My brother and I share a basement apartment in the suburbs with my aunt and my bro was recently diagnosed with psychosis. I told some trusted people in the Ward (with his permission, of course), so they could know what was going on and help if needed. It's really been a struggle.

However, the information didn't stay confidential and now most of the ward knows, including the Bishop and his counselors. People are always like "I'll just tell my visiting teachers and maybe they can help" even though I said to keep it between us.

I was at Church last week with my aunt and someone in the ward said, "So, I heard about [name]. You know you can't cure psychotics, right?"

I told her that he's been taking medication and it's slowly, but surely started to help and he's under the direct control of a doctor.

But, this person said something like, "There's still no actual cure. There's something wrong in his brain, where he can't feel sadness or love." I can't remember the exact words of the last part she said, but it was something about wanting me to talk to the Bishop and see how to best go about it, since my brother is apparently incapable of spirituality or feelings(?) and prayer wouldn't work.

Not sure what she was trying to get at. I kind of sat there befuddled. Wasn't really in the mood to talk to her that day.

This Ward already has a lot of drama, so I'm worried that people are blowing this up, too. My brother is still a functioning human being who happens to suffer from mental illness. I don't get why taking medication and acknowledging a problem makes you incapable of love or spirituality.

I would think twice and then three times about sharing such highly sensitive information with insensitive folks. Let's hope the gossip doesn't hinder the recovery.

Well I'm sure what is going on with that person in your ward. She's insensitive, rude, and hurtful. So many Mormons have no boundaries. Perhaps there is something wrong with her brain actually, where she can't feel sadness,love, understanding, or compassion. She has overdosed on Mormonism and nothing can be done for her except to make her Relief Society President which isn't a cure but will keep her occupied hopefully.

Good luck to you and your brother and the doctors.

>> But, this person said something like, "There's still no actual cure. There's something wrong in his brain, where he can't feel sadness or love."

She's talking about something else altogether -- sociopathy. This could ruin your brother's reputation in the ward.

In the future, do not share sensitive information with ward members unless you want it shared far and wide. That includes the bishop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2017 06:46PM by summer.

> However, the information didn't stay confidential...

No surprise there. "Thou shalt gossip about everyone" is the mormon 11th commandment.

Her comment that "prayer wouldn't work" was interesting. Seems she doesn't believe her Elohim is all-powerful. How about that, a tiny dose of reality.

The really bad part of this is that your brother's personal, confidential, private information is now known by a bunch of know-nothing ignorant ward people, many of whom will (like the person you mentioned) think they know what you should do. And they'll treat him differently, of course. Asshats.

don't talk to anybody in this ward. act like noting is wrong with your brother. your brother has got it under control and leave it to that. you can never trust tbms, because to them if something is wrong, it's because your not following Mormonism good enough. I understand you have to go to this church because of your aunt.

try to separate yourself some what from this people, don't give them any interviews, or do anything they say. just do what you have to keep your aunt happy

Ki_3....I am putting this under frankie because what he/she said is absolutely correct. The idiots at your Ward have confused "psychosis" with "psycopathic"... Totally different meanings. Unfortunately your aunt probably expects you to go to church because you're staying in her home. See if there's a singles ward you and your brother can go to so auntie will be happy and you can get away from the poisonous atmosphere of the ward you're going to. And for heavens sake keep your personal problems to yourself at your new Ward. There is nothing they can do to help. They have no training and will only make things worse. Make sure your brother takes his Meds.

"What?? You're a medical doctor and this is your office?? I don't think so."

Then turn on your heel and walk away.

Church is not the place to discuss this, especially with rude hacks who don't know what they're saying.

If you want to keep a secret

Telephone

Telagraph

Telabishop



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2017 07:12PM by desertman.

I have to put the blame on you. I know that sounds harsh, but think about it -you trusted MORmONS to keep a secret, in an instance where normal people are a huge risk for spreading around the information, information that you divulged.

MORmONISM is the secret handshake (there is something that MORmONS will not talk about, mostly because it is so damn dumb, was that what fooled you into thinking that MORmONS could keep a secret?) social club. Social clubs are all about monitoring and speculating on what is going on with others. That has a lot to do with why I do not like social clubs. And just as a previous poster so duly noted, MORmONISM is a social club that is especially adept at churning up gossip, which has a lot to do with why I hate the MORmON church.

Your best bet around social clubs is to be as tight lipped as possible. Even more so with the MORmON secret handshake social club.

.....maybe IF your brother improves enough, then he can get to the point where he is compassionate enough to snidely mass insult the church's missionaries, apparently it takes a spiritual giant to do that, according to those that worshiped Gordon BS Hinckley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuN_ZDJKkPo

OK, that was the long and demonstrative way around to the second point which is that not only do MORmONS talk a lot, most of what they say is meaningless crap as well.

Making a mistake isn't unethical.

What this ward member did was extremely unkind and unethical.

Absolutely agree with Cheryl as an all-encompassing principle.

There are plenty of realities people don't know about until they've encountered them. Experience is a great teacher, it is said. Exactly.

Like I didn't know the respected teacher who came to my home to tutor me for upcoming exams crucial to my career would chase me around the house, laughing "you don't need textbooks", rather than teaching me the finer points of chemistry, as promised and planned.

Like I didn't expect that accepting a friend's dinner invitation would include "accidentally" meeting Mormon missionaries, that ended in me so ill-advisedly joining the freakin' church.

Like I didn't realize that lying for the Lord is a prevalent Mormon teaching/practice that tied my brain up in knots because it was so outside my realm of experience and truly bizarre.

Who just automatically comprehends that in Mormonism the concept of confidentiality is non-existent? The norms of the outside world, where many people have boundaries and view privacy as a principle to be upheld, are not obviously present inside the Mormon Church where personal information is freely shared with everyone. So who would know that, until they experience that their expectations are not fulfilled in Mormonism, in many more ways than this.

To the OP, there are some excellent comments above that I hope will help you. I like the idea of finding a different ward, if that is a possibility for you and your brother. Of course, that doesn't mean his info won't get transferred there. Maybe, if you're stuck in this ward it would be a case of having to talk to the RS Prez and the bishop and telling them what happened, straightening out the error in understanding (psychosis is a general term and not equivalent to being a psychopath, if that's what some people think, as said above). This is only if you must stay there; if you can transfer, great. If you wouldn't have to go at all, even better, but I gather that's not possible.

I also agree to stay general in future, don't tell anyone anything as people there just do not observe the privacy principle - to be fair, this can also be an issue outside Mormonism, but within it is an epidemic.

I hope you and your brother can work it out. All the best to you both.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2017 01:12PM by Nightingale.

smirkorama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to put the blame on you. I know that
> sounds harsh, but think about it -you trusted
> MORmONS to keep a secret, in an instance where
> normal people are a huge risk for spreading around
> the information, information that you divulged.
>
> MORmONISM is the secret handshake (there is
> something that MORmONS will not talk about,
> mostly because it is so damn dumb, was that what
> fooled you into thinking that MORmONS could keep a
> secret?) social club. Social clubs are all about
> monitoring and speculating on what is going on
> with others. That has a lot to do with why I do
> not like social clubs. And just as a previous
> poster so duly noted, MORmONISM is a social club
> that is especially adept at churning up gossip,
> which has a lot to do with why I hate the MORmON
> church.
>
> Your best bet around social clubs is to be as
> tight lipped as possible. Even more so with the
> MORmON secret handshake social club.
>
> .....maybe IF your brother improves enough, then
> he can get to the point where he is compassionate
> enough to snidely mass insult the church's
> missionaries, apparently it takes a spiritual
> giant to do that, according to those that
> worshiped Gordon BS Hinckley.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuN_ZDJKkPo
>
> OK, that was the long and demonstrative way around
> to the second point which is that not only do
> MORmONS talk a lot, most of what they say is
> meaningless crap as well.

Whew1 I usually just scroll past your comments, Smirk, because it becomes too tedious(annoying) reading your constant caps highlighting MORON from the word, Mormon. However, skimming past the obvious source of my annoyance, I agree with your first paragraph :)

That's ridiculous; don't you believe it---that your brother is incapable of spirituality or benefiting from prayer.

Mental illness is awful, since it involves your brain--mind, emotions as well as your physical body, and finding the right balance of meds, getting help with social skills, etc. that may need special work since sometimes the person does not "get" social cues as easily as "most people." (As an aside, I hate the phrase, "most people.")

Anyway, stigma about mental illness is very common, not just in churches. There are some advocacy groups and support groups that may help. There's a wonderful magazine called bphope which has an online site; I think it might be helpful even if the particular form of illness is not bi-polar. There may be other groups/magazines, etc. for other specific diagnoses; look online and also ask his doctor. Social support can be very helpful in lots of ways.

The word ignorance means "not knowing"---and ignorance can add such a painful burden to a person already suffering from the ailment itself---even if harm was not intended.

One of the things people with mental illness have to learn as they begin to heal is how to deal with stigma, because like it or not, it's there.

Your support and understanding are important; how wonderful for him to have you for his brother.

Re medical confidentiality

If this is ....... Jeeze. What an outcome / for him to recover in. Who thought giving his diagnosis out in conversations he wasn't part of was an acceptable idea?

I think he needs to move and whoever is his authorized power of attorney can determine who to sue

Medical privacy rights anyone!

If you tell your neighbor, ward member, home teacher, etc. about your medical condition or someone else's.....they aren't legally required to maintain medical confidentiality.

It's not against the law to gossip, even if it's about someone's medical issues. Unless you're a doctor:)

HIPAA (correct spelling of the acronym) does not apply outside of licensed medical facilities. But you are right that the overriding ethical principal is that something told in confidence to an acknowledged authority should not be disclosed to anyone who wants to hear something juicy.

Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

Ben Franklin.

"There's still no actual cure."

"I'm sorry, I believe you're thinking of *stupidity*..."


That's the first thing that popped into my head.

I have a physical chronic illness that isn't obvious when you're looking at me. I've been dealing with this for 20 years.

The number one thing i've learned is: People who haven't had this illness are very ignorant and judgmental about it. They do and say terrible things. They aren't one iota interested in educating themselves about it. They have preconceived notions that they insist are right. They don't think I know anything about my own illness. They get downright vile and nasty when they learn what my medications are. This includes nurses and others in the medical community.

The very best thing to do is NOT ever discuss any medical conditions with anyone except your DR. I can't tell you how important this is. Even after 20 years, I have family members who are gossiping and judging me behind my back. They just don't get it. It's very difficult to wrap ones mind around the fact that others don't know, care, or event want to. They have their own ideas and they stick with it no matter how sick or miserable you are. I only talk about my illness to people that I pay to take care of my medical situation. Period.

Please know that this is your brothers situation. You cannot expect others to understand what he's dealing with. Keep your conversations limited to his medical providers and him. Otherwise, he and maybe you will pay a huge price.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2017 11:00PM by janis.

That's been my experience too. It really is difficult to imagine what it might be like to have a hidden chronic illness== (and there are quite a few of them, and I so admire the courage of those who have them and keep on getting up and doing life with a great attitude==while further burdened by the callous attitudes and remarks of healthy, energetic people who think they have a right to judge and look down on the person who is struggling with a disease they didn't choose while being called things like lazy or worse.

Kudos to you for your courage; you inspire me and I'm sure others who know what you are really doing.

Dear relieved to learn,

Thank you SO much for your excellent and very on point post- it is most appreciated.

I am bipolar as well and have been since my mid-teens, however was never properly diagnosed until age 32.

Although my involvement with Mormonism was very short lived (only 4-5 months), I'm still resolving several issues and am so grateful to have found this board. It has truly helped my in so many ways, even after being out of the cult for almost five years,IMHO,Mormonism is a mind fuck of the highest order.

As several folks have so clearly pointed out, there is truly, even in 2017, a very misunderstood stigma regarding mental illness,so much of it based on fear, ignorance and lack of education and research.

Mental illness is just that- an illness. Seriously, diabetes, heart disease. glaucoma, etc, etc, etc, are also diseases, yet folks are not anywhere near afraid of them (and many others), as they are of mental illness. It is such a shame that this kind of fear and ignorance still exists, especially with research abounding, especially with the Internet and other available resources.

Never in a million years, would I have ever discussed ANY illness, mental or otherwise in the ward in which I was a member, long or short time. NO WAY...

Again relieved to learn, thank you so very much for sharing your experience, and particularly for referencing the 'bphope'magazine and its website. I have never been aware of it, and intend on looking it up immediately.

Very sincere and warmest regards <3

Cyn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2017 11:58PM by cynful.

right on, and you are most welcome.

Thank you for the encouragement! <3

Tell that busybody that "With GAWD all things are possible. Why is your faith so weak?"

That'll shut 'em up.

OP, I know how difficult and frightening it can be to live with someone who has a brain illness. I know you were reaching out for support, with your brother's permission, so please ignore the rude "privacy" and "HIPPA" responses from those who have reading comprehension challenges.

Mormons are not very different from anyone else in the average population when it comes to coping with brain illnesses. They don't know much about it, as demonstrated by the member who confused "psychotic" with "psychopathic." That's no small difference.

You are in far too stressed a situation to worry about making witty retorts to the ignorant, and the cat is out of the bag, so you may as well be forthright and informative, when needed. You can help your brother by lessening the ignorance in his sphere. Make sure your aunt is informed, so that she is not frightened or caught off guard. A firm, "You have no idea what your talking about" is all she needs to say to the bs, uninformed comments that may come her way.

I take it that you are younger and stronger than she, and you may want to follow up a more gentle retort with a couple of brief lines of additional information.

I agree that at some point you may need support, and if you can't arrange to have trained help on call, the ignorant, general populace is all you have. That's why I'm a proponent of spreading valid information, to help drown out the nasty, ignorant gossip.

Bear in mind that when you told a few people in aim of support, they likely started asking others for advice, the internet being the devil and all. I don't necessarily believe that their intent was to "betray" your confidence, but more a symptom of reaching out just as you did, then compounded by Mormon boundary issues.

I wouldn't get all bent out of shape over it, but I would help to quash ignorance with information.

I'd also like to suggest that you find a local support group for yourself, and your aunt if she's up to it and willing, - if you don't already have one. The people there will have a network of support resources and ideas to share with you.

Your brother should already be in a support group, and if not, contact his doctor's office for help in finding one.

Remember to take care of and be gentle with yourself. Your brother is fortunate to have you and your aunt, so you and she need breaks to help stave off burn-out. Constant vigilence can wear you down.

My best to you and your family.

I agree; all good advice.

relievedtolearn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree; all good advice.

Ditto!

The best advice mydevout Mormon father told me was to never divulge anything to a Bishop that you wouldn't announce in F&T meeting. There is nothing "private" in Mormonism.

Wise advice from your dad.

Ki_3, I am so sorry you have to suffer from the remarks of thoughtless, clueless people. They are insufferable.

I include the poster who said "It is your fault...(thus and so)"

No one is born knowing how to deal with adversities, and we certainly don't need advise (or profit by) numbskulls.

Form your best response as to what to say to such crude persons, so you will be ready next time (and, unhappily, there likely will be a next time).

(For instance, "Only a crude person such as your self would presume they have a right to say such a thoughtless, un-knowledgeable, and cruel thing", then turn and walk away.)

Best Wishes.

Lesson Learned: It seems that one can only hold a secret as long as one doesn't tell anyone else about it. (Sad, but true.)

I think 100% of the population knows that.

This is about human decency and compassion which is destroyed by nasty gossip. What a sad state humanity would be in if they only did good when it was forced on them legally.

Psychosis is only a problem in our culture. Some indigenous cultures take it as a sign of special gifts and make these people shamans. I'd look up that angle. As for your ward, if they're so smart, why are they Mormons?