Seems to me that a testimony is superficially good for the church, in that it can be quickly come by, but in the longer term is a problem because it is a weak connection compared with faith.

Of course all this depends upon what ones definition of testimony and faith are.

Here's my view;
A testimony is a good feeling of some sort that what you are enquiring about is correct. Hence it is emotional as opposed to factual. A testimony is a sub-set of faith.

Faith on the other hand comes about because of a lifetime of experiences which are both factual and emotional. For example I have never been to South Africa but I have faith it real and exists. I learned about it at school, it is on maps, A Qantas jet flies off there on a regular basis, I have met people who have been there, and others who haven't but firmly believe it is there, and so on and so on. There is also a small emotional attachment to it through my grandfather who fought there in the Boar war. In the case of having faith your wife loves you has a much greater emotional component.

Seems to me that faith is far more resilient that testimony, because it is made up of lots of elements, where as testimony is not. When one of those elements is questioned or found to be untrue, it is only a chink in the armour where as when one is faced with an undeniable fact, a testimony will either be sustained or lost.

I think this is one of the reasons so many are leaving the Mormon religion when faced with facts inconsistent with their testimony.

Cheers

It's hard to explain to someone what a "testimony" is. You have said it perfectly !!

outin76 Wrote:

> I think this is one of the reasons so many are
> leaving the Mormon religion when faced with facts
> inconsistent with their testimony.
>
> Cheers

You've given another take on cognitive dissonance. Search that term, or "cog dis" or other variations on this forum, and lots of people have had lots to say on that.

Cheerio!

I got your testimony right here *grabs crotch*.

Thanks for posting this. That's something I've come to realize recently and think about. So here are some rambling thoughts that have been rattling around my brain on the subject.

For Mormons, it seems that one's testimony and one's faith are essentially synonymous. When an LDS person talks about their faith, this is not some nebulous hope that the future will be better--somehow. Nope. Their faith is a specific set of ideas about Joseph Smith, "the Church," Book of Mormon etc.

Think about Thomas Monson's remarks that he would not let science destroy his faith.

If your idea of faith is a general hopefulness that helps you get through the day to day, bridge the gap from what we don't know and are unable to ascertain using conventional means, then you're faith really isn't that vulnerable to scientific scrutiny. As noted in the original post, it is derived from one's emotional experiences and aspirations. We can be aware that faith is derived from those feelings, and consequently be aware of the limitations of faith.

But if you have a bunch of very specific, testable propositions that constitute one's faith like Mormonism puts forward, then it is completely vulnerable to destruction by scientific observation.

And yet, sometimes when a Mormon feels you are attacking their faith it is not those propositions, but their sense of hope. Perhaps that's one of the reasons we feel adrift after "losing" our testimonies. We have to build a new mental framework that allows us to experience hope and joy.

I don't think you've defined "faith" above.
I think you've defined one variety of "belief."

More usually, "faith" is defined as belief *without* any facts or experience or evidence. It's that absolutely unknowing but unwaveringly firm belief that defines "faith," and it's what is revered in religious circles. Belief without facts. Belief without evidence. Belief just because.

Frankly, I see no value in either testimony OR "faith."
Others might...but I don't. Neither should be "convincing" to anyone.

"There are those who scoff at the school boy, calling him frivolous and shallow. Yet it was the school boy who said, Faith is believing what you know ain't so." - Mark Twain

WOW, outin76; BRAVO!!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2017 04:14PM by relievedtolearn.

In my opinion Testimony is a statement of something that you know to be factual. Faith is a belief in something that cannot be otherwise proven

desertman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my opinion Testimony is a statement of
> something that you know to be factual. Faith is a
> belief in something that cannot be otherwise
> proven

Bingo.
And since mormon "testimony" isn't something they know to be factual, but is instead an incorrectly-worded statement of "faith," it's not a testimony at all.

In court, when a witness is called to the stand, they "testify" and are sworn that they will tell the truth. In this case, a testimony is bearing the truth. Testimonies in church are given by people who think what they're saying is true, but it is not. Church testimonies, IMO, are to reinforce faith, not truth, not facts.