Apparently, since my leaving the church 8 years ago, my parents and siblings have decided that all family activities must involve church. The only time we get together is when someone is being blessed, baptized, ordained, etc. I recently discovered through Facebook that they all get together at least twice a month to go out to dinner and the temple. I had no idea. I've never even been invited to meet them for dinner. Yesterday, my mother called to get my advice on a situation with my grandmother, and informed me that she wouldn't be around this weekend because the whole family was going down to Manti to visit the temple this weekend. Again, I was never invited or included in any way. Trying not to feel hurt, but how can I not? I'm a good person. I'm a college-educated professional that takes care of others for a living. I don't understand why I'm not good enough.

" I don't understand why I'm not good enough."

Because you're not in the cult. That's how cult members are supposed to treat non-cult members.

An idea: Ask them when and where they're meeting for dinner, and invite yourself along. Acknowledge you're not going to the temple, but tell them in a friendly and positive way you plan to join them. Try and steer the conversation to genuinely family things, such as who's well, who's sick, who's doing what at home or work, etc. Be patient when they talk religion, and don't argue. Just let it pass.

It will be awkward, and there may be resistance, but I think it's worth trying, even if you're rebuffed the first few times.

I can't do that because I'm never invited. My mom told me they don't tell me about it because they don't want to hurt my feelings. I find out later through pictures on Facebook or when I'm asked to take care of my grandma because everyone else will be out of town together. Hard not to be hurt and lash out. I'm so tired of all of it.

It was just an idea. What inspired it was when I was in early recovery, and I noticed there was a clique of savvy and sober people who went out for a meal afterwards. I just followed them to the parking lot and got in somebody's car. After a few times, I sort of belonged.

Perhaps the frontal attack? Tell them outright, your feelings ARE hurt, and you resent being excluded and relegated to caretaker for grandma--that responsibility can be rotated. Remind them (1) you are part of the family and (2) you will mind your business on religious matters. (Which will be a challenge, as they are likely to use it as a weapon. Hmmm..."weaponized theology." There's a new term! But I digress.)

Another idea: meet up with one or two of them on other occasions, say, lunch, or an end-of-the-day lemonade, ice cream, or shopping. Perhaps piecemeal you can be reintegrated into the family. That would be a long game, I'm sure.

The main thing is to actually demonstrate the ideals they claim to practice.

"when I'm asked to take care of my grandma because everyone else will be out of town together"

IOW, they only make contact when they want something (free labor) from you. You're shunned at all other times. Oh no, that's not a one-sided relationship at all. </s>

If you were to go, you'd be forced to listen to them drone on about church church temple blah blah church temple church blah church until you wanted to jam toothpicks through your eardrums.

Still, they use you and take advantage of you because, well, you've been allowing it, and now they're used to it. Unless and until you demand reciprocity and respect, you'll remain nothing more than an afterthought in their tiny mormon minds.

Next time, as hard as it may seem, when asked you are unavailable to sit with Grandma. Say you would be pleased to join them for dinner and schedule long term-months in advance-who will sit and who will attend dinner. If they balk then you have your desired answer. You are not desired. Avoid like the plague in that case

Gatorman
Been exactly there

Mom, is there some reason I cant join you for dinner? Of course, I wont go to the temple, but I would like to see you. I am sure we can find.something to discuss that we all would enjoy.

Repeat after me: "No, I won't be sitting with Grandma while you go to the temple and to dinner."

Repeat it again: "No, I'm busy."

Again: "No, I won't change my plans."

When questioned, ignore the question (It isn't the right question) and repeat the right answer: "No, I won't be sitting with Grandma while you go to dinner and the temple."

This is called the "broken record" technique in assertiveness training.

You have plans. You are a person, too. You don't have to explain the details of your personal plans, any more than they will explain the details of their secret temple rituals to you. It works both ways.

Why doesn't Grandma go to the temple? I'm sure she feels left out of the dinner, too. If she's in good health, you could turn it around and take Grandma to dinner, on a day and time convenient for you, or bring her take-out, and have a nice visit with her at home. I loved talking to my Grandma, and having a root beer float in her kitchen, and playing the piano with her. She had a great sense of humor, had 9 children, was an avid reader, and and had traveled all over the world. She has been gone for 20 years. Her birthday is coming up, and I wish I could be with her again! Together, you and your grandma both would have a much more "family-oriented", interesting time than the temple offers--no one is allowed to talk in there! Just nod and chant and dress and undress and dress again. The temple experiences would make very boring dinner conversation.

They probably hate the temple, and don't want you to get away with the fun of dinner, without enduring the suffering of the temple session, first. Ya gotta chant for your supper. I don't understand why you want to go at all.

You should be happy that you're too good for them. They'd be using their awful church to surrogate-parent you too. Poor kids, they'd be better around crack whores (no offense, ladies).

I take that since grandma must be sat, that she lives with one of them. It likely means that you would be "forcing" your company on (your parents?) to try to visit with her during non-temple times, just for the sake of the visit.

I'm sorry that you're hurting, but it also means that you're viewing your family more objectively, which is personal growth. I know the experience, and it is painful.

I say good for you that you are realizing that they are users, and that you are on the "use" list. What a crock of crap that "they" "don't want to hurt your feelings." If that were the case, you would be included. It's not rocket science, and it means that you're also on the "safe to ignore and lie to" list.

Here's the next thing to understand, to try to embrace: It's not about you. Any family member who deviates from the dysfuntion which binds them together will be rejected. It doesn't matter what the dysfunction is, or which family member rejects the dysfunction. If that member stops playing the assigned role to keep the "family illusions" going, that member is out. If that member is no longer faking right along with them, that member is dangerous to the illusion.

It's not like they don't know that the illusion is embarrassing, in front of those who no longer believe in this particualar delusion. They know full well the very high prices they pay for it, in terms of time, (real) time with family, money and work. You are a vision of freedom, and you dropping the illusion didn't cause any of the predicted life catastrophies. You belie the fraudulent foundation of the only reason they have to remain together, and that is an in-your-face truth from which they must run, must hide.

Shunning is not about you. It's about holding the fragile lies together.

Your response to it is all about you. How you deal with dysfuntional behavior is a choice. You may want to give yourself some time and space to think it through.

finding me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Here's the next thing to understand, to try to
> embrace: It's not about you. Any family member
> who deviates from the dysfuntion which binds them
> together will be rejected. It doesn't matter what
> the dysfunction is, or which family member rejects
> the dysfunction. If that member stops playing the
> assigned role to keep the "family illusions"
> going, that member is out. If that member is no
> longer faking right along with them, that member
> is dangerous to the illusion.
>
> It's not like they don't know that the illusion is
> embarrassing, in front of those who no longer
> believe in this particualar delusion. They know
> full well the very high prices they pay for it, in
> terms of time, (real) time with family, money and
> work. You are a vision of freedom, and you
> dropping the illusion didn't cause any of the
> predicted life catastrophies. You belie the
> fraudulent foundation of the only reason they have
> to remain together, and that is an in-your-face
> truth from which they must run, must hide.
>
> Shunning is not about you. It's about holding the
> fragile lies together.
>

Beautifully said, finding me.

Shunning is insipid in its purpose; devastating in its execution.

Stay strong my friend. Our thoughts are with you. -edz

I agree with the others. Tell your family that you want to (and expect to) be included for dinner at least monthly. Tell several of them that, not just your mom. If they can't follow through on that, then you are no longer available to sit with grandma while they have their exclusive get-togethers. Have other plans, even if those plans are just watching Netflix. Don't let them use you for their convenience. I would also make a note of this for other family issues as they arise. You can bet that they will expect you to be the temple babysitter for weddings, and when your mom needs elder care, guess who they will call?

I would also plan to host your own family events periodically, and see how that goes. Have them all over for a buffet dinner, a cookout, a picnic, or plan a day at the amusement park, the mini golf, the water park, etc. Show them what a non-churchy family event looks like.

It's obvious shunning to me.

Until you return "to the fold," you aren't going to be included.

It's your parents form of 'tough love.'

That's what it looks like to me based on your description.

Wow, that's got to hurt.

Could you try having a heart to heart with your mom or dad to see if they'd reconsider including you for the dinners?

That would be asserting yourself. Then you'd get a better idea if it's deliberate or an oversight. Again, it doesn't sound like an oversight at all, but until you have a heart to heart at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

Your family (brainwashed as they are) do not want you to be uncomfortable...while they go out to eat and talk church, go to the temple(s), and talk church, then gather at whoever's house....and talk church.

Believe it or not, they are being somewhat considerate of your feelings by not putting you in an awkward position and you feeling left out while amongst them.....while they talk church.


IMO, you should be thankful..

Do you REALLY want to be around them at a restaurant (where you might drink or at least want to drink)...and them all judging you......while they talk church.


If there are a few family members you would like to socialize with, so if you can plan separate activities with just them...away from temple church night.

I disagree that this is about them not wanting ElizaSnow to feel uncomfortable. Just the opposite - they aren't comfortable with a non-believer present because they won't "feel the spirit" sitting across the table from someone who doubts.

Yep all that good mojo they got at the temple will be whisked away if the afterglow is ruined by associating with a non-worthy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2017 10:42AM by lillium.

"they aren't comfortable with a non-believer present because they won't "feel the spirit" sitting across the table from someone who doubts."

I can't argue w/that...but I still take it as some (very) small semblance of empathy/concern maybe??...not really just for E.S.J. but more for themselves...

My Mormon parents never invited my son to do anything with them, even when they lived in the same town. They do things for their Mormon grandchildren in Utah. Even providing housing.

This is one of the reasons I hate Mormonism.

They don't invite you because you are not worthy. Thy know you are a good and dependable person, that's why you are asked to watch grandma. But that does not make you worthy of their company. Sadly it will never change. I know this hurts but that is a fact. You can talk to mom or anyone else but it will do no good. She will tell the others and they will see you as a sad, lonely person (which is your own fault for turning against god... the church) so they will only feel sorry for you not understanding. Your name will be added (again) to the temple prayer roll.

They will never understand or really care. It's your own fault and this the repercussions for leaving the church. All of which is BS, but to them it's how they think and believe. I feel your pain and wish I had a better answer. you can except things as they are and move on or continue to let it eat at you. I don't know how to stop that hurt feeling, but it is something you will need to figure out or it's going to eat you alive.

Basically, either except their cruelty and continue to watch grandma when "needed" and focus on being there for her & make the best of time with her and move on with your life or give them all the finger and move on.

Your not the bad person, they are. You are being as Christ taught, they are not.