First, Eric, there are exceptions to every "living" rule, and whatever instinct led you to leave the post up, well in my book you are human, but I very much trust your instincts and decisions.

Second, when I read the OP's postings, and got down to the "tick" question, I thought, "Ah, yes, the mirror." It was the silent question behind the screen name and first post. The OP has been lurking, and wants to know how so much love, humor and community can be had by exmos.

That we are not in fact demonic must present a terrible cog dis. That we do not dwell in fear as the OP does, seemed to be the primary fear of the OP. How did we lose fear of Satan, yet not succumb to "his ways?"

The OP has been erroneously taught that exmos are one short death-step away from outer darkness, so why are exmos so fearless?

The OP lives in a world of inner darkness, where the inability to question and constant fear has burned down to one answer: faith. There is nothing on which to rely, no answers to the lies of LDS, no obviously "true" revelations from those who profit so heavily from "propheting" nothing, while living off of the sweat and blood of the poor.

The OP had no words, no tools to ask, "What makes me tick? What is faith?" Straight-forward questioning is not done.

The circular reasoning is beginning to crack, and there is only "us" who will tell the truth, "we" who have refused to be hammered in fear by those who would use and abuse us. We know the process.

Yes, having no other tools, the OP preached, but to me, the larger part of the posts were all about doubt. My only suggestion or answer to the OP would be to keep reading.

Finally, Eric, I understand the desire and courtesy, but you owe no one here apology. I may be wrong, but I saw what I think you may have seen, a doubter, someone learning to ask questions. There are thousands of "answers" as to exmos from LDS, yet those, all that smoke, did not satisfy.

One must wonder about that.

Thank you for leaving it up, being the kind soul that you are, and trying to please so many with only one brain and two hands. Humans are the "miracles" in which I have faith.

I won't "be offended" if you nix this thread, or if I'm wrong about why you left it up, but I just wanted to offer my support of your choice.

I don't know where else to put this, so I'll just drop this comment here and carry on my merry way.

I think it's very interesting how I believe I'm recovered from the damage mormonism caused me, psychologically and emotionally. And then I read something like that thread and feel that white hot rage welling up again and I realize, maybe I haven't recovered at all. Or maybe I haven't recovered as much as I thought I had. Because if I was really recovered, would I get so angry every time some fucking mormon posts their bullshit? That guy was doing what I call "concern trolling." He claimed he was just trying to understand, but clearly he wasn't -- he was here to prosletyze. He wasn't asking questions; he was clearly just posting bits of his testimony, which I couldn't even give two fucks about. I do not care what some rando on the internet believes.

Anyway, maybe I'm the only person who was a bit triggered by that thread. I'm sorry I read it. Now I'll be grumpy and mean all day.

for such a "loving family centered" church, the OP demonstrated the cruelity of the org. With both parents now dead (mom due to heartbreak, dad recently due to old age), I don't have to make it work with my sibling.

SCREW MY SISTER and her loving church.

I had two concerns:

1.) Overruling another admin. They do a great job and I do not wish to question their judgement. I do not always agree, yet I rarely overrule. I realize my perspective may be different and a post that may be offensive to others is not one to me, so I support their decisions.

2.) The original poster did not seem to be one who was seriously questioning. He was here to condemn employing typical Morg speak. I have deleted countless emails over the years from TBMs like him. They are boring and repetitive. He, in my opinion as well as the admin who deleted him originally, felt him lacking any sincerity or desire to learn even though he claimed he was trying. We do not wish to make this a debate board. If a TBM is sincere, there are many who will respond to sincere requests. This was not one of them. My thinking in overruling was to demonstrate to non-Mormons, who are passing by, how the original poster was a quintessential unquestioning Mormon.

Here is the closed thread:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1989017

Right -- it's one thing to hear about typical Morg thought patterns from other board members, and quite another to get it straight from the horse's mouth.

I think my overriding impression with this poster was how strongly the Mormon church indoctrinates its members. I was hoping that we could put a few chinks in his wall, but it's a very strong wall built up over many years.

dogzilla nailed it. "Recovered" is an odd thing to consider yourself in this instance because no matter what I have come to terms with, no matter what I have learned or processed, my memory will never be erased and my memory is not a scar, but an important record. And so I have my triggers and can relive my narrow escape now and then. And, I will always have at the forefront of my mind what the drivel being spouted by the Mormons is doing to our youth.

One trigger is the phrase, " I am sorry you had a bad experience." What a condescending ignorant ploy that is. Yes. It is unfathomable to me to think of having no reaction to that.
But the good news is the reaction is disgust, not guilt or shame as intended.

Eric K thank you. I like getting all fired up once in a while.

No, YOU nailed it! ;-)

I think you are spot on with the triggering phrase being, "I'm sorry you had a bad experience."

Because that was exactly the sentence I read that made me super angry. I want to grab that guy by the shoulders, shake him really hard, and scream all this in his face:

"Bad experience? Bad experience? AYFKM? I did everything I was told to do. I was the president of my MIA Maid class. I attended Seminary every single stinkin' day. Yet, a priesthood holder in good standing with a current temple recommend raped me. Repeatedly. For an entire summer. AND I GOT PUNISHED. How is that Christ-like? Where is there forgiveness? Why is there no grace? This (the punishment, not the rape) was not the action of a single person in the church who was a "bad example." This is the action of a bishopric who got down on their knees and prayed about how to handle my situation and they claimed GOD TOLD THEM that 15-year-old girls are responsible for letting themselves get raped so I should be punished. Despite being obedient to the priesthood holder, which is what I was taught to do. So how is that just my bad experience? How is that me projecting my desire to sin?"

I can't even tell you how pissed off I am right now. Words fail me. How dare this motherfucker imply that a 15-year-old rape victim was just bitter because, what, I wanted to drink beer or some shit?

TL; DR: It's not about doctrine. It's not about the church is perfect but people are not. It's the whole goddamn system.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2017 11:23AM by dogzilla.

What happened to you was inexcusable. I hope he reads your post. We will keep Mormon testimonies and condescending posts here to a minimum. This needs to be a safe place.

Thank you.

It never occurs to these people that real damage is done sometimes. It's so condescending to pity me for my desire to sin or my desire to want an easier life.


But the best revenge is living well and finally living a life of integrity. Because when you reach that point, you can condescend right back. As you sip on a cocktail at the beach in your new bikini, admiring your new tattoo some glorious Sunday afternoon. Those are the moments when I feel really sorry for mormons because they have no idea how imprisoned and pathetic their lives are and how much more joyful and fulfilling it can be...

;>)

That puts me in a rage for and in your behalf.

"Sorry you had a bad experience!" He might as well have smashed you the face with a nail studded two by four rather than say that and it would have been less painful.

Mormons really know how to compound the damage they do. Then they will say, "Here let me comfort you" as they twist the knife in your back. So glad you got out.

I find it irritating when TBMs equate "the gospel" with Mormonism. The gospel was around for about 1,800 years before Mormonism came along.

He also seems to feel that the gospel/Mormonism is the only thing that keeps him (and by extension everyone else) from going off the rails, especially with regard to what he referred to as carnal desires. Since he didn't seem overly concerned with WoW issues, I have to assume that he was talking about sex. You have to wonder what his exact concerns are.

And his apologetics for Joseph Smith are just revolting.

Because the TBMs virtually all sound the same using the same passive-aggressive and clueless language. It's like talking to a child that believes the moon is made of green cheese and that men have one less rib than women.

When I talk about my experiences in the cult with nevermos, their responses are something to the effect of , "I'm sorry you had to deal with/go through that. It sounds awful." Usually nothing that indicates *I* was to blame for those experiences.

It doesn't bring up rage so much as eyes moving skyward and a chuckle. I'm more concerned about exmos that display typically Mormony characteristics, don't want to examine a little bit further than leaving the cult, and are comfortable in their ignorance, especially after what I've watched go down on FB in the last few weeks.

I can see both sides, why it was left up and why it needed to come down. Personally, I think it's good for some people to see how they used to sound and how far they've come along, but for others, I can see how it feels re-traumatizing.

I don't like reading TBM posts about how they can't understand the exmos' opinions.

Others seem to enjoy the back and forth. So it certainly doesn't hurt to let a TBM have his say occasionally.

I'd only be really bothered if this kind of interchange overwhelmed conversations regularly.

I don't think that TBM wanted to "understand." He seemed to be trying to plant TBM seeds to get us back into his church. That's a waste since none of us want to be there.

I wish only that it had been left open for another 15-20 minutes. I (and no doubt others) was preparing a reply to his latest drivel when the thread was abruptly closed. In my view it would have been satisfying to end the conversation with TBM-OP being ripped multiple new ones, rather than with his inane little testimony. We should always have the last word.

uh....

I'm not seeing "several". I saw "within the hour" and then "now". Can you help me with timestamps of Eric's warnings?

Thanks.

I was so disgusted with his last post I closed it earlier than planned. I am tired of Mormon testimonies. If there is an overwhelming feeling of responding to him, I can reopen it. I just don't want to stress those who were so adversely affected by this poster.

Sitting on the porch watching for our summer Friday tornado as previous tornadoes all occurred on a Friday. We have a tornado watch now. I am currently having a mint julep, which is an excellent summer drink here in the South.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2017 06:41PM by Eric K.

For me, it was both interesting and amusing to read this TBM's post. There was a show on tv that revealed the different tricks of magicians and how they accomplish the slight of hand. Beforehand, it was so fascinating to try to figure out how they could make the impossible happen. Then you see reality and the truth and it's like, oh my gosh! It was there in front of me all the time and I just couldn't see it! The post brought back some anger, but then it quickly dissipated when I realized that this person is really digging in their heels and one day, they'll dig in so hard that they'll come toppling over to here.

When you've bought into the jargon and indoctrination of the Mormon cult, it is very natural for the Mopologist to excuse, rationalize, and justify everything the church tells them to think and to do.

How else can they reason with themselves, other than convincing themselves it isn't?

It is the standard for Mormons, by which all other religions, ideologies, or dogmas fall short.

If they only dug a little deeper than the surface they would soon learn that type of thinking is consistent with cults, not pure religion.

Reading the member's post assured me that I am well past any negative emotional connections to the LDS Church. I can read it, stay neutral, get a clue about the person writing it and relate some of my past, but any emotional connection about my personal exit process or my time in the church doesn't come into it. Possibly, being a convert helped, also my attitude about my right to change my mind also helped.

It was never about "recovery" for me, personally, as I never felt I had anything to recover from. What I experienced, in my view was just plain old ordinary human behavior that I experienced everywhere. That is why I have always referred to leaving Mormonism as my "Exit Process".

I learned from those behaviors that were bizarre, odd, strange, difficult, that a lot of people have no idea what they are doing; no clue how they are impacting other people. They just don't know any better. When we know better, we do better, and I knew I could do better.

As a convert from several generations of Christian ministers, I am well aware that religions indoctrinate and do a very good job of it. Some religious dogma is more invasive, intrusive, strict than others. Mormonism tries to tie it all up tight. Other religion; not so much.

So Mormons live in denial? Yes. I'm sure of it. Do they believe things that are blatantly unsubstantiated and untrue? Possibly even a hoax, or a fraud? I think so, yes.
That's Ok with me, as I recognize that the need of most humans to emotionally attach to a belief system seems to be almost inherent. In fact, it's a common thread through all of human history.

Reading that post from the member gave me an opportunity to, again, confirm that changing my mind about my belief system and World View was the best decision I could have made.

Like dogzilla, that TBM post was a trigger for me. I wanted to leap through this screen and jump down OP's t' hroat and tap dance on his tonsils. It was like being in a fancy restaurant and seeing a rat in the kitchen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2017 01:59PM by Aquarius123.

That's it!

That's exactly how I felt, Aquarius 123!

We already know the Mormon language. We already know their lies, their drivel, their skewed thinking, their condescension, their testimonies--many of us hear these constantly from the cult members who try to control our lives.

We are trying to move on. I go out of my way to avoid triggers to my PTSD. I have PTSD due to Mormon abuse--physically and mentally punitive Mormon parents and the cult-of-hate-and-threats that supported this behavior. My older Mormon brother beat and tortured me all his life. My temple ex-husband bead me almost every day, for no reason, while reciting to me the D&C 132. He thought I was his property, and that he could do whatever he wanted to me. When I was a divorced single Mormon mother, Mormon adult leaders broke into my house and bullied my children. My little girl was molested by the bishop's ugly older son, in front of a group of Mormons who saw it happen, but were afraid to tell anyone. I was beaten and almost raped (until some boys came to my rescue) in Cannon Center at BYU.

I am so sorry, Dogzilla, about what they did to you!!!

Done & Done said it better:

""Sorry you had a bad experience!" He might as well have smashed you the face with a nail studded two by four rather than say that and it would have been less painful. Mormons really know how to compound the damage they do. Then they will say, "Here let me comfort you" as they twist the knife in your back. So glad you got out."

So glad we got out!

I wanted to challenge the notion that you can pick and choose what you want to believe; yet be in good standing as a member. That's not the church and its overbearing, condescending PH leadership that I clearly remember. It was "Your way is not the lord's way. Either shape up or ship out!"

I think that I am still fighting the demons of a religion that proudly took credit for any small personal achievement that I worked hard to achieve, but laid a mountainous avalanche of shame, guilt and fear for every one of my human weaknesses. Simply put, I was always wrong and the church was always right.

This thread gives me even more respect for the job the Admins do. The comments in this thread demonstrate how difficult the decision can be to delete a post or not. Some here found the thread enlightening, some (with very good reason) found it very disturbing. Both views are valid. We are all in different places, and view things through our own lenses. It is not easy to meet everyone's needs and desires. Erik and the other Admins walk a fine line sometimes in making the call. Some posts are clearly out of line, but some are not so obvious. I don't think an apology is needed because I don't believe Erik intended any harm by leaving it up; it just points out the difficulty in making the decision whether to delete it or not given the diversity of the board.

Finally, if you see something you think is not appropriate, report it and let Admin decide. And a big, big thanks to Erik and all of the Admins for the difficult job you do.