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Posted by: michael anderson ( )
Date: July 12, 2017 06:15PM

me: why do people leave the church

him: I don't know

me: is it remotely possible that the book of mormon/abraham are fiction

him: no

me: but if it were...

him: not worth considering

me: but if I thought that it were objectively fiction would that be a good enough reason to explain my loss of faith

him: no, you'd only think it was fiction if you didn't have the spirit when you made that decision

me: what causes loss of spirit

him: sin

me: so people who don't believe the church is "true" have all lost the spirit and that is caused by their sin - no other explanation

him: mmmmmm. no.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 12, 2017 06:24PM

you poked a tiny hole in his sad attempt at logic, and he appears to have noticed.
Well done :)

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Posted by: Jonny the Smoke ( )
Date: July 12, 2017 07:05PM

After perusing a few christian sites looking for information on judging others......tell your brother that judging others is considered a sin, therefore he has lost the spirit through his sinning, therefore everything he says can't be taken seriously, believed, or be considered truth.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: July 13, 2017 05:42PM

That's how my father treated me. My disbelief was a sin in itself. And my refusal to stop disbelieving was proof that I was following Satan, because there are only two paths--follow my father or follow Satan. There was no room for disagreement, but there was plenty of room for hate. I learned how to hate back.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 14, 2017 08:20PM

don:

love ya. :)

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Posted by: rt ( )
Date: July 14, 2017 01:03PM

> him: no, you'd only think it was fiction if you
> didn't have the spirit when you made that
> decision

Next time, ask him if there are objective criteria to distinguish fact from fiction. For instance, do you need the spirit to confirm that The Bourne Identity (or any other novel) is fiction?

If not, that means there are such criteria which make him categorize a novel as fiction. What are those criteria? Can you apply them to the BoM/BoA? What happens then?

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