(Sorry for not initially reading forum rules and having to repost this, and thank you Amyjo for the advice)

I'm pretty young (20) and I know my limits fairly well, but I think when I left the church a couple years ago I started rebelling a bit too much. Getting drunk is usually the highlight of my week. Last Friday I overdid it and blacked out for half the night, and the friend I was with said I drank anywhere from 11-16 shots, the first 7 or so of which I actually remember. I'm a pretty small female. Luckily I threw up three times (not that I remember) and I was alright. I don't normally drink that much, and I'd never had more than 8 shots before. Apparently the people I was hanging out with egged me on.

I know using alcohol as a coping mechanism isn't very healthy or sustainable, and drinking that much is dangerous. I'm just not really sure how much of a problem this is, or how to go about fixing it. I live at home while attending college right now and I think my parents know I drink, but we've grown very distant since I left the church, so I can't ask them for advice.

I know very little about this type of thing but I think I would suggest you talk with your physician about this.

If you don't have a physician who you can talk to about this sort of thing, you need to switch anyway.

Good luck.

I grew up in a non-LDS home with both parents drinking heavy. When I was 14 years old, I ran away from home straight into the cult. Too much alcohol changes the brain. You need to get professional help.

So what are you limits, 11 or 16? I'm thinking 5. I also advise that you drink water, h2o.

Usually 6 shots will get me pretty drunk. 8 shots makes me black out for half an hour or so, and there's a chance I'll throw up.

While not "wholly diagnostic," blackouts are a strong indicator of early stage alcoholism. And the volume of booze you're consuming (I was drinking about the same amount two years into my drinking) should be ringing alarm bells.

As for throwing up, well, one of the one-liners around meetings is "If you know the Crane trademark on a toilet is blue, you're either a plumber or you belong in Alcoholics Anonymous."

My advice: I would go to as many of those @#$!%%@%! meetings as I could. I don't expect you to "get it" right away; I didn't. What it will do is "plant the seed" for later recovery, and I'm a big believer in treatment and a multi-discipline program that includes 12-Step Support (others are a possibility, but they don't have the proven track record). Relapse is "part of the process," and "it takes what it takes."

I wish you well... There are a number of recovering sorts here, as well as others. such as Richard Packham, Jesus Smith, and Rodolfo, whom I've gladly bought drinks for because it's clear they "drink like gentlemen." I never did...

It's not how much or how often one drinks; it's what it does to a person when they drink.

I agree that blackouts are a huge red flag. In my wastrel youth, I only knew of one friend who suffered from blackouts. We all knew it was a bad sign. Her grades started going downhill, and fortunately for her, her family stepped in. They brought her back closer to home so that they could keep a sharp eye on her while she completed her studies.

In the OP's shoes, I would drop the current group of "friends" (who are NOT on her side,) find a new group of more sensible friends, and dial back on consumption. If blackouts are still happening, stronger measures will be necessary.

First, if you are doing this to rebel, then the church is still controlling your life. Maybe consider what you want irrespective of outside influence.

And remember, drinking can be a cult. Seems to be many rituals to prove your allegiance, like how much you can drink, various glasses, attending meetings at the bar or winery, or brewery, etc. Pressuring others into drinking.

Maybe you should rebel against all that. But seems most are tribalists and have to follow one group or another.

It is interesting that you don't know how big a problem it is that you passed out by ingesting a toxin. Imagine you had drunk paint thinner and passed out - gee, not sure if that is normal or not?

I don't understand why anyone drinks poison, even at low levels. Haven't seen much good come from it. Each person thinks they are the exception, and you probably do also.

Free Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And remember, drinking can be a cult. Seems to
> be many rituals to prove your allegiance, like how
> much you can drink, various glasses, attending
> meetings at the bar or winery, or brewery, etc.
> Pressuring others into drinking.

From the OP's original post, "Apparently the people I was hanging
out with egged me on."

I had a thoroughly average nevermo college experience, meaning I partied a lot. You are drinking *way* too much alcohol. Shots have a way of sneaking up on you, because you can drink them so quickly. Plus as a small female you are not carrying a lot of body weight. You are in danger of literally poisoning yourself to death.

Take a look at the following link, which Brown University uses to advise its students. Read all of it, but especially take a close look at "Knowing your Blood Alcohol Content (BAC)" and also, "Effects of blood alcohol content on thinking, feeling and behavior". It's a little hard to judge because time is also a factor, but I think that you are looking at a maximum of maybe 3-4 shots total for an evening. And I'm not talking about a habit that is healthy for the long run, just keeping in mind that college students tend to like to tie one on.

https://www.brown.edu/campus-life/health/services/promotion/alcohol-other-drugs-alcohol/alcohol-and-your-body

I know it's hard living at home, but I honestly think that college students are better off sticking with beer, with maybe a mixed drink or two here and there. Shots as a habit are just too hard on your body.

One way to pace yourself might be to have a shot, and then for your next drink have a tall glass of water, sparkling water, juice, etc. It's important to hydrate when you are out drinking. Your body will appreciate it and it will prevent hangovers.

It goes without saying that none of you should be driving with this level of drinking going on! Walk with friends or take a cab instead. Try to dial back your alcohol consumption. If you have any concerns, the student health services at your school will likely be a good resource. They have seen it all.

Alcohol is like money. It is a wonderful servant but a terrible master.

If you are drinking too much, don't.

Might want to consider not drinking at all.

You will be able to think more clearly. You will be able to accomplish goals much easier. You will have better relationships. You will have less legal problems, and you will have a lot more money.

There is nothing wrong with drinking, but do not waste time in your life to anything that will give you so little in return.

I think the issue is whether you can stop or at least control it. If not,you have a problem.You may want to stop hangiing out with people who indulge in and encourage binge drinking.I agree that drinking til you pass out is asking for trouble and not just potential alcoholism. You could die of alcohol poisoning, be injured or sexually assaulted or otherwise be taken advantage of. It isnt healthy or safe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2017 02:04AM by bona dea.

>>You may want to stop hanging out with people who indulge in and encourage binge drinking.

This is critical. Sometimes you do need to change the people you hang out with in order to change your habits. When I was a sophomore in college my best buddies were starting to hang out with a rough crowd. I took a step back from them and decided to move back into the dorms, where I formed a new circle of friends. I didn't totally lose touch with my earlier friends, but just realized that I needed to move in a different direction.

A couple of thoughts--if you're concerned about your drinking, then you realize that something isn't quite right. This doesn't mean you're an alcoholic or a "bad" person. It doesn't seem at this stage that alcohol has complete control over your life; however, it's probably a good idea to quit drinking for a while (establish a goal of several weeks, no exceptions).

If you're unable to stop completely, you will need professional help. This doesn't mean you're an alcoholic, just that you need help controlling something before it controls you.

Please don't feel guilt or shame concerning what happened. This is counterproductive. Rather, recognize that alcohol impairs moral reasoning and judgment.

Perhaps, you'd benefit from a change of routine. You could meet friends for coffee or dinner, rather than drinks. If someone asks you about why you're not drinking, just say that you're on the wagon and don't mind if they drink.

My very best wishes, please know that this doesn't have to escalate. You've learned a valuable lesson before it went out of control.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2017 02:02AM by BYU Boner.

Hi " anon for this"... Who's written in before in her cry for help. " Anon", let me ask you a question....if you had a 15 year old brother who was in the habit of driving a motorcycle as fast as it could go, say 140 mph, down curvy, hilly roads, drifting from one lane to another, crossing the double yellow line, in the dark...what would you tell him if he asked you what you thought about it? And then he said, " Don't worry, I'm in control, I know my limits!! I'm sure some of the good people here have experienced similar drinking behaviors that you have described and they have all given you some good advice, as far as it goes. 11-12 shots?? You don't know how many cause you like to drink until you black-out, then you lose count. You and I know you can't "cut down". You have to quit. Boner made a good suggestion. Try a few weeks, don't go out with your drinking friends. You're going to have to quit, whether it's thru talking with your doctor or making new non drinking friends or whatever.

You are in about as much danger as the imaginary brother I created for you. Tell your situation to an adult you respect and be honest. We can only do so much here on this board.

Problem with the quit-for-a-few-weeks strategy is that if she can white-knuckle it (or easily get through) those few weeks she has her "I can quit any time I like" line tried and tested. And she can pull it out whenever she likes or is pressured to for the next several decades.

I agree with many who have already posted. She is drinking an obscene amount of alcohol--I suggested the physician because maybe that person can make her see reason.

I am an alcoholic. No one starts out to be. It just happens.

May I offer a thought? Truly explore who you are and want to be. Drive somewhere you know or find from a friend. Be safe, but go alone. Somewhere with bright night stars. Clear. Take some food and some booze if you need. Go sit under the stars and have an honest, totally honest, conversation with yourself. Buy a book. Read it. Then read it again. The book? 'The Four Agreements.' It will give you unbelievable insight into who you are. My gift to you...

If you don't do it now, you will do it in rehab after you've f'd up your life. I know you doubt me. Hope not.

Hugs from me. I never met you but I love you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2017 07:19PM by incognitotoday.

Only you can tell if you have a problem or not. Ask the people in your life who know you best what their perspective is. I know that sounds like contradicting advice- asking yourself and then asking others- but see if their reflections on your behavior approximate your own thoughts.

And then, once again, you'll have to ask yourself and decide whether or not you have a problem. Sometimes these kind of problems become so evident that others intervene, point out the problems to you, sometimes even force you to get help, or outside interventions by the courts or the police or what-have-you force you to change. You don't want to get to that point.

I have rarely met people who have gotten to that point who did not truly know somewhere inside themselves that their problems were "that bad". They were just in denial. It takes a tremendous amount of carelessness and lack of self-awareness to truly not see the problems of addiction manifesting in yourself.

What you decide to do after that is on you. I do not specifically advocate for one form of therapy or recovery over another- at least anymore. People who do often have agendas.

Best of luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2017 10:27PM by midwestanon.

I am also an alcoholic. When I first left the mormon church, alcohol was a great time and made me feel free. Then it became fun mixed with some problems. Then it became just problems, followed by really big problems. Im not one to say everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic. I am however a living, breathing example that some people react differently

Sorry- stupid phone posted before I was done (no Im not drinking :) )some people react differently to alcohol and should maybe not drink. Just a word of wisdom err warning. Good luck!

Lots of young people in our area have died of acute alcohol intoxication.

Often, what made it worse, is that their compatriots were usually too drunk or dumb to help them.

One boy at a party drank shots one after another, also egged on by his friends. He ended up on the floor. His GF and her ninny friend said, "Ewwww, he peed on us, so we left!" He died.

I don't know if it is nature (genetics) or nurture (family culture), but I do know that children and grandchildren of alcoholics are particularly susceptible to becoming alcoholics themselves.

You know your family culture, and you probably know enough about your genetics to know if you should be concerned on this level. (Although be aware...As the venerable saying goes: It is a wise child who knows who her/his father is, and this would also apply to your grandfathers.)

Both of my parents were alcoholics throughout all of their adult years, and both had "end-stage alcoholism" written on their Death Certificates (one as the primary cause of death...the other as secondary to bladder cancer)...

...and I do watch what I drink quite carefully.

I am VERY aware that I, personally, am vulnerable.

As usual Tevai, you're absolutely right. There are at least 4 generations of alcoholics backing me in my family (and the oldest in that line was an Anglican Bishop ;-). Despite my awareness of the history, I ended up falling into the Alky Hole for 17 years...

Alcohol's a crap drug with lots of unpleasant side effects. I'd suggest trying to keep away from it, although I know that's difficult in our "western" societies. As there is often pressure to drink, a little white lie might be in order to explain your abstinence: a weak liver or a genetic allergy, whatever...

And, as the Cabbie says above, if you can't beat it on your own, seek help - AA or whatever, as long as the people running it have an inside experience of alcoholism which, unlike most other modern addictions, is constantly facilitated and even encouraged (advertising...) by the societies around us.

Good luck - and keep in touch. There are some very wise people on RfM.

Best wishes to you

Tom in Paris
who hasn't touched a drop since September 2nd, 2002 ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2017 06:20AM by Soft Machine.

Once you hit the "having blackouts stage" it's time to quit.
Trust me.

Yes, it's a problem, a big one, one that may have caused your family to be advised of your death. It was little different than playing with a loaded gun; you could have died.

Egged you on...? No, that's blaming someone else for your choices, laying responsibility for your behavior on someone other than yourself. You might even want to blame an inanimate object, the booze itself.

You want to know how to "fix it." Even that question lacks ownership of your behavior, a separation between "you" and "it."

The honest part of you has some awareness that you must fix your big problem, because you have reached out for help, and correcting the bs language you are using is the first step in taking control of your behavior.

_________

Question:

How many drinks can I have before I know I can't stop myself from having another?

One? Two? None?

________

Can you stop at one or two drinks? If not, there is your answer. The only reason to get pass-out drunk is to escape yourself, something that booze can't do, can't help you with, will only extend and make worse the need for your running away.

You describe your home life and parents in such dismissive terms, as if having a home provided for you is a minor thing, and those providing it of little or no consequence. You seek emotional shelter in not knowing if they know. Given your level of intelligence, I think they would have to be mentally deficient to not know.

So why, at 20, do you equate risking your life and blaming others for your behavior as "over doing [rebel] a bit?" That's not "a bit," but another minimization of your responsibility for your behavior. If you hate your parents and home so much that you would rather die than be there, you need to solve that problem. Being a pass-out drunk every Friday won't solve it for you.

Honesty. Authenticity. Responsibility.

Start there.

Put your big girl pants on, and be the adult you so badly want to be.

Here's a thought - how much better would you feel on Saturday, if you spent your Friday evening dishing soup to those who may have never had the means or opportunity to build a life, and those who chose to risk and waste their opportunuties? Maybe volunteer at the children's home, or a retirement facility?

How about pulling yourself from your massive pity self-deception party, and help someone else?

Choose which you would rather put on your resume.

These are the things I would say to a friend or family member, someone I love. What did your "friend" say to you? I would then schedule the next Friday night for us to volunteer, and drag my loved one along, kicking and screaming. What is your friend planning for this Friday?

If you have no such friend right now, you will find the types of friends you want, where ever you plan and choose to spend Friday, 8/4/17.

You need a different hobby....

I respect you for questioning what's going on. It's hard when you're surrounded by people who think that drinking like that is normal and even glamorous to think otherwise.

As someone who left the church in my twenties and fully adopted the drinking culture of academia, I've struggled mightily with this same issue.

After much pain, I've come to the conclusion that alcohol is a crutch just like the church is a crutch. It weakens people and it lies to them. That magnanimous, grandiose self that you are when you are drinking is not real. Alcohol is a LIAR, it deceives many.

I know it's very unpopular, but I think that it harms everyone who drinks it. Why is there no such thing as 'moderation' with any drug but alcohol? Because people want to think that they're not doing harm to themselves.

I made many mistakes, some of them massive when I'd been drinking. Some of my relationships existed entirely in the haze of alcohol.

You may need to see for yourself that it is poison for your true self. But maybe eventually you will.

I know people will disagree, but this is my truth. I'm so much happier without that poison in my life.

Good luck with this battle. Many have walked a similar path.

Move to the UK - you'll fit in perfectly. What you described is a normal Friday night.

Seems a normal learner drinkers error. Don't beat yourself up, but reflect on if that's what you like and want to be seen as.

Most important, and as a female perhaps more, dont let yourself become a potential victim (you know what I'm talking about).

Read, and reread SLCabbie's an BYUBoner's posts again and again. Good luck to you....you CAN do this :)

Experimentation with alcohol is a fairly normal part of growing up outside of Mormonism. If this becomes habitual you may have some issues with over drinking. At this point though, I say learn from your errors and move forward. Don't beat yourself up or categorize yourself as an alcoholic or alcohol abuser or anything like that. We all make mistakes. Learn from them and they have value.