...for everyone, from an educated Jewish perspective.

On You Tube, there are lectures on various subjects of Jewish interest (including Christianity, mostly as it intersected with Jewish history) by Jewish historian Dr. Henry Abramson, which have become extremely popular because they are so clear, and can be relied upon for accuracy. (He gives his sources, and when he doesn't know, he SAYS he doesn't know.)

[Short bio: he was born in rural Canada...the only Jewish child in his community (or for miles around)...and because he was the only Jewish child in the area, he became fascinated with how people self-identify, as well as exactly "what" it means to be a Jew...he was not particularly observant until he met the young woman he wanted to marry, and because she was Orthodox, he became what Jews call a "baal t'shuvah" in order to marry her, because she wouldn't marry him otherwise. (Being a baal t'shuvah means: he became observant...he is now a practicing Orthodox Jew, and the father of now-adult children who are at least mostly observant.). Along the way he became a historian, and he teaches history of various kinds in (mostly Jewish) colleges and universities. He is incredibly personable, and his explanations of some often pretty complicated material are clear, are sourced, and are often funny.]

In less than thirty minutes, here is the [Orthodox, or maybe the Abramson in particular] Jewish take on Jesus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng7D4beNmeA -- "Judaism and Early Christianity."

He also has another lecture, which is just under an hour in running time, on Paul: "Who was Paul of Tarsus? Jewish Biography as History"

He believes in a single-person Jesus, and he does definitely believe that Jesus once existed.

I converted through Conservative/Reconstructionist auspices, and in my Jewish history classes was taught that many Jewish scholars and rabbis do NOT believe in a single-person Jesus, but rather that there were multiple Jewish males (at least several of them), in that time and place, who were all--in response especially to the political situation vis-à-vis the Romans--doing the "same" thing at the "same" time, and that in later years these stories were conflated into the story of Jesus which is in the New Testament.

For anyone who is really interested in this subject, I think you will find Henry Abramson's lectures to be of substantial interest. (They're also fun. He is the kind of guy you'd like to have with you on a camping trip as you all sit around the fire at night, under the stars, and talk about the deep things in life that most people don't talk about much under most daily circumstances.)

P.S. He refers to the "Tanakh" which means: what Christians call the Old Testament. "Tanakh" is an acronym of the first Hebrew letter of each of the three subdivisions of the Old Testament which are, in English: "Teachings," "Prophets," and "Writings."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2017 05:56AM by Tevai.

Here's a great documentary which touches on the topic extensively

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik7GRQ9hoVY

Visitors Welcome Wrote:
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> Here's a great documentary which touches on the
> topic extensively
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik7GRQ9hoVY

My opinion differs substantially from yours...I do not think this is a "great documentary"--it isn't even a "documentary" at all!

This is Christian proselytizing media (with extremely poor production values, which make watching it for any amount of time nearly impossible), and the video has nothing to do with history, or biography, or theology, or any academic study of facts about anything that I was able to see.

I did not link to the original thread which inspired this thread: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2009397 , and (on reflection) I should have, and I apologize because the lack of linkage to the original thread may have given you the mistaken impression that proselytizing in some way was being attempted--which is not so. (The rules of this board prohibit both proselytization and personal religious testimonies.)

I am sorry that I gave you the wrong impression.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2017 05:43PM by Tevai.

That video has been debunked and it contains a lot of misinformation.I am referring to 'The God Who Wasnt There.'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2017 11:03PM by bona dea.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That video has been debunked and it contains a lot
> of misinformation.I am referring to 'The God Who
> Wasnt There.'

Thanks, bona dea.

This is muchly appreciated. :)

I watched your video and enjoyed it. He follows scholarly views and seems very knowledgeable. The only quibble I had was his assertion that Jesus was a Pharisee. While it is possible, I think it is just as likely or more so that he was not. I will watch more when I have more time. I am less inclined to buy the view that there were many Jesuses who have merged into one. That is not a mainstream view and doesnt seem that likely to me although there certainly could have been things attributed to Jesus that he didnt do or say and there certainly many people with the same name. It seem to me that mixing up people named Jesus to that extent would be alike mixing up the Georges of the Revolution into one.I think we are familiar enough to be able to tell the differences between George Washington, George Mason and George the Third for instance. Same for the numerous Jews named Jesus.One last thing, the video recommended by the other poster isnt Christian if I remember it correctly although I didnt take the.timebto watch it again.. It is mythicist if it is the one I am thinking of.Anyway, thanks again for the link



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2017 04:23AM by bona dea.

Thank you for seeing it, and for posting this!

Your question about Jesus being considered part of the group of Pharisees is, if I am remembering correctly (which I may not be; this isn't an area I have actually studied), based on the fact that he was debating Jewish law (something the Pharisees were most known for), and that he was acting like, and was addressed as, "rabbi."

Jewish rabbis, from ancient times to right now, are all considered to be part of the Pharisees ("ancestrally," at least).

When I was in my conversion-to-Judaism class, it was an unexpected shock to us (and this includes me) that all Jewish rabbis TODAY are considered to be religious, and Jewish-political, descendants of the Pharisees in the New Testament, because the Pharisees in the NT were the "bad guys." Our teachers (all of whom were rabbis) were prepared for this shock; evidently, it happens with EVERY new conversion class which comes through. :D

I often play Henry Abramson's lectures when I am doing repetitive work in the kitchen (cleaning vegetables, doing dishes, scrubbing the cupboards and floor, etc.), and I have learned SO MUCH, about so many different subjects, from him! I think he is one of the great popular assets of the twenty-first century, and I am very thankful that his lectures on You Tube exist.

And I thank you, bona dea, for taking the time to see this video. I thought you might enjoy what he has to say, especially since what he is saying very largely validates what you have expressed here.

Thank you. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2017 03:52AM by Tevai.

Thanks for the explanation of Pharisees. That explains a lot.At the very least, Jesus was certainly knowledgable of of Pharisaic beliefs and certainly could have studied with them,even if he didnt seem to like them much at times

I believe it was Saul of Tarsus who became the apostle Paul.

Thank for posting, Tevai. I don't have a lot of time right now, but I'm looking forward to viewing the videos. Shalom be with you!

Thanks for the video Tevai. Interesting watch.

HH =)