https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/sep/01/paolo-macchiarini-scientist-surgeon-rise-and-fall



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2017 08:57AM by anybody.

Another fraudulent doctor gets caught.
What does this have to do with science ?

And Mormonism shouldn't get a pass because of religion.

Fraud is fraud, religious or not.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> Another fraudulent doctor gets caught.
> What does this have to do with science ?

Dave, read the article. There's quite a bit of good, honest criticism of fraud in science -- and such criticism helps keep science honest.

And then there's this related story...:(

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/aug/05/stem-cell-scientist-found-dead-in-wake-of-research-paper-scandal

Best practices of science assumes that conclusions can be wrong (because of lack of critical evidence, mistakes or fraud). With science, there are mechanisms built into the scientific method to identify and correct this. Is it perfect? No, but the process encourages learning and changing ideas base on new evidence.

This is not the case with "Faith".

Yeah, but the story is about a sociopathic con man who happened to be a surgeon. His bosses took the fall with him because they should have known better. His "playing miracle doctor" hardly rises to the level of science.

His lies kept getting bigger and better, just like Joe's.

The first is, this is medical fraud, not scientific.

As for scientific fraud? Well, I "lived through" the "cold fusion" fiasco here in Utah, and it took, what, all of a week or two before there was a big brouha, and the results were questioned...

Now if you want to talk about Mark Hofmann, there's a fraud I'm familiar with...

And a key factor in fraud is the necessity of a supply of "gullible victims."

Education and authentic sophistication can go a long way toward reeying these problems...

Here on Planet Utah, those factors are often in short supply.

If I may offer a slight correction: the cold fusion thing was not a fraud. It was not a hoax designed to bilk people. It was mistaken interpretation of experimental results, and certainly was a case of getting overexcited.

And yes, the claim was quickly disproven. The result was that everybody agreed it was not trustworthy. Note that nobody in the scientific world questioned their basic theory, which is that their may indeed be some conditions under which hydrogen atoms could be induced to fuse at room temperature. The only counter-allegation was that the researchers had failed to adequately demonstrate their claims.

Which is the exact opposite of religious claims. In religion nobody believes the exposers. Demands for proof are denounced vehemently. The most successful claims are the most outlandish. And in most cases the whole point is to bilk people out of their life savings. It's almost like people want to be fooled...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2017 12:32PM by slskipper.

As I see it, there are some common elements with the "medical fraud" identified above in that Macchiarini may well have believed in the efficacy of his treatment, at least initially.

When he "discovered" his methods weren't "supported" by medical science, he engaged in an obvious cover-up, etc. (denial?) and speculating on his motives, and such is above my pay grade…

Many perpetrators of fraud do believe their own nonsense; even doctors… Years ago I had an MD in the cab at one of the Tahitian "Noni Juice" MLM conventions here… Somewhere I have the bullchip filter I saved; I had to change it in the middle of a shift, honest.

>Cures impotence, diabetes, basal cell carcinomas…

Speaking of similar frauds, there's a Do-Terra convention coming here this week…

Am I a co-conspirator in those frauds by making money off of it and keeping silent about my actual views on the products?

/kohlberg moral dilemma off

Anyway, from a standpoint of "consequences," Pons and Fleischmann were certainly vilified and essentially ruined professionally by the chain of events.

And they continued their research with Japanese funding, etc. which I understand is "still ongoing." Ah, here we are…

https://www.asme.org/engineering-topics/articles/nuclear/cold-fusion-25-years-later

>The Martin Fleishmann Memorial Project is an effort by believers to honor Fleishmann, who died in 2012, by promoting widespread replication and publication of contemporary low-energy fusion reaction experiments by reputable researchers. They have redubbed the technology the New Fire, and use their web site to swap news and documents, including 3D CAD plans for replicas of key reactor components.

Hmmm… "Star in a jar"? Gotta admit that sounds catchy...

I know for a fact that they're not all frauds. Miracle cures are a big problem for the modern economy. You can't just have people stop going to the doctor. The next thing you know, they'll give up their priest.

The technology exists for decimating sick care. The underlying concepts are taking root that could completely eliminate the sick care industry. That's no small disruption. Not everyone thrives on chaos.

In the "Most-unrecovered-from-Mormonism" category.

Hang onto that delusional paranoia...

It is a methodologically empirical system of testable cross-checks that is not provided by, or typical of, superstitious religious belief systems.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2017 01:34AM by steve benson.

Are religions peer reviewed? I hear Mormons discussing Mormonism all the time.

bradley Wrote:
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> Are religions peer reviewed?

You bet they are!
Just ask any believer from any religion to prove all other religions wrong and they'll tell it like it is!
Problem is, they don't put all this peer review to good use ;)

They just have to find the right peep stone.

Two things will kill a scientific career: faking the data, and plagiarism.

Two things will launch a religious career: faking the date, and plagiarism.