Hello,

I married a girl that was raised Mormon and left the religion not long before we met. I didn't know much bout Mormonism, but have learned probably more than I ever wanted to know in recent years. The biggest issue we have had in our Marriage is the sex, unfortunately I was probably a little meaner than i should have been because I didn't realize the kind of brainwashing they do to these girls to pretty much ensure they will never have a happy sex life. As far as amount of sex we have there is no issue, but anything outside standard missionary and she gets freaked out. This is to include oral or even the thought of something like anal. It is also very hard to give her an orgasm. I have talked her into us seeing a sex therapist to try and work through some of the brainwashing she has endured her entire childhood. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to help her understand that sex is not something to be ashamed of and that it is fine for her to enjoy it? Also is taking her to a therapist the right path?

Thanks,

'taking her' sounds like she's maybe not into it....

how long married, 'is the honeymoon over?', ja ja???

Don't rush this with (asking her to) watching porn or anything close, OK?

Perhaps your 'sex drive' s aren't matching (?).

explain that sex isn't necessarily love, love isn't necessarily sex!

We have been married for 13 years and I have been trying to move her along slowly but haven't had much success. I shouldn't have said I am taking her, we made a deal before we ever got married that if something was wrong in our marriage or if just one of us had an issue that the other would happily go to counseling. Other than this issue we have a wonderful marriage and we have always communicated very well. This issue is just something that I feel like I have done everything i can think of and I don't know what to do next, that's why we are turning to a therapist.I have tried to explain exactly what you mentioned and I think she understands what I am saying, but even she says that she is trying but the brainwashing keeps coming back into her head and she let it go.

The shame almost has to be tied to the idea that what she does in bed can be seen by spirits, even a god.

I can't imagine feeling frisky or experimental in front of "angels." I don't necessarily buy that her issues. with sex are tied to sex, per se, but to spirits.

How is she in general religious education? So much changed for me once I realized that I was alone with my honey - no ancestors, no ghosts, no angels, no gods. Just him and me.

It's also possible that she was abused, and the shame is too deep to discuss. "Behaving" as a "pure" adult can help to ameliorate those feelings. Children who experieced sexual pleasure, even orgasm, while being abused can be especially prone to shame.

I am a woman who experienced both, and didn't tell a soul for many decades.

Yes, counseling of some sort might help. It can't hurt! You might also try getting her to browse through a friendly, standard sex manual. Back in my younger days it was "The Joy of Sex." Try that one, or something similar.

>>It is also very hard to give her an orgasm.

She needs to learn what will give her an organism! She will learn this through masturbation. FYI, masturbation is a huge no-no in Mormonism. But she needs to do this to discover what exactly works for her.

Something to try if you haven't already -- while in missionary position, put a firm pillow under her rear end. Gradually increase to several pillows, perhaps over time. This will put you in a kneeling position. It will angle her vagina so that you are hitting the G-spot. She will love this!

Finally, try to look on the bright side. You are having a reasonable frequency of sex. We've heard many reports over the years from husbands of Mormon wives that are far more dismal.

She AND you need to learn how to give her an orgasm. Most women do not orgasm during vaginally intercourse, and many men (statistically) don't know how to please women sexually...especially Mormon men, who were told women don't want sex at all. This could be a really, really fun partner project. Read yourself extensively, if you haven't already, about the many ways to make women orgasm. Societally, we haven't tended to prioritize it, and thus haven't spent as much time teaching people how to do it. Before couples' counseling I would take it very slow. Spend some nights just making out and doing light foreplay. Then slowly build it up, then bring it back down, then up again. Read about tantric sex. Buy her a vibrator.

It doesn't all have to lead to intercourse. Most sex is very penis-focused, and especially in Mormonism, because it's so focused on procreation that women have to suddenly have penile sex before they even know they can be aroused, and there's no focus on their pleasure at all. It's not even conceived of within Mormonism that women *could* have sexual pleasure.

Whew!

How 'bout them Dodgers, huh?

:-)

Take it easy man, you're not a srar some of our wishes are personal.

A great book "And they were not ashamed" Actually pretty good, and can be fun to work through the chapters together. It is even sold by Deseret Book too so you can help someone that is still LDS oriented see that there is even LDS support for this, but it is definitely NOT what is talked about in Sunday school.

Talk to her about what she likes and try to do those things. Then broach what you would like to try. Everyone doesnt like oral or anal, but encourage her to give it a try.

Hate to break it to you, but many people aren't into sex that much, especially after they have you locked down in marriage. Doesn't mean there is a problem - people are different. Generally, men like it more than women, testosterone and all.

Just because she was in church doesn't mean she was brainwashed. I know many nonmormon men who have your same problem. The sex was good while dating or early on, but after time, or when kids come, not so much.

One of the myths that gets men to commit to marriage is that there will be lots of sex.

Here's a discussion by women who hate sex:

https://forums.webmd.com/3/sex-and-relationships-exchange/forum/9407?pg=1

A few excerpts:

"I am a healthy 26yr old female. I have been married for 6 years and I absolutely hate sex!! If it was up to me I would never ever have sex. I feel so bad for my poor husband because Im never in the mood. He always has to beg for sex and the whole time Im just ready for it to be over. I dont want to be this way!! When we were teenagers I was normal and actually liked sex but not now. Im so scared that it is going to ruin my marriage."

"Thank you for this informed post. I agree that the majority of married women I talk to (privately) that they would be happy if they never had to have sex again. They go through the motions for their husbands and those that don't, get divorced."

"My husband and I are in our 20s (24 & 25) and we have been together for 10 yrs this year, married for 6 yrs. We have 3 children together, and do not have an active sex life. We are very healthy individuals also. Abstinence is choice, and my husband deals with it because he does not want a divorce or to live a life apart from me and our children. This has never been an issue.

Sex for me is about procreation, not recreation. We have sex when planning to conceive and then it stops. We sleep in separate rooms. I do not let my husband touch me. I do not let my husband see me naked. When we have had sex, its fully- clothed sex, lights out, and no kissing or foreplay. Just quick sex to do the job. Our youngest just turned 2 and we will not be having anymore children, and I do not anticipate or forsee us ever having a reason to have sex ever again. I certainly do not initiate or ask for it on my own. I hate it so much! "

We get it. You stopped having sex with your wife and so you post this shit every time someone writes about women.

Statistically, married people have more sex though. So your anecdotes don't do much in the face of real data.

Anonnonnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We get it. You stopped having sex with your wife
> and so you post this shit every time someone
> writes about women.
>
> Statistically, married people have more sex
> though. So your anecdotes don't do much in the
> face of real data.

My thoughts exactly. This Free Man has clearly been hurt by a woman and needs to get help. These types never want to be accountable for their own poor discernment in choosing a partner who loves and respects them. Married couples have plenty of sex if they don't there's a problem in the relationship...and it may be with either member. Bitterness to the max,.geez.

I think is a good post by Free Man.

It is a reality that attitudes to sex are dispersed like the bell curve, with people spread across a wide desire range in terms of sex drive.

When you also factor in age, levels of tiredness from kids etc, and the dwindling effects of limerence, this means that at least half the population fall into the lower half of that curve in terms of desire.

Men are more driven because of testosterone. But we outweigh the vast majority of women because we are biologically wired to mate more as an evolutionary outcome.

I see two things here:

1. Your wife has low expectations of sex but could have a higher sex drive if guilt/experience/knowledge/attraction was all in place.

2. Her sex drive is lower than yours.

It really is that simple.

If it is one you have a path to solution. If it is two you have a path to compromise or you need to think up an alternate mechanism of compromise.

Free Man, It's not only that if you post, it is only to demean women, but also that your marriage is not merely asexual, but seemingly an emotional desert.

Most of us are here to recover, many are women who have taken the bull by the horns, have worked to improve our lives and relationships, while you view your martyrdom as some sort of "aggrieved husband" garment that you write about as if it is a sacrament.

If I recall correctly, you have sacrificed yourself for 30+ years to a wife who has broken the faith with you, not fulfilled her marital obligations and is emotionally abusive to you. I am sad beyond words for you, but at a total loss as to why you refuse to take any responsibility for improving your lot.

Surely you see the stories of women here who have lost everything, including children, to seek healthy ways of living, freedom from abuse. They range from overtly horny to asexual. You, on the other hand, have turned into a male version of your wife. Can't you see that? If you can, how do you justify being abusive to others?

I can only think it is the weight of being a constant "people pleaser" to your wife. You take her abuse, come here and off-load all of that negativity on the "entire" billions of humans who were born female.

There are millions of women who cherish their husbands and show it in so many ways, including the absolute yearning for his sexual self. They try to think of ways to please him in bed, experiment sexually with him, and absolutely love sucking his cock, because it pleases him, which pleases her. They dress up in lacy things, carefully have errant hair painfully plucked and shaved, wear perfume and makeup, watch what they eat, and a myriad of other things to be pleasing for and to him.

If you want to find a woman like that, it won't be found within the confines of your home. It is not "our" fault, but yours, that you do absolutely nothing to seek health and satisfaction. You have this one life, and you have thrown it at brick wall from which you refuse to unchain yourself. I don't know why, but "vows" are nothing more than an excuse. Abuse and neglect are causes of action, valid reasons for seeking divorce. You make choices, and should take responsibility for your choice to remain miserable.

Children need parents who are warm and accepting of human nature. I think this whole attitude sounds rather cold and such parents wouldn't likely be accepting of a child's normal inclinations. I feel sorry for children who are brought into a home like this one.

I think woman have just as much sexual appetite as men but I think woman are more discerning. Granted religion, myths and ridulous stigmas about woman didn't help. This is a new era and woman have caught up. My first wife was Mormon and a little messed up with sex, so I thought. The truth is, after time she realized she didn't love me. Her sex life turned out good after that (don't really fell like telling how I know). So guys, when a woman gives you some lame excuse about sex while dating, what she is really saying, "I'm going to have sex, just not with you".
(My wife told me that one)

Okay, so what the OP must understand about mormon brainwashing in particular, is that everything is tied to morality. Drinking, sex, lying -- any sin or even hint of a sin is 100% enmeshed with a person's idea of whether or not they are a good person.

From the time one is old enough to even understand the words, the basic message is: Sex is bad, dirty, and dangerous so you should save it for your husband, at which point, you should just throw a switch in your head and fuck him like a Thai hooker.

Buying your wife a vibrator or watching porn is not going to undo that message. If anything, it'll make her feel worse.

So what you have to focus on IN THERAPY, with a licensed, experienced therapist who specializes in sexual dysfunction, is separating the idea of morality from sexuality. Just because she has sex, that does not make her a dirty filthy slut. You will not reject her as a dirty nasty slut if all of a sudden, she starts to enjoy and explore sex. She has to learn to accept the idea that all of us are sexual beings by biology -- we are hard-wired to procreate. There is nothing wrong with being sexual or expressing one's sexuality! But there is a part of her who still feels ashamed and guilty and a little dirty because she's been told her entire life that sex = immoral.

Y'all should start talking about what makes a person moral or immoral and then try to figure out what your sexuality has to do with that. There are ethics to sex, mostly related to trust, communication, respect, honesty, etc. But being sexual or feeling sexual or expressing sexuality -- NONE of those things make one an immoral person.

That's the challenge for brainwashed exmos. And changing the kind of thinking that I'm talking about is way above exmormon.org's pay grade. Find a licensed therapist. Go to therapy with your wife and work together to unlink morality from sexuality.

If your wife is sexually reluctant, suggesting anal is NOT taking it slow. Even oral can be a stretch--many women don't like the thought of a d!(k in their mouths. How would you like it?

The brainwashing can go so far back they really aren't totally aware why they feel the way they do or have the deep inhibitions that hamper freely expressing sexuality...when afour year old begins crying over modesty while swimming because her swimming suit doesn't cover her legs and arms the shame is already well in place and likely began at two to cause such emotion...had a birds eye view of this deeply instilled Victorian prudery...good luck...it seldom gets better ime...so many variables such as hormones etc can be involved...let's give freeman a break...I know far more couples in this situation than not...I get a thrill every time I see an older couple still in love and not tolerance...yes it's a two way dance...I'll about guarantee you...that mother picks the music...I'd guess maybe perhaps as low as ten percent of older couples do more than tolerate each other...jmo...ain't worth much but it's free...you who crash on freeman haven't been in his shoes...ymmv hopefully

I have a bunch of ideas....but...I actually think that a therapist/counseling would be the best route. Anything you say (and I've been there) might make her feel inadequate and not help AT ALL.

Being calm and loving, simply saying that you read somewhere that this kind of counseling--really every kind of counseling--can only be helpful for both of you, and that you would like to try if she would, too.

You have time. This doesn't have to be resolved in a day, a week, or a month. Remember that, please. Before you know it, if you take your time, things might really change. And it will be change for the rest of your lives.

Budbob —.

Tell us a bit more about your wife and her relationship with religion.

* Is she a “Jack Mormon” — someone who doesn’t go to church, and doesn’t really care, or an “ex Mormon” or “apostate” — someone who firmly believes the Mormon church is 100% BS.

* Does she feel guilty that she doesn’t go to church? Or does she not care at all?

* Do her parents or other relatives periodically try to encourage her to return to activity in the Mormon church?

* Does she actively cognitively disassociated herself from the Mormon church — declared it to be “made up”, talk about how much she hates it? Or is she just ambivalent?

* And, is she socially conservative in other areas? A republican? Do you live in an area where people are generally religious? Generally agnostic?

The reason I ask is because Mormonism got its claws deep into those of us that grew up with it. In many ways. And if she is still watching over her shoulder in other ways, or feeling guilty about not being an active Mormon, then these could be contributing to her conservative sexual preferences.

And, some of these other areas of religious guilt may be much easier to address than the sexual ones.

For instance, if she kind of believes in the whole Mormon religion, but doesn’t feel like she’s able to adhere to its lifestyle requirements, then approaching at the “let’s talk about Mormonism, god, what god is all About,” etc. might be an easier way to unravel these things than convincing her to try new positions in bed.

Many people I know that are now solid ex-Mormons just started out as people that couldn’t stomach the mundane dumb mind-stifling aspects of the Mormon church, and it wasn’t until many years later that they came to the conclusion that it was all made up — joesph smith and crew made up the Book of Mormon, God never came and personally visited JS, etc.

RG

oral for you, I imagine you're talking about. If it were oral for her, she would have no problem reaching orgasm

Hi. I'm glad I saw this post. I have never been LDS, but I visit here on occasion to better understand those in my life who are. My husband and I often have sex twice per week with both of us having an orgasm and all of that. I must say, if my husband mentioned anal sex I would run screaming from the bedroom. I I'm also not into oral much. I'm suggesting the fact you're a freak in the bed and she is not may have nothing to do with her past religious affiliation. I do agree she should learn to explore her own body, but a distaste for those things may not necessarily be religiously motivated. I'm not religious and never have been. Finally, please don't have her watch porn. The things guys do to girls in porn are abusive and not rooted in respect or love. Speaking of porn though, that's about the only time a woman will pretend to enjoy taking 8 inches in her mouth...when she's 18,comes from an abusive home and its her only source of income. Sad...

I agree with Daydream11. You kind of do sound like a freak in the bedroom. I wouldn't be cool with some of the stuff you are suggesting your wife do. Nope!