I've been listening to an old interview of Rock Waterman by John Dehlin (Mormon Stories). Rock talks a lot about tithing and what it really means. His talking points revolved around D&C 119. Here's the specific section:

4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.

My main question here is, what does the word 'interest' mean? Rock Waterman says it means surplus at the end of the year, meaning after all normal living expenses are paid. I was always told that I needed to pay on my gross income. After reading Section 119 I am quite confused. But I know I won't get back all those thousands of dollars. :(

Why oh why did I read this????!!!!!

Now I'm getting bad tithing flashbacks from all the money

I gave over the years for tithing... Goddamn !!!!!!


Paying ten percent of all your earnings is what you pay

in tithing. Having said that, I wish I had it all back now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2017 11:00AM by saucie.

The RLDS (now Community of Christ,) does it this way: it tithes only on the net after the bills get paid ie, your 'disposable income.'

Maybe 'tis why it isn't nearly as wealthy or a corporation like the LDS has become, with its leaders living like royalty?

One of my TBM bros has always believed in paying on his gross income. His FIL, retired/bishop has said it's fine to pay on the net.

It's however the powers-that-be interpret it has been my experience.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2017 11:34AM by Amyjo.

It's *supposed* to be on "increase", but remember that LDS video of the kid who mowes a lawn and proudly receives ten silver dollars; his grandfather(?) tells him it's God's money, and he's such a great Heavenly Father that he only wants 10% of it back. Something like that.

It's kinda sick.

When you're a little kid growing up in the heartland of Idaho, we'd get out for what was known back then as "Potato Harvest," typically a two week vacation from school so we could go pick potatoes from the local farms.

We were paid something like 2-3 cents for each burlap bag we could fill. (There were even task masters roaming the fields telling us to 'work harder' and 'faster.' Cheap, lousy bastards.)

The little bit extra change we earned from that SLAVE LABOR we were still expected to pay our tithing from.
And.we.did.cheerfully.

Boy were we snookered!

Yep, been there, done that for a few years back in the late 50's and early 60's. I was so happy when I earned $6 for the day. That was for getting 100 sacks of potatoes picked! I never remember my parents making me pay tithing on any of that, but I might have forgotten about it.

That's terribly sad, Amyjo.

As a tbm, I pointed this out to the bishop one time. He said that was what it used to be, but, since we have revelation, the prophets have said that tithing is now supposed to be based on your gross income. I always wondered if business owners did that, since you would go out of business pretty quick if you tithed on your gross. And, if it was ok for them, why not me?

All the farmers/ranchers I knew paid "farm tithing"

Ten percent of the income from the farm less the expenses.

The expenses of course included the house payments, truck payment and maintenance etc.

Grandpa used to send the tenth calf born to the church farms once it was old enough.

I always thought God should earn his own money and build his own churches.

Keep two things in mind:

(1)
Mormon God does not vary in what he says.
D&C 3:2 For God doth not walk in crooked paths, neither doth he turn to the right hand nor to the left, neither doth he vary from that which he hath said, therefore his paths are straight, and his course is one eternal round.

(2)
LDS scripture states plainly that tithing is to be paid on any surplus beyond a person's needs.

Joseph Smith and Sydney Rigdon produced D&C 119:4 (1838). It states (emphasis added):

And after that, those who have been thus tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing LAW unto them FOREVER, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary defines "interest" as

5. Any surplus advantage.
Webster's defines "advantage" in pertinent part, as

7. Interest; increase; overplus.
In the 1820's, the word "interest" was synonymous with the phrase "surplus advantage."

A plain reading of the text leads to a harmony of meaning between the word "interest" and the phrase "surplus advantage".

But what about scriptural harmony? Can one find more scriptural meaning of "interest" to be "surplus"?

Yes.

There are at least two passages of scripture that explicitly teach a proper tithe is one-tenth of surplus.

1. The first passage of scripture is D&C 119:5, which is the next verse (emphasis added):

Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe THIS LAW, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you.
Significant meanings should be observed from verse 5. The phrase "this law," can only refer to the previous usage of the word "law" in verse 4, which states in pertinent part, "and this shall be a standing law". And the phrase "this law," namely "one-tenth of all their interest annually" in verse 4, is expounded in a clarifying manner as surplus properties in verse 5.

2. The second passage of scripture comes from the Joseph Smith Translation (JST) of the Bible. Smith and Rigdon also produced the JST. It is mostly in Rigdon's handwriting. JST Genesis 14:39. (emphasis added)

Wherefore Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him more than that which he had need.

This passage of scripture from the JST is not a mere relic of early Mormonism. The passage can be found in the current scriptures in the section Joseph Smith Translation. The LDS Church has included this In their printed scripture volumes as authoritative commentary.

Scriptural harmony between D&C 119, and JST Genesis 14:39 also resides in the concept that "interest" (D&C 119:4) is expounded as "surplus properties" (D&C 119:5), or in other words, "more than that which he had need" (JST Genesis 14:39).

(3) Conclusion
To understand the meaning of what is to be tithed, we are fortunate to find a simple harmony in meaning, between a plain reading of the text and LDS scripture; "interest" (v. 4) means "surplus properties" (v. 5).

LDS tithing is defined as "one-tenth of their surplus properties annually" (D&C 119:4,5), which means "more than that which he had need" (JST Genesis 14:39).

When I joined the church, my grandmother gave me enough money in my bank account to pay for college, tuition and books for 2 years, not enough for clothes or anything extra.
I was going to school, not working st the time, so I asked the bishop if I should tithe on my school money.
He was very nice and said it was money I earned after joining.
Is that right, or was he just being a human being?

My bishop explained to me when I was a freshman starting out in college not to worry about tithing as I was only doing work study on campus, and all my money was tied up into my education.

It seems bishops vary widely in their interpretation of what's an "honest" tithing.

To me it's whatever you can afford to pay (for those who tithe.)

Knowing it's members tithes that prop the general authorities up in their high paying jobs @ Temple Square, with all the perks and benefits that goes with that - I wouldn't support them even if I were still a member.

Where I go is based on pledges. What people are able and willing to donate on a year-to-year basis. Catholic churches operate like that, to my knowledge.

>>Where I go is based on pledges. What people are able and willing to donate on a year-to-year basis. Catholic churches operate like that, to my knowledge.

Yes, Catholic and most Protestant churches only ask what members personally feel they can give. While churches often ask individuals and families to make a pledge every year, it is done so the church can make up a budget.

I read a few years back that the average church donation per family in the U.S. is 2.6%. My estimate is anywhere between 1-3%.

Out of this amount, churches pay their mortgage, heat, lights, snow removal, grounds maintenance, and salaries for ministers, assistant ministers, youth ministers, organists, church secretaries, janitors, etc. They pay about 5-10% to their central governing body. Often churches budget for charitable endeavors in the community as well.

It seems to me that non-Mormon Christians get a lot back for a relatively small donation. Mormons would be justified in wondering where exactly their huge donations go to, since the Mormon church has "no paid ministry."

Howdy Tom! When I was a TBM at BYU, I was instructed to pay 10% on the money my parents gave me for living expenses. My parents gave me $100 a month—$50 for rent and $50 for food and living expenses. I gave the church $10, leaving me with $40 a month after rent was paid.

Eventually, I learned that my RM roommates didn’t pay tithing, nor were they expected to, on the money their parents gave them. My BYU bishop stated that they didn’t need to pay because tithing had already been paid by the parents. My parents didn’t pay tithing, thus I was expected to pay.

That bishop needs to be strung up by his hamstrings!

What hogwash!

Grrrr.....

What I learned from my father is that you lie about your income and tithe ten percent on that. So you're honest about the tithe derived from a lie. It's like laundering money, which the church itself does. Dear old Dad was quite the player.

By quoting written sources and trying to understand them you show you don't "get" the basic foundation of Mormoinism: obediance.

It's not about ideas and concepts such as "tithing" "chastity", etc. it's about doing what a living person above you such as your Bishop or Stake pres. tells you to do, and typically they tell you (or strongly imply) to divide each gross paycheck by 10 and pay that to TSCC before anything else.

To try to analyze scripture, past GA talks, etc and interpret for yourself is contentious and rebellious disobedience. Quit thinking, shut up and do as you're told.

Is tithing biblical ?

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is tithing biblical ?


Nope. Not as taught by TSCC (and any other church that uses the word).

--Tithing in the bible consisted of crops and flocks only, and only increase. In other words if you had 200 head of cattle, and 12 calves were born in 2017 you'd owe one calf (the tenth one born).

--Tithing only applied to landowners working the land granted to their tribe in Israel, NOT in any other country.

--Tithes went to THE temple in Jerusalem

--Wage earners, tradesmen (like Jesus), fishermen, tax collectors, etc did not owe a cent. Cash was not eligible for tithing, only produce of the land.

--Even the strictest most observant Orthodox Jews today don't tithe. They simply don't fall under that law, plus there's no Temple or Levitical Priests to give it to anyway.

--The term "Tithing" today is a clever marketing term to make a guilt-based cash donation program sound more Biblical. Its like calling a church van "the ark".

Good research. Yes.
And in the next breath, they tell you “the OLD testament is OLD and to be dissed for their NT and Book of Mormon fables.
We just use it to make money!

Not according to this...

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheTitheisIllegal.html

An honest tithe is one that you can report and keep a straight face?

It means no matter how you acquire money, even through fraud and crime, TSCC gets 10% of it and in return they deem you "worthy" to see your kids get married. No matter how big a crook or fraudster you are.

My dad would plant a few acres of potatoes every year for us to sell on the street. Our farm was in Corinne and we lived in Brigham. WE got a lot more than that for a bag full of potatoes. The bags we filled were 100 pound ones, but we earned good money and he paid the neighbor kids to do it, too. I was one of the slave laborers for everything from hoeing beets to picking tomatoes to even raking sheep poop out of the sheep pen. And it was slave labor, but you sure learn to work.

My parents didn't even consider us having to pay tithing as children. I started paying on my own at some time out of feelings of what was taught at church. I think we all started at a different time. I'm sure 3 of my siblings never paid a cent, so some of us were brighter than the rest.

I paid on gross until I got married and then my ex told me we were paying on net. That was fine with me.