IMO, it depends on whose bull is being gored.

For those who sit in church with blinders on, and enjoy the church community they are in, things may look OK.

But, those with noted imperfections may be looked-down on, or even shunned. As an example, consider the obvious:

. Those who smell like smoke.
. Those who don't wear 'Sunday-best' cloths.
. Those who refuse to accept a 'calling'.
. Women who wear long pants.
. Men who refuse to wear white shirts, a dark suit, and ties.
. Those who aren't considered as 'temple worthy'.

In other words, perfection--for the LDS--is to be achieved now, not in some distant other world.
---

In my case, I am already too perfect to suffer from any faults, so I am OK.
----

Q: Oh yea, what about my not going to church (among other things)?

A: I no longer need to go, as (remember) I have already reached perfection.
-----

(Do I hear gagging from some of you lowly RfM people?)

"Does the good done in the church, outweigh the bad?"

No.

pollythinks, I love what you said:

"IMO, it depends on whose bull is being gored."

Regardless of who's bull it is......is a bull being gored good?

Not a single thing "good" in the church is *unique* to the church. Every single "good" thing can be had elsewhere.
Without pay, pray, and obey.

So...no.

THIS↑

ALL the "good" things in the church you can find elsewhere--community, values (real ones), God/Christ (if it's something you need), youth groups, real pastoral care, and other life-affirming things.

But the bad things, the ones that rob you of your self-esteem, your sense of worth, your money, your relationships with family, your dignity, and burden you with totally unnecessary guilt, shame and ugly undies, can mean a lifetime of mental anguish and at worst, are deadly.

NO. It doesn't come close to outweighing the bad.

Good! What Good?

NO NO NO NO NEVER.


wait, what good? What good is done in the church?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2017 07:32PM by saucie.

Good? GoooooOOOOOOD? Oh Please, Mary!



Hell no!

What good is done?
There is some.

They generally teach people to be honest.
But they're hardly the only ones teaching that.

They generally teach people to not use alcohol/drugs.
But they're hardly the only ones teaching that, and there's nothing wrong with moderate alcohol use (in fact it can be good for you, as can coffee), and they teach it as a "command from god."

They generally teach people to care about their families. But then they contradict that by demanding they spend so much time away from them doing "church callings," they support shunning family members who don't believe or who are gay, etc.

So like I said, there's some good -- none of which is unique to mormons. Yet they like to think they ARE the only church teaching people to be honest, to love their families, to not be drunks or addicted to drugs -- which of course isn't the case at all. You don't need the church to learn those things -- and the church heaps on so much more BS that it's better to learn those things away from the church than in it.

Oh, you're referring to:

giving & enforcing unreasonable expectations,


splitting families, encouraging using 'religion' as a wedge between family members?


shaming people for trivial matters?


let.me.think on that...

It's a good lodge for narcissistic men and their female enablers.

You should win something for that one, Don!

Truer words never said!

Now THAT is a Double Bind question?
Why should we ever have to make that choice.
Like they say, cacao happens, but not intentionally or institutionally.
NO!!!

for me and my life. Everything that I have learned about being 'good" was just a part of who I am.

All that matters is if the church is “true.” Period!
Using a good or bad meter is not the point of religion, especially this religion. It is whether whatever it promises is true. It is like asking that question of an electric company that does not produce electricity. This company may have nice commercials, it may be involved in all kinds of charitable events. However, if it does not provide the electricity it was contracted to do who cares about the other stuff. If Mormonism cannot get you to so-called “Godhood” what good is it? (Not that I am trying to reach Godhood. It is what the church promises the faithful)

When I found out that it was impossible for the church to be true it was a matter-of-fact there-is-no-other-choice decision. Don’t go anymore. And I didn’t.

Those who know at least some of the bad--and the better word would be "rotten"--use the supposed good the church does as their excuse to ignore the damage Mormonism does to so many. This is true of some in my family.

I guess it coms down to numbers.

How many casseroles taken to a sick mother does it take to erase the fact that women are second class, young girls are indoctrinated to marry too soon, and never fulfill their dreams?

How many snowed in driveways of old ladies by the deacons does it take to erase the treatment of the gay kids? To alleviate the pain of their suicides?

How many wonderful words from the bishop does it take to erase the fact that he asks sexual questions to youth like he has A RIGHT to know? Making them feel like they owe a response, like they are owned.

How many Helping Hands Tee shirts have to be donned to erase the families split up because of Mormon shunning?

I could go on . . .

I don't think the good done in the church outweighs the bad, not be a long shot. Whatever good that happens there could easily happen and does with other organizations that do not demand 10%, do not claim special authority or push people to make loyalty oaths while wearing silly clothes.

so many shallow superficial things such as the tie and white shirt (to also better reveal your garments) and the "service" includes so much busy work that only benefits that church itself (indexing, cleaning the ward house, baking or doing chores to try to lure someone into the church or back). Personally I think it leads to a judgemental attitude about anyone not conforming to those "standards" (e.g., anyone who has a beer with a meal is a drunk, no tie means you're not "worthy").

So no, the so-called good doesn't outweigh the bad. There is a greater good that can be done either in other churches or through service with community charitable groups.

In Morland, there's most often a Hidden Agenda in everything, everyone;
That's why you should Never trust them.

That's my answer to your Good / Bad question...

To reiterate what others have said - all the "Good" in the church is freely available else without, for the most part, any bad. My great grandfather was an Anglican vicar. he tended his flock, the church and his counselling was available to all, whenever someone needed it. No tithing needed. No temple recommend requirement. No need to wear magic underpants, inform on your friends and neighbors or lecture teenagers about personal matters.

That's what Mormons don't understand - what they seek is out there and they'll actually feel good about it.

yet Another kicker for me was their mantra:

"the plain & precious truths (of Christ's gospel) were Left Out of the Bible"

Oh, like Honesty, Kindness, Repentance & Forgiving, Respecting others?


NO, those are actually IN THE BIBLE, more plainly than in the LDS scriptures (which are often diluted, ignored).

Game Over