We've had many conversations. She is determined. Feeling low and know this bunch can commiserate with me.

I'm so sorry.

In terms of 'looking on the bright side', it would be strange if it was everything she expected.


ETA:


I don't know that you'd be comfortable doing it, but tell "Emma" hi, from me!


http://www.fullerconsideration.com/templenameoracle.php



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2017 12:59PM by elderolddog.

I'd love to ask her about it but she says she doesn't want to talk about the temple. Maybe before she leaves for her mission...

We all make mistakes. She's making one now. The best you can do is be there for her and be a non-judgmental person she can talk to. She may have great hopes for going to the Temple. Most always these hopes are dashed, because it's so boring. After a while she's likely to get worn out by the church.

Brainwashing by the church will try to prevent her from ever confiding in you. If you can be supportive of her need to explore a path in life, while being caring and non-judgmental you'll give her someone safe to talk to. This is what she'll need the most.

LeftTheMorg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brainwashing by the church will try to prevent her
> from ever confiding in you. If you can be
> supportive of her need to explore a path in life,
> while being caring and non-judgmental you'll give
> her someone safe to talk to. This is what she'll
> need the most.

They've done their work well. This wedge is all the more harder since I've experienced the same things and come to conclusions I was abused and she still thinks it is enlightenment.

I can commiserate this much i know. Only person in my family to never go through the handshake building, i do know loneliness and misery very well.

You dodged a bullet, really. The mind scramble that becoming indoctrinating turbulent confusion and settles into rote, repetitive routine mental abuse like Chinese water torture using a toga was worth skipping.

Has to be so very hard to watch your own child get sucked into the cult. She's young. The church is old and rotting. Sooner or later they all have to start to notice the smell.

Forty years later I am the only one in the family to get out so it is hard for me to say to keep up hour hope. But you will. I really feel for you. Seems like you only get half a relationship with Mormons.

Maybe she will be so alarmed by the goings-on, the dress, the promises, etc. that she will walk out.....now or after additional consideration.

Hope for that!

I am and looking for signs of it.

You will have better insight if she returns to the temple...if not there will be your hint and opportunity

Gatorman

Good to know thanks.

Hey man, hang in there.

Happy holidays to you, good fella!

Human

Happy end of year enjoyments to you and yours. Stay human Human!

If you let her know in a lighthearted way that you know her new name, she might see right through it. It might be just the epiphany she needs. It's not secret/sacred if everyone knows it, and it's not special if everyone gets the same name.

The whole session was there for her. It made me sick. My aunt tried to pull a fast one on me, wrote me a special note, brought my mother's letters (that she had saved) to me that evening. Told me to get dressed up nice and sit on the sofa and get in the right mood so I could share in the moment. It was OFFENSIVE. She did drop off my mom's letters (which I was supposed to read and then allow my sisters a chance to read them--they are still in a chest tied up in the same tie she put them in and unread--I'll read them when I want to).

I did call my aunt out on her behavior. I didn't talk to her for months and then I told her what the lds church had done to my life. She was so relieved to hear from me. She thought I had cut her off for good.

What I get the biggest kick out of is that when she arrived back from Alaska the end of October, she took the opportunity to discuss with her father what she found freaky about the temple. She felt it was okay to talk to him as he had been through. I had told her many years ago what happened when you go through. Even with all the changes, my daughter was still freaked out. Although she has been attending once a week doing names for her boyfriend's mother. She told her dad that she went to the temple because that is what she is supposed to do. She still wears colored bras. That is what I get a big kick out of, too.

I was so pleased to hear what she told her dad. She would never have told me, but she knew her dad would tell me.

Even after all the changes since I last went through before 1990, it still freaked her out.

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Although she has been attending once a week doing
> names for her boyfriend's mother.

It might become boring and so seen as innocuous if not the enlightenment people "bear testimony" about it.

She's young; she can change. Time is on her side.

When I was a young adult I thought I needed TSCC to help me grow up. It provided a stable structure and a security net when I needed one. Once I was mature enough to see what I was into, it was then I started to see it for what it was: a cult. No longer a religion that was helping me to grow.

I was active as a young adult after my parents had gone inactive. They remained inactive for the rest of their lives. I was out mostly by my 30's.

Give her time. Change is possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2017 07:38PM by Amyjo.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Give her time. Change is possible.

I'll raise my glass of unapproved sacraments to that! Happy Holidays!

Bro hugs, Elder! I, too, was creeped out when my kids went to the temple. And, seeing my athletic sons wearing garments was painful.

As you know, elder, nothing she’s doing there has any meaning or significant—she’s still your daughter. She also at the age where she’ll defend the church simply because kids her age have limited world views.

Tell her you love her and respect her although you see things differently. It took me many years to tell me nevermo parents I had left the church. Why? Because they went apeshit crazy when I joined and I didn’t want to give them the satisfaction of being right about the church.

I always enjoy your insights and humor. Please vent away. Boner

BYU Boner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell her you love her and respect her although you
> see things differently. It took me many years to
> tell me nevermo parents I had left the church.
> Why? Because they went apeshit crazy when I joined
> and I didn’t want to give them the satisfaction
> of being right about the church.

LOL! Thanks Boner.

I think there is an element of rebellion against me in my kids. I'm the less good parent. My wife is a great parent but deluded in leading and guiding my kids to that terrible ritual and the tithes that go with it.

I simply don't get it. Why a bright, critical thinking, and head strong and independent minded young woman would submit to that and not have red flags and warning bells deafening the signs and tokens in her ears.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I think there is an element of rebellion against
> me in my kids. I'm the less good parent.

Probably, but rebellion is normal; it’s necessary or a child won’t ever leave the home.

BTW, I could have written your post! Here’s what happened many years ago with my daughter. My wife had been giving me shit when my daughter turned seven. My wife wanted me to do the baptism and confirmation. I didn’t want to do them because I didn’t believe in Mormonism.

When my beautiful daughter turned eight, she was interviewed to determine her worthiness for baptism. I’m going to let that sink in, a child was being grilled to determine WORTHINESS for BAPTISM!

My wife fought with me until finally I talked to the bishop. He was a turd. He told me he knew this was tearing my marriage apart, “But, I’ve got to protect the church.”

That’s right, Elder, a Boner is going to destroy Mormonism! Fuck! I wish I could just hurt it a little. Anyhow, I told him I understood, BUT he would have to tell my daughter that her father was a bad man. A day later, he reconsidered.

He told me I could baptize because I’m a Christian, but couldn’t confirm—that was a higher ordinance. HA! Show me confirmation in the New Testament! So, I baptized, my FIL confirmed. I felt disgusted with myself for being a part of something so evil. I told my wife I would NEVER be put into that situation again, and that the bishop was a shitty theologian. The option of baptizing other kids was never raised.

My daughter despised me through adolescence. She married in the temple, and I stood outside. I celebrated the day with her and my new SIL. Many years later, guess who they come to with big questions or when they’re hurting? The Mom with the Sunday School answers or the Dad who has always been there supporting them?

Stay cool, Elder, fuck the cult, but don’t take anger on the wife or kids. Your children will come back to you (actually, they never really will leave you). Be the man who loves his kids and tells them why he loves them. They are yours Elder. You are like me—a good, but imperfect, man. That’s the way we’re supposed to be, Bro.

I’ve read your posts over the years. You’re smart, genuine, compassionate, and overcome a difficult growing up. In other words, you’re fuckin’ remarkable! If I can glean that from your posts, think of what your kids pick up! Bro hugs, man!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2017 11:58PM by BYU Boner.

This is a very wise post.

Kids rebel. Just love her, EB, and she'll have less to rebel against. When the doubts arise, as they inevitably will, she'll come to her loving father and seek comfort and advice.

In intimate personal relationships influence comes from, and through, respect and acceptance. Perhaps she can't give those to you now, but you can give them to her.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In intimate personal relationships influence comes
> from, and through, respect and acceptance.

It sure is hard though. I'm not treated like a second class member of my little family but I sure feel like an outsider sometimes.

> Perhaps she can't give those to you now, but you
> can give them to her.

Thanks for the kind encouragement. I will try to live up to it.

Thank you Boner. That is rough about the baptism. The shit we take for refusing to re-birth our children into Mormonism is a great and time spacious building that is their temples. Just as they are learning to learn and grow we are forced to go through spiritual child labor just to a little over a decade later take them to get naked before their elders and promise their lives to a corporation.

Instead of dunking my children I had to endure their tears in my refusal to bury them in water only to snatch them back to a life of drudgery and servitude to a corporation of old and intolerant men.

Thanks for your post. You are a good man Charlie Brown. I had a cousin named that. He was Hugh B. Brown's grandson. And we are cousins too! Happy Holidays with your brood cousin!

Find out the "secret temple name" for the day. Have someone call
him up at 3:00 am and say, in a "death metal" voice, "I know your
temple name is __________. You are now in my power!"

This is so funny I nearly peed my pants.

Thanks everyone. It really helped out. I wish I had the balls to scream "I know your name is Emma" in my best "Let The Bodies Hit The Floor" voice but then I'm reminded she got an appropriate "new name." The founder's wife and probably co-conspirator in being complicit with this sexist, abusive, patriarchal nonsense.