Going incognito for this one...

My daughter goes to school in Fredericksburg, Virginia. I took her back earlier this past Monday when the semester started up. There's a Waffle House we like on Route 17, because it's usually quick, food is good, and they're open late.

On Monday night I stopped after dropping her, because I had about an hour drive home and I was hungry. I ordered as I sat down because I knew what I wanted. The waitress vanished, not to be seen again until I was basically done. The cook brought my food over, and I still had no drink, so I asked him if he could bring it (which he did). I had also asked for gravy to go with my dish, and it was missing, so I asked for that, and he brought it. Actually, it's not accurate to say that I never saw her again, because I did: running in and out to the parking lot. Dancing by the jukebox, and goofing around with the other waitress.

I kind of wanted a slice of pie, but gave up, and got up to go to the register to hunt down my check. At that point she bolted over, said, "oh good, you got your gravy," as if she was taking care of me, drops my check on the table and bolts back to the juke box. So, if she was worried about my gravy, why not check on me 10 or 20 minutes earlier? Or offer me a refill, or ask if I want some dessert, or just check on me at all?

I wanted to say, "can I tip the Cook and not the waitress?" Instead, I left no tip at all...

So, fast forward to today... gonna pass through town so I ask my daughter if she wants to have dinner. Yes, she says. My heart sinks when she says she wants Waffle House, but fortunately it's a different crew when we roll in at about 8:45. At least I thought it was fortunate...

We ordered our food, and we're the only customiers in there, so the waitress leans on the end of the booth, closer to me than my daughter is. No biggie...it's a casual place...except that she's conversing with the other waitress who is clear across the shop! She's literally yelling over our heads. I couldn't hear myself think, let alone my daughter. And it's not like she was also talking to us. She was just parked there.

To make matters worse, when she brought the food, she dropped the check on the table and said she was leaving. Not sure what she meant, I looked at her inquisitively, and she said I needed to pay the check. Of course, what she means is that she wants her tip. We're barely starting our meal, and she's gonna leave and not be serving us, but she wants us to settle up. I paid the check, but knowing that we're gonna be sitting there a while, and that someone else was going to be looking after us, getting refills, dessert, cleaning up our plates, etc (I opted to give her "half" a tip (10%), and planned to tip whomever took over the other "half," plus if we wanted dessert we were gonna have to open another check.

Well, a nice lady did take over, but only after a while. She picked up all the dirty dishes, etc. She must have asked three or four times if we'd already paid the check when she noticed my copy of the charge slip. The first waitress had asked if I wanted a receipt, but then never brought one, and left the second waitress in the awkward position of not knowing what to do. Finally I told her to go look in their drawer for the slip that matched the number on mine.

So, we sat there a while, but ended up getting no dessert again. The second/nice waitress brought my daughter a glass of water, and that's it. Oh, and at one point she said, "I don't know where your waitresss went." I said, "I think she left." She came back a minute later and said "you're right." It was after this that she started worrying about our check.

It's disappointing because it's usually pretty good, and the service is usually better.

I'm I crazy to be agitated by the bad service?

No, you're not crazy. The people working at that restaurant are. You'd think the wait staff would be slightly more professional, especially if they expect a tip.

I used to live in Fredericksburg.

You might not have enough tattoos to eat at Waffle House. They have standards.

Not crazy. You weren't asking for anything more than customary service. The lax waitresses did not perform the duties for which they expected to be paid. They don't sound trained, experienced nor managed. They performed more like cashiers at a superstore, if even that. If you had wanted a pre-wrapped, cold sandwich from Wally world, you would have gone to Wally world. Agitation is a restrained response. Service is a part of the price in a restaurant, even a Waffle House.

For whatever reason, certain restaurants tend to attract the bottom of the barrel when it comes to waiters and cooks. It might be the management or a low base wage and tips. In my town, I've learned to avoid one particular chain restaurant.

If you've never waited tables, it's a more complex job than you would think. I was never very good at it, but I was good at cooking.

These people aren't working - they are 'going to work' (for money) [yet they rarely, if ever, arrive].

That's ONE REASON I rarely eat at the awful house (and other places).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2018 03:15AM by readwrite.

The one time I was in america (business), the waitresses at the local sports bar where we ate competed with each other for how much tips they could earn in one shift. The record apparently was $400. One girl could take the order for an entire table of fourteen and get it all right. That feat merited not just a tip but praise from we brits in the group.

I know tips are included and relied upon as wages by some, but just because someone is 'present' during their shift (like readwrite noted) should not ensure they should be rewarded for doing their job badly.

Opie, you are not wrong to expect good service - younger people in europe wonder why we call their generation of bottom-rung work entry types 'snowflakes' but they cannot even be bothered to be good mannered, as if common courtesy has to be earned by strangers before given to them. It is called 'common' for a reason and can also be described as 'garden variety', ie everywhere.

My husband and myself spent a couple of years hammering the importance of good manners into my nephew and when he finally 'got it' he noticed how everyone older than him seemed to treat him differently almost overnight. He does hospitality work now where he gets tips and his good manners earn him quite a bit more than other low-level part time staff.

Manners seem to have begun their disappearance not long after chivalry was demoted to 'sexism' by militant 'feminists'.

anonuk wrote:

"...chivalry was demoted to 'sexism' by militant 'feminists'."



What a mouthful of garbage.

Chilvary cannot "be demoted," as acts of courtesy are a choice. The effects I see are that not only do men keep that door from swinging shut on others, but so do women. Polite, kind and unselfish behavior can be practiced by anyone, anytime; this attitude and behavior was never exclusive to men.

Chauvinism, an attitude of superiority, can also be practiced by anyone, and is usually repulsive no matter whom displays it. Sexism puts that attitude into detrimental effect, attempting to deny equal rights to members of the opposite sex.

"Militant" has been conscripted by those in fear of losing power, to imply that those in opposition to their power are rebels, and could arm themselves at any moment. It is a fear tactic. The term is more rightly used when describing those carrying actual weapons.

Feminism is the advocacy of political, social and economic equality of women, not the debasement of chivalry.

You ruined what would have otherwise might have been decent point, by finishing it with a Faux News chump line. You couldn't stop yourself from slamming others, under the guise of "support." The OP wrote about poor service given by waitresses, and you associated that poor service with feminism, immediately following the story of your nephew's (a male's) poor manners. Did his poor manners mean he was a feminist, and now he's not? Are you stating that since he's now polite, he's no longer a feminist, and doesn't believe in equality for women?

Those are rhetorical questions, only written to inform you of the faulty beliefs, and the lack of thought that went into your attempted O/T political insult. It has no teeth.

Thanks for that. well said.

Sounds reasonable, but why does “manners” start with “man”?

I'm female and grew up through the 'equal opportunities' 80s which I am all for as this includes minorities, and I have nothing but support for those who started to achieve the liberation of women from constrictive societal roles - I caught the tail end of girls doing what the men told them to.

However, I liked getting heavy things carried for me and doors held open that little bit longer than is polite and I watched my male friends change one by one after suggestions that they were perhaps being sexist in assuming that girl/woman/elderly person wanted assistance. The new way to think was that if someone wants help they will ask and for a male to offer assistance was to perpetuate gender stereotypes - primarily male superiority over inferior women. This was reinforced by college and television and even music. Sex was discussed as a form of violence and marriage was a described as merely a sexual slavery contract.

The result I have seen from this pro feminist environment over the past 30-odd years and two generations (here in the UK at least) is a new generation all wrapped up in their own sense of importance (not always a bad thing) bundled together with a sense of entitlement without having any obligations to society at all, who seem to find something new to be offended about every other day but present no real soutions to the problems they seek out.

I'm sorry you chose to take what I had written about militant feminism (words are the current weapon of choice) bringing about the downfall of chivalry as a sexist construct within society as something offensive but that is your prerogative as you do not have to agree with me. I am also sorry that you chose to make the gender of the waiting staff and my nephew (my only niece or nephew of working age which is why I used him as an example) an issue. Perhaps you are more gender biased than you accuse me of being, since you saw this as a gender issue, rather than a generational one, which is the point I believed myself and the opie was making?

One final point, you said:

'Feminism is the advocacy of political, social and economic equality of women, not the debasement of chivalry'

I beg to differ, I feel feminism is the advocacy of the superiority of women to men, not their equality. I am all for equal opportunities for all, but not at the expense of any other group.

>
> One final point, you said:
>
> 'Feminism is the advocacy of political, social and
> economic equality of women, not the debasement of
> chivalry'
>
> I beg to differ, I feel feminism is the advocacy
> of the superiority of women to men, not their
> equality. I am all for equal opportunities for
> all, but not at the expense of any other group.



I grew up in the 50s, when women could not get a credit card without their husband's signature. "Help Wanted" ads in the newspapers were segregated "Help Wanted-Male" and "Help Wanted-Female." Woe to any woman who went after a "sales manager" position in the "Male" section! I once saw an ad that read, "Wanted--cute, perky young lady for Girl Friday position in busy office. Over 30, overweight, or colored need not apply." I was told that the man hired the same day that I was in a bank (both being tellers) was making twice as much as I was because "He's a man and someday will have a family to support." I said, "I'm divorced and have a child to support now, and you said I scored higher on your "entry to hire" test than anybody who had ever taken it." They said, "Yes, but you're a pretty girl. You'll get married again."

I was marching in "Women's Lib" marches with my baby daughter in her stroller in 1972, when women made something like 69 cents for every dollar men made. Yes, I was discriminated against many times in many ways and there was NADA I could do about it then. But it's one reason I'm still working at 76.

Sorry about your misinformation about feminism. This has nothing to do with chivary, or common everyday politeness. I hold as many doors for guys as they hold for me, and that's fine. Where is there a problem with this? First one to door, hold it for next. Next person after you has burden to carry? Hold the damn door, male or female.

Feminism is simply the radical belief that women are people who are entitled to the same privileges offered to those who are not women. (Same with the "colored" as noted in the 1950s classifieds.)

Men lose NOTHING by women gaining rights. Nothing. But we gain so, so, much by being recognized as equals! I really cannot understand how/why there are those who don't see this!? The "reverse racism" argument means nothing with gender, as it means nothing with race.

anonuk, Google "feminism definition" and *beg* the dictionary companies to comply with your personal definitions. I could only speculate as to where you might be learning definitions, but they sound alternatively familiar. Please link a well-known dictionary reference that matches your understanding of feminism being "female superiority."

btw, to try bring it back toward the topic, here in the US, (mostly female, but male waiters, too) waitresses typically earn a fraction of the hourly wages that the mostly male, minimum-wage cooks earn in that same restaurant, because tips (gratuities) are expected to meet the balance of that minimum wage for waitresses. So, if a cook makes horrible food, he gets paid by the restaurant, no matter what, but the waitress who serves that horrible food may get no tips because the food was horrible, thus her making less than a third of what the cook did. Completely legal business practice.

In a restaurant such as Hooters, a sports-themed bar and grill, the young, well-built all-female wait staff who wear very skimpy attire,l makes well above minimum wage in tips, but then, they are being compensated for providing "atmosphere." Sort of flirty, friendly cheerleaders with food.

The just-as-good-looking, just-as-friendly-but-maybe-not-so-flirty fully dressed waitress at the Waffle House will not net near the cold hard cash as the Hooters waitress.

So, the Waffle House waitress who made a third of what the cook did, were she to carry a sign in a march that read, "Equal Pay For Women" would be a militant feminist" to you? Understand, she might be marching next to another women, maybe a Hooters waitress, carrying a sign that reads, "My Body My Choice" - would the waitresses both be militant feminsts then?

Why do you suppose our lawmakers don't force restaurants to pay all employees at least minimum wage, and allow a gratuities jar by the cashier, for the restaurant owner/manager to divvy out? It would then be in everyone's best interests to serve the best food possible.

Feminism is not about equality in a single political sphere of reality. Other factors you should consider are our differing countries. The ages of the nations and laws, total population, systems of governance (federal+state), percentages of male-to-female lawmakers, victim's rights and services, paid/unpaid healthcare, mandatory paid time off, all things you seem to take for granted, and assume that women in the US have free access to. Not so. You speak/write from a much more protected existance, but seem oblivious to that.

And again, whether or not you are able to communicate your needs to your male friends, if you asked one of them to cart a box for you, rather than having to read your mind, are you saying that that friend would be too fearful of you to say "Yes?"

I can ask a total stranger, male or female, to please assist me, which most often they *do* read my mind before I can even ask, and I have yet to receive a flat-out "No." Sometimes I err in asking someone with a concealed condition that makes helping impossible, but that is rare. I don't expect anyone to read my mind, preferences or intent. If I want to change lanes, I use my turn signal. If i need help with a box, I'm polite enough to ask directly, with a "please" and a "thank you." To my mind, it's more "militant" to expect that all males stand at the ready to meet your needs without your even having to whisper a "please." Much more so. As an adult, I own my needs and desires, and am able to communicate them in polite ways.

Instead of agonizing what to leave for a tip, why not speak to the manager, which is what you would do in any other (non-tipped) industry. Policing employee behavior is not your job, it is the manager's.

It was lousy service!

Once it happened you would like to think the waitress was either having a bad day, or is an airhead.

Twice in a row, I'd be looking for somewhere else to take my business next time passing through that part of town.

It's pretty nervy to expect you to pay for your meal and tip before you've eaten. Especially with lousy service to begin with.

Tipping is not something I need to be coaxed into doing, when the service is good. I tip well. When it's lousy, I may still leave something, but chances are I won't go back again. Paying to eat out is for the ambiance as much as the food. You expect quality service, it's part of what you're there for.

Regarding Waffle Visit #1:

Rather than leave no tip, consider leaving a very small amount of change. This signals the waitress that the lack of a tip was not an oversight.

Regarding Waffle Visit #2:

Easy to Monday quarter-back, but options might have been (1) insist upon paying at the conclusion of the meal, saying, "We haven't decided upon desert or coffee. I'll pay then, thank you." (2) Pay the bill as it stands, and continue your meal. Let the greedy shrew stand around hoping for her tip. Tip the 2nd waitress accordingly.

Sometimes you notice a difference between an inexperienced server and a bad one, and you can tip them accordingly. I have, on occasion, given a novice waiter a reasonable tip and a few discrete words about handling his job properly (advice).

In addition to Brother of Jerry's sound thoughts on speaking to the manager, one might also post a bad review.

I've always taken pride in living up to expectations on every job I can recall. I felt compelled to give value for what ever money I received.

Obviously, this wait person doesn't deserve the job. As a customer you can let her know you don't enjoy being mistreated by leaving only a couple of dimes for a tip or by giving a tip directly to the chef instead of to her.

Trying to get service from people who 'know' themselves to be entitled is an exercise in futility.

"No job truly defines the person who holds it, but how he or she carries out the job's duties, does."
- - Judic West, from his potty-training novel, "Thunder Road"

Waffle House Rule #1 (and the ONLY rule)

NEVER eat at a Waffle House when you're sober!!!