You're free to practice, promote, enforce, etc., your "legal" religious beliefs at your place of worship or in the privacy of your home, on your own time, but not in the public sector.
In other words, you can't impose your beliefs on others in any way, except among the willing adherents of the religion.
Jonny the Smoke Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What Hie said and.... > > You're free to practice, promote, enforce, etc., > your "legal" religious beliefs at your place of > worship or in the privacy of your home, on your > own time, but not in the public sector. > > In other words, you can't impose your beliefs on > others in any way, except among the willing > adherents of the religion.
And the government can't force you to change your beliefs or do anything against your beliefs
Jonny the Smoke Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What Hie said and.... > > You're free to practice, promote, enforce, etc., > your "legal" religious beliefs at your place of > worship or in the privacy of your home, on your > own time, but not in the public sector. > > In other words, you can't impose your beliefs on > others in any way, except among the willing > adherents of the religion.
My favorite part of this type of freedom of religion is the regular rounding up and jailing of those found discussing or promoting religion in public.
Next up is freedom of speech. You can express your opinions freely at home or in buildings dedicated to like-minded individuals. As with our expansive freedom of religion, we'll throw you in jail for expressing opinions in the public square that are contrary to what is deemed to be orthodoxy at the moment. To be on the safe side, whenever one of our friendly speech monitors asks for your opinion, just say, "I completely agree with whatever the Noble Leader says."
We're working through our wonderful expansion of freedom of assembly as well. Until we get the kinks worked out, we suggest that whenever you're in a public place, just don't allow yourself to stand any closer than 6 feet to anyone else.
Freedom is wonderful, and we're fighting to preserve yours!
No, actually, "next up" is just not bugging other people with your brand of religion. "Bugging" being the keyword. A "not interested" response should end it. Practice as you see fit and leave others alone. No need for public prayer, proselytizing in public or entering a person's private property, state/ gov endorsed religion, etc. What part of that takes you to putting people in jail for discussing religion?
Jonny the Smoke Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No need for public prayer, > proselytizing in public or entering a person's > private property, state/ gov endorsed religion, > etc. What part of that takes you to putting people > in jail for discussing religion? > > Geez....Tall Man, Short Fuse?
What are the rules you see? If someone is preaching in public and you don't like what they're saying, are you okay just walking away, or should they be prohibited from public preaching?
> What are the rules you see? If someone is preaching in public and you don't like what they're saying, are you okay just walking away, or should they be prohibited from public preaching?
Preaching on a street corner? Walk away.
Preaching on a street corner, next to outdoor seating at a restaurant, that becomes a nuisance to the restaurant patrons? Prohibited, as soon as a proprietor or patron complains. The preacher needs to walk away.
Preaching in a public park where people are reading beneath the shade of a tree, or playing with their kids, dog, etc? Prohibited under the same circumstances described above.
Preaching to a lunchmate at a table in a public restaurant, seated next to my table? Tune them out or eat fast and leave.
Preaching in their backyard, which is next to mine, which is a nuisance to me when I'm enjoying my backyard? Think about moving.
Tall Man, Short Hair Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My favorite part of this type of freedom of > religion is the regular rounding up and jailing of > those found discussing or promoting religion in > public.
Nothing in what I or Johnny said prohibits (or makes illegal) the "discussing or promoting [of] religion in public."
Individuals, in our definition, are always free to do so. Governments aren't (as are those acting as representatives of the government while acting as representatives of the government).
So...yeah, that's a straw-man.
> Next up is freedom of speech.
Since speech and religion are two different things...no.
> You can express your > opinions freely at home or in buildings dedicated > to like-minded individuals. As with our expansive > freedom of religion, we'll throw you in jail for > expressing opinions in the public square that are > contrary to what is deemed to be orthodoxy at the > moment. To be on the safe side, whenever one of > our friendly speech monitors asks for your > opinion, just say, "I completely agree with > whatever the Noble Leader says."
As that not-apt comparison wasn't apt to begin with, and since (as I pointed out above) it's based on a straw-man...no.
As with religion, you're free to say anything you like in public, as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others (such as libel, or yelling "fire" in a crowded theater).
Nobody said anything about restricting public discussion (or even action, unless it infringes on the rights of others).
...unless you happen to be a hapless child-victim of ignorant TBM parents who force their absurd beliefs upon you. Then you will not have an opportunity, under the Bill of Rights, to choose for yourself what to believe or not.
I read Johnny's post right after mine as what the term "religious freedom" means to HIM, and what he'd prefer in his own life (not having religion forced on him). I didn't take any implication that what he'd prefer must be law, and that people who acted differently must be locked up.
TMSH came away with an entirely different "interpretation."
Well, there is a problem when rights are limited based upon subjective criteria, and that's the reason for my hyperbole.
Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is an objective danger and should be stopped. Yelling "Turn or burn" on a street corner or public park within earshot of picnics and kids, maybe not.
I'm all for having enforceable nuisance laws, but these can be abused and used to target groups for selective enforcement. And I'm not convinced there's great merit in "your rights end where mine begin." We actually have quite a few overlapping and competing rights that we juggle as a society. We strive to maintain an equilibrium, but often one group sacrifices some of their rights for a superior right exercised by another group. That's part of the cost of freedom, and part of the ongoing friction that is part of a healthy free society.
I'm pretty sure that living in a healthy free society sometimes means you'll have an obnoxious street preacher or protest march that you'll be exposed to from time to time without any real recourse. And while I may hate that message they convey, I'll delight that their freedom is also mine.
Tall Man, Short Hair Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm pretty sure that living in a healthy free > society sometimes means you'll have an obnoxious > street preacher or protest march that you'll be > exposed to from time to time without any real > recourse. And while I may hate that message they > convey, I'll delight that their freedom is also > mine.
I can go to the church of my choice without worrying about being harassed for doing so.
From my observation and experience,'Religious Freedom' also allows for the following:
. Non-believing Mormon's can (and have) picketed on the sidewalk in front of the L.A. Temple, (but not on the church-owned property it's self); while believing Mormons come and go as they wish without fear of being harassed.
. In support of one's religion one can picket on the sidewalk in front of our local airport facility, but may not interfere with the other people present; and also, may picket on the public sidewalk off the street in front of the entrance to the airport proper, without fear of being arrested.
. Beggars who are allowed to sit down in front of store entrances, spouting (or holding signs) regarding their religious doctrine ('God Saves'), with a collection box handy for donations for their cause (often, the cause being their own self). (And in front of freeway entrances.)
. Pershing Square, a square block in the middle of a L.A. business area, regularly 'hosts' people who get up on their own block, to preach whatever they want to preach. No one bothers them (let alone, listens).