I hear a lot of discussion online about Mormon claims versus: - the Bible - bad behavior of the church, its leaders, or members - church history - criticism of church doctrine regarding race or gender
However, wouldn't it make sense to point out that many of the claims that the church makes can be tested against the physical world?
For example:
No proof exists that heavenly beings descend and ascend from the sky. This just does not happen in the physical world.
Nor do heavenly beings appear from nowhere in upstairs bedrooms.
Things that happen in the real world have physical or scientific explanations or they did not really happen.
Well...despite my reputation, I wouldn't agree with, "Things that happen in the real world have physical or scientific explanations or they did not really happen."
Simply because lots of things happen for which we simply don't *know* the explanation.
I think it's just as big a mistake to claim they MUST have "physical or scientific explanations" (though those are by far the most likely) as it is to claim they "came from god" or "came from spirits." When we don't know, we don't know. Period. Claiming we DO know when we don't is neither useful nor honest.
I think it's more honest and reasonable to simply point out that we don't know -- and that lacking evidence, we aren't going to know. Which means ASSUMING the claimed thing happened, or ASSUMING we know the explanation, are both fallacies.
Take Smith's claimed visit from Moroni:
Is there any reliable, testable evidence to show that visit actually occurred?
No.
So there's no reason to assume it DID occur. Or "believe" it.
End of story.
Mormons often assert that "unless you can prove it didn't happen, it did!" Not only is that a fallacy, it can get the person not accepting that it happened to start proffering all sorts of *potential* explanations -- of which there are an almost infinite number, but none of which can be shown by evidence to be the case (any more than the mormon can show evidence the visit occurred). Some of those (outright lying, for example) are far more plausible than a heavenly visit from a long-dead guy...but they're just as speculative.
I think it's sufficient to point out the mormon claims that can be shown false by ample evidence (the supposed "translation" of the Book of Abraham, for example -- demonstrably false), and point out the worthless assumptions mormons make (such as "believing" in the Moroni visit story when there's no reasonable cause to do so), without falling into the same trap they're in of making unsupportable assumptions.
My $0.02. :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2018 02:59PM by ificouldhietokolob.
No proof exists that heavenly beings descend and ascend from the sky. This just does not happen in the physical world.
Nor do heavenly beings appear from nowhere in upstairs bedrooms.
Things that happen in the real world have physical or scientific explanations or they did not really happen. _________________________________________________________
I agree that no 'scientific or verifiable proof' exists for 'spirits' at all.
Some on this board have claimed in the past to seeing angels and spirits.
The library and net have a lot of 'anecdotal evidence' of these type of things.
I have not personally seen a 'spirit' in a fully awake situation. However, spirits have appeared to me during dreams and meditation with specific information for me. Since I believe in having access to all current, past and future information through various intuitive techniques that could be the source for most of the information I receive now.
I agree that proving the 'church' wrong would be easier by the history, etc. type evidence.