We did have to get sealed after adoption.

So I'm guessing BIC doesn't cover anyone who went to the temple to be sealed to their parents.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I'm guessing BIC doesn't cover anyone who went
> to the temple to be sealed to their parents.

Correct, Cheryl... sealed to parents after birth is not BIC.

No you are not BIC because you were not born to your adopted parents.

To be born in the covenant the parents must have already been married/sealed in the temple and then any children they have are BIC.

That is why you had to be sealed after the adoption.

That's how I see it too. BIC spirits are especially special because their parents were sealed before the spirit entered the womb.

I don't count myself as BIC even tho I was raised in TSCC, because only my mother was a member, my father was a never-mo atheist.

lillium Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's how I see it too. BIC spirits are
> especially special because their parents were
> sealed before the spirit entered the womb.
>

A pregnant and worthy woman may be sealed before delivery. The baby will be BIC.

If the baby is born prior to the woman being sealed, the baby is not BIC. The baby will need to be sealed post birth. (per LDS logic :)

I was always slightly stung when it was said that those who are born into it were super righteous and valiant in the war in heaven.

maria Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was always slightly stung when it was said that
> those who are born into it were super righteous
> and valiant in the war in heaven.

I remember the sting but hey maria you were more valiant than I was since you got adopted :-)

I was an orphan and remained a foster child my whole life and the missionaries taught me that I was even less valiant than children born to parents that were not LDS and less valiant than children adopted to LDS and non-LDS families. Yep, because I was the dreaded "I" word.....illegitimate.

Pretty fu**ed up eh?

I'm sorry, Helen. No one deserves that sort of treatment!

Helen Wrote:

> I was an orphan and remained a foster child my
> whole life and the missionaries taught me that I
> was even less valiant than children born to
> parents that were not LDS and less valiant than
> children adopted to LDS and non-LDS families. Yep,
> because I was the dreaded "I"
> word.....illegitimate.
>
> Pretty fu**ed up eh?

Judgmental (heavy emphasis on the "mental" part) little pricks.

Glad you gave the cult and all its assinine teachings the heave ho. Sorry for the hurt.

Coming out whole from the foster home system is an accomplishment. When most young adults at the age of 18 are still dependent on their parents, foster children are put out to fend for themselves .

quoth the raven nevermo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Judgmental (heavy emphasis on the "mental" part)
> little pricks.
>
> Glad you gave the cult and all its assinine
> teachings the heave ho. Sorry for the hurt.
>
> Coming out whole from the foster home system is an
> accomplishment. When most young adults at the age
> of 18 are still dependent on their parents,
> foster children are put out to fend for themselves
>

I was the first and only foster child that the Province put through nursing. I didn't come out whole but with good therapy I have healed. I've been an RN for forty years, Psychiatry and Hospice. Been married to DH for 43 years and one child, a daughter BIC :-) and our little family of three left the church when DD was three and a half. Life is good, very good.

I was vulnerable when I met the missionaries and they assigned a family to me that took me under their wing and loved me and _THEN_ after baptism is when the missionaries told me I wasn't valiant in the pre-existence. They also told me I wasn't as valiant because I wasn't born in the United States.

WTF? Then why are you in my country looking for converts.

And I spent the next 13 years trying to be the best Mormon I knew how, making up for not being valiant in the pre-existence.

Oh yes, I am happy I gave that "cult and all its assinine teachings the heave ho."

Thanks for your comments quoth the raven nevermo.

Helen Wrote

Life is good, very good.
>

And that is the best revenge when dealing with the morg!

They honestly think you can't be happy with out their magic undies and secret handshakes. What wilful ignorance.

Your multiple posts have nothing to do with the original posters question.

How many married and sealed Mormons give up a healthy baby for adoption? And adoption records are sealed so how would the person even know if their birth parents were married and sealed Mormons?

Do you alienate people in real life by monopolizing conversations with your (often) imaginary facts? Since you love the sight of your words I assume you also love the sound of your own voice.

this was to go under Helens post...sorry!
and the MoMo's are SOOO proud their clergy are not paid!!! OR TRAINED!!! douche bags!~! sorry that is an insult to douche bags!! :(



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 10:04AM by bignevermo.

if there really was a war.... woudnt "THE ALMIGHTY" win?? i mean no contest!!!
B-orn
I-n
C-raziness
why would ya want that??
that war in "heaven" crap has always bugged me! Pre-existense and choosing your parents??? YIKES!~
YEP
B-orn
I-n
C-raziness!!

Someone who is adopted by LDS parents, even when the parents are already sealed, must be sealed to the parents. My adopted niece has been sealed to my brother and his wife, despite the fact that my brother married in the temple.

These adoption sealings are where the church is super hypocritical. If a family adopts a child, and there are already BIC children in the family, the new child must be sealed to the parents. But, guess who gets to attend the sealing -- the BIC children.

Younger siblings are barred from attending sealings of their older siblings to their spouses because they have not gone through the temple. But, if a new sibling is being sealed to a parent, then the BIC children get to be there too.

I once sent a letter to Hinckley asking about this discrepancy. I was told to make my younger brothers and sisters understand how important a temple marriage was. The response assumed I was engaged. I really wanted an answer. I was not engaged.

Gross!

Get to the back of the chapel with the single moms, converts, "lamanites," "Seed of Cain," divorcee, second-class Mormon citizens.

You forgot the Men who don't seem to want to marry, childless couples, men with facial hair, flip-flop wearers, and those who don't have their own quad!

If your birth parents and your adoptive parents were all members of the LDS, then I would say, yes you were BIC. The "B" is for "born" not "sealed"

I don't really see any reason to spend much time on this, if you were 100% raised in TSCC, I don't seem much reason why it would make a difference if your birth parents were LDS or not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 05:08PM by MJ.

But "C" is for Covenant which you parents had to be in in order for you to be "B" Born there. The only way an adopted child was BIC is if their birth parents were sealed IMHO.

BIC is a birthright blessing.

Per the LDS website, a child BIC can not have the sealing to either parent changed by adoption, divorce, or sealing cancellation of the birth parents. The children are not sealed to just the PH holder, as some have said on threads in the past. Birthright of child.

My story. I was excommunicated, requested sealing cancellation, denied (3 times with many conversations over a 3 decade period). I had a letter from Spencer W. Kimball stating my children remained sealed to me--- and to their father, even with me, an excommunicated member. My children had a birthright blessing.

If the temple sealed parents divorce, the children remain sealed to the each parent, regardless of the parent's status. It is the BIC child's sealing, not either parents. If the parents have sealing cancellation granted post divorce, the BIC children still remain sealed to each parent as a birthright blessing.

Now dear Maria, it is all made up and ridiculous crap. I am sorry you and Helen or any child in that LDS cult were given such a stupid guilt trip. ((Hugs, ladies))

wings



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 12:28PM by wings.

If the situation later changes and the child needs to be sealed to different parents, that would not change the fact that the child was born to sealed parents, thus BIC.

Actually, the LDS sight states BIC children can not be be sealed to any other parent because they are already sealed at birth, and that is a birthright blessing. A birthright can not be canceled due to adoption, divorce, or unworthy parents.

Sealing of a two parents can take place to a worthy, pregnant woman. They child is BIC when born.

Frankly, I find the mental gymnastics the Mormons go through to come up with these things is insanity at it's finest.

If the baby was born to parents that were TBMs then at the moment of birth, that baby would not need to be sealed to anyone. Thus the baby would be BIC. Later, if the situation changes, and there is an adoption, it would not change that the baby was indeed BIC at the time of the "B".

Right, assuming the TBMs were sealed.

The status of the birth parents is.

I served as witness for one in the LA Temple. The language used was "... as though you had been born under the covenent of..." followed by the adoptive partents names. A child capable of communicating must accept the sealing otherwise someone acts as proxy in the response.

Remember its all conditional anyway.

Considdering how much enphasis they put on how good the BIC people were before it's got to be quite abousve to put addopted children into a situaion like that.

My parents adopted six children, and each time it was off to the temple to be sealed. I am not adopted, but I also had to be sealed to them, because my father was not a member when I was born and it wasn't until I was about 7 that they were married in the temple.

BTW, I hate those little sealing rooms. It's a very small space, and great for judgmental looks.

Hey! I just realized that I'm not BIC after all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 10:37AM by Makurosu.

Mak, Hey buddy, you just realized you are not BIC? You are a crack up;)

I think a lot of people on this board are confused with the sealing gyrations.

I spent a lot of time researching the LDS rules on this when my exH and I were trying to get cancellation of sealing after I was ex'd. Back then, SWK in letter, and a fellow at the COB explained it to me. My exFIL was the SP. He gave me a lot of info on what is and is not BIC, and how they sort these things out.

The birthright thingie is the interesting part....to me. The innocents retain their right as BIC...Damn, does it get any crazier than Mormonism logic.

Sealing is a strange animal.

This is a situation in a family related to me. Wife was sealed to a guy who she divorced. No children with this guy. Wife remarried, but without temple cancelation from first husband, so she's still sealed to first husband, even though she is now married to second husband.

Wife has children with second husband. The minute the children are born they are BIC in the sealing to first husband.

So even if later, wife gets a sealing cancelation of the first marriage and gets sealed to second husband, the children are still sealed to wife and first husband, because they were BIC. The children cannot be sealed to their real, biological father.

And the first guy didn't even want kids.

Go figure.

No, you're a Mont Blanc.

Just sayin'...

Ron