So I attended church this last Sunday, begrudgingly, of course. (I am so sick of this cult it is unbelievable! Please help me cope till I graduate in April, its driving me nuts).

Anyways, in Sunday school we had a discussion about agency, one of the MORmONs favorite topics. This was the first time I had been in a discussion about agency since my eyes were truly opened to the ridiculousness of this church.

IT WAS HILARIOUS how every TBM in the room repeatedly justified to themselves that living the commandments was the REAL way to keep your free agency and that ANY sin (literally ANY SIN WHATSOEVER) would actually restrict your agency. One dude, a friend of mine actually, had the audacity to say that sins were restricting of your agency because they would keep you out of the temple.

Bull shit. Your bishops will keep me out of the temple for sins. Actually, I WILL KEEP MYSELF TEMPLE FREE because I will use my agency to avoid your strange rituals at all costs. My choice to drink coffee this morning sure as hell didn't cause "VOID" to slowly appear on my recommend.

How sad that you have to constantly convince yourself that giving up your agency to the cult is actually the lifeblood of your freedom.

Mormons do love their meaningless buzz words and agency is about at the top of that list.

Agency by itself really only refers to having options or giving options.

Free agency just means you are free to consider many options and choose one.

If you don't have free agency it is because you have made a contract with an entity and are bound by their rules and regulations, ie temple endowments-- where you promise everything to the Mormons and they promise you "maybe" to let you into the CK if you do exactly as they say from here on out.

Or if you are enslaved, then you have no free agency--see also, Mormonism.


One of life's greatest challenges is to listen to the mindless Mormon crap once you have seen through it. Takes nerves of steel.

"Agency by itself really only refers to having options or giving options.

Free agency just means you are free to consider many options and choose one."

This is the part that gets me. Since you have to accept or reject the message of the Mormon church, where are the options? The affirmative and the negative of an option are still only one option. It's not like choosing a career where you have some many options. How does one have agency (or even free agency) where there is only one choice? And you are not really free to make the choice, because if you don't you get zapped by Gawhd in the judgement day. How are you free if there is coercion, influence, or intimidation?

Yes. "Zapped by Gawhd."


"You have agency brothers and sisters, either pick our way or go to hell! So . . . what's it gonna be?"

Done & Done Wrote:
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> Yes. "Zapped by Gawhd."
>
>
> "You have agency brothers and sisters, either pick
> our way or go to hell! So . . . what's it gonna
> be?"

Haha yep that is exactly how it feels like. 'Either sit down and shut up or leave and go to outer darkness with the devil.' great options here.

mightybuffalo Wrote:
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> My choice to
> drink coffee this morning sure as hell didn't
> cause "VOID" to slowly appear on my recommend.

No, but you might get caught and ratted out. Drinking coffee isn't worth it at this point. I know that you want to rebel and lash out -- it's only normal when you find out that you've been lied to and used -- but you need to wait until you get your diploma in hand. There's still too much to lose.

Please be careful.

Lol didn't actually drink coffee this morning-- that was just an example. I'm all too aware that I'm walking on thin ice. Thanks though

Whew! We're all just worried about you.

East Coast Exmo Wrote:
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> Whew! We're all just worried about you.

I know i was. Coffee is worse than doing death oaths.

"Eloheim the Kolobian can't stand the site of coffee"
I read that in another forum and laughed and laughed.

So grateful to not have gone to church in a year and a half. My mind is functioning more normal. It's a rule of mine not to participate in any strange rituals including as basic as prayer. This rule sets me free in a way.

"How sad that you have to constantly convince yourself that giving up your agency to the cult is actually the lifeblood of your freedom."


Truth is, you have no agency or freedom in a cult, no matter how much they tell you that you do. You have to attend church at the location and time that you are told to, even if it means driving past 3 closer ward houses to get to the one you're required to attend. And at the time they tell you regardless of what meeting you'd like to go to. Doesn't sound like choices to me.

There is something about this topic that feels like a small paper cut that turns into a lighting rod in the brain. I think it has something to do with the way mormons bullshit themselves into believing that their own restricted lifestyle is somehow more "free" than everyone else's life. In reality the mormon lifestyle is a hollow one filled with missed opportunities and experiences. They do have a lot of shallow friends that will dump them if they leave. So, there's that.

Embedded in this subject is perhaps the very core of what we dislike about mormons - their haughty self-righteous indignation. They brainwash themselves into believing that their lifestyle is the MUCH better one and everyone else is truly beneath them. I suppose it is nice to go to church and reinforce that holier-than-thou belief on a regular basis.

Mormons should take mushrooms like their early mormon-pioneer-ancestors did.

I would rather have freedom in forming my own opinions than their freedom in making decisions any day of the week.

Freedom in thinking is more important than deciding to drink coffee or watch a rated R movie.

Mormon "agency" is in their pharisaical straining at gnats. Mormonism doesn't help people to be less murderous, mean, or nasty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2018 02:36PM by Elder Berry.

“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, 1984

When did "free agency" lose the "free" part? When I was in seminary and institute and so forth (60's) it was still called free agency. And what was the justification for dropping the word? I've been out so long that I can't remember when stuff like this occurred.

Probably when they took the "penalties" out of the temple "covenants." Mormons had "free" agency as long as they were risking being disemboweled or having their throats slit. Once they took the risks away their agency wasn't free anymore.

Free Range Mormons became effectively domesticated in Hinckley's hyper-conservative roundup of beliefs.

Now Mormons have their "agency" which coincides with "gaygency" which is the ability to be gay within the flock as long as you don't entertain freedom from it.

I think one of the bozos during GC made a big deal about agency not being free. I believe that you can buy your very own agency at the City Creek mall.

> How sad that you have to constantly convince yourself that giving up your agency to the cult is actually the lifeblood of your freedom.

"Arbeit macht frei"

Didn't the church once teach that we were all predestined to have free agency?

Our (sufficient) righteousness gave us the opportunity to come to earth and become mormons, a blessing enjoyed by probably 0.00040031% of all ghawd's spirit children, and even less if you add in the 1/3 who were kicked out, never to have bodies and pop pimples.

I'm special...

I think it still does old dog-- at least that's what I still hear about. That was a fine line I heard mormons try to attempt quite frequently: God gives you freedom to choose but knows exactly what you will choose. Uhhh what? Wheres the freedom in that?

elderolddog Wrote:
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> Didn't the church once teach that we were all
> predestined to have free agency?

Yep. And without ever noticing the self-contradiction in that statement. :)