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Posted by: brett ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 03:48PM

knowing they will never get an answer. Since the BOM is a work of fiction, no one has ever really had a response from God as to the truthfulness of it. Although no doubt some people have interpreted a random event as being a sign.

Seems like the better idea would be to say "just take our word for it, it's true". Most mormons only need that to accept the rest of the BS.

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Posted by: beulahland ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 03:52PM

Actually, one of the best ways to control another person is to convince them that something was there idea. I used to utilize this tactic when I was a retail manager trying to get burnt out stoners to do their damn jobs, and it worked better than threatening, cajoling, or otherwise trying to reason with them ever did.

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Posted by: Scooter ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 05:26PM


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Posted by: EssexExMo ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 04:01PM

People do get a feeling.... this is due to simple psychology

and they are told that this is an answer from god

feelings are more powerful than any amount of logic

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Posted by: kestrafinn (not logged in) ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 04:12PM

Because it's the perfect initial manipulation tool where they can claim to be in the right.

People respond "yes" believe TSCC's claims, so it's an automatic win for the TSCC.

People who don't feel anything will either say that they felt God out of insecurity for not being good enough (ah yes, the first time in a lifetime of being LDS), or if they admit they get no response, they will be chastened for not praying hard enough - until the appropriate "yes" is achieved.

People who say they feel a strong "no" are told that they are being led astray by Satan, so again.. TSCC claims moral victory, even if the person continues to be adamant that no, it's not true.

Manipulation at its finest.

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Posted by: Lucky ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 04:19PM

because it really is the only way a person could *know* the BOM is true, because all other ways point directly to it being BS.

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Posted by: brian-the-christ ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 04:39PM


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Posted by: robertb ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 05:24PM

I wrote his a number of years ago and haven't updated it, but it may be helpful:

I read a study about how people develop "false memories" for implausible events that I believe sheds some light on the process of conversion. I’ve provided the authors’ summary of the study below and have briefly outlined how I think the process might be applied in the context of “gaining a testimony” of the Book of Mormon, the First Vision and other Mormon claims. It fits pretty well with what I did and was taught to do as a missionary.

Summary of Study

"We have proposed a three-processes model for the development of false memories for implausible events through suggestive procedures. The first process is to make an event be perceived as plausible, the second is to help individuals acquire the autobiographical belief that it is likely to have happened to them. The third, not examined in this study, is to help people interpret their thoughts and fantasies about the event happening as memories. Our data shed light on two of the three processes.

We have shown that information about an event from a presumably credible source can alter perceived plausibility of the event. Our results also indicated that this information can produce changes in the perceived likelihood of the event having occurred to the individual. When suggestive personalized information was added, the effects on autobiographical likelihood were substantially greater and a sizable minority of participants came to believe that the event probably happened to them. In addition, we have shown that this happened although the event continued to be seen by participants as relatively implausible. This provides evidence for the fact that even a relatively small increase in plausibility of an initially implausible event can pave the way for additional suggestion, so that some people increase the perceived likelihood of occurrence of the event in their life."

"Changing Beliefs About Implausible Autobiographical Events A Little Plausibility Goes a Long Way"

http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/Articles/mazzloft.htm

Mormon missionary work, as I experienced it, often incorporated the processes described in the study. Once someone is identified who may be susceptible to accepting Mormonism, the missionary "teaching" process begins. The purpose of the teaching process is to create interest and belief and to reduce skepticism. Joseph Smith created the story of the plates, possibly some plates themselves, and the Book of Mormon in order to increase his credibility with his target audience. The lessons, testimonies and stories of the missionaries and church members, appeals to the Bible (in which many people still have at least residual belief) serve a similar purpose today.

Next, it is important to suggest that the investigator has experienced an event related to becoming a Mormon. Suggest the person recall an experience that is like the one you have presented and reinterpret it favorably to Mormonism. Many people experience events that are unexplainable or mysterious to them. Missionaries often interpret these experiences to suggest "the Spirit" was already working in their lives to bring them into Mormonism. In this way, a person is encouraged to reframe the memory of an event to support their belief in Mormonism. Mormons are routinely exposed to this practice of reframing in General Conference talks.

The experience can be personalized even further and its sense of reality increased by encouraging the person to enact the experience mentally or physically. When I was a missionary, we had the set discussions which at one point encouraged investigators to imagine they were Joseph Smith. Using first-person active imagination has been shown experimentally to increase belief that something has actually happened. More powerfully perhaps, as a missionary I asked investigators to kneel in prayer (as my companion and I knelt to make the request harder to refuse) and encouraged investigators to pray for a “testimony” at the same time we coached them in what to experience. Often people will experience what is suggested they should experience.

Once an investigator "receives a testimony" the experience is reinforced and maintained by the missionaries and church members. They reward the "successful" investigator with approval, acceptance, and the designation of being special and of belonging. The investigator attends church meetings where his experience is regularly validated. The investigator’s desire for social acceptance along and his need for internal consistency will increase his belief in the experience and serve to filter out conflicting information.

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Posted by: Don Bagley ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 07:07PM

This deceptive psychology has been developed over many decades. Read the material, then pray about. You will be told, as WE have been, by the spirit, that it is true.

Suppose the hapless "investigator" hears no spirit voice. Why? Perhaps the investigator is not good enough, or insensitive to the spirit. That's no good. Better to hear the prompting.

The victim is self-motivated now to go along with the nice people who are offering the prize. Amway works the same way. Beware of nice people who promise wealth and salvation.

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 08:51PM

You can only be convinced of a lie if you talk yourself into it.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 08:55PM

Concentrating on trying to get an answer keeps you from seeing that what they are teaching you is not in it.

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 09:37PM

"To others it is given to believe on their (those who are given knowledge by the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Son of God) words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful."

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