One of the places I am thinking of moving to in retirement is Cedar City, Me and hubby are Christian, nevermos, I am jewish by birth and look very jewish. How do mormons feel about jews? How would we do in Cedar City, as nevermos, and me looking jewish (stupid question I know but still gotta ask). We keep to ourselves, kind of loners, and don't care to much about a social network, but don't want to be ostracized, not get treated fairly by local services if needed. I like colder weather, 4 seasons, smaller towns, low crime, wholesome, outdoorsy places. I found some Christian churches there so we can find one to go to and at least find a few friends though we are loners overall.

Mormons are the only ones that have the audacity to call Jews "gentiles". Cedar is not only mormon, but multi generational mormon. Hell, I feel greasy after being there. Yes, it's beautiful geographically, but I wouldn't retire there. Look at St. George, or even better, Mesquite in NV. No state income tax, and not mormon.

I have Mormon cousins who have their winter home/s in Mesquite, the same as St George. What makes you think it isn't a Mormon enclave there? It isn't as populous as St George, but Nevada was originally settled by Mormon pioneers. They still have a big foothold there to this day, though not anywhere in the same numbers as Utah has.

Amyjo, the poster came here looking for information and facts.Not your feeling. Just because your cousins live there, doesn't make it a mormon enclave. It's 6.5% mormon. That's less than 7 people out of every 100 people. That means that 94 out of every 100 people aren't mormon. Mesquite has a population of 18,000. 6.5% means there are 1170 mormons in the entire town. I have more than that in my subdivision.

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amyjo, the poster came here looking for
> information and facts.Not your feeling. Just
> because your cousins live there, doesn't make it a
> mormon enclave. It's 6.5% mormon. That's less than
> 7 people out of every 100 people. That means that
> 94 out of every 100 people aren't mormon. Mesquite
> has a population of 18,000. 6.5% means there are
> 1170 mormons in the entire town. I have more than
> that in my subdivision.

Since your previous snarky retort was deleted, let's try this again. According to "Best Places to Live" by Sperling it is 6.57% LDS population in Mesquite out of the 36.81% that are religious in the community. That is second only to Catholicism, which is app 19% of the local population. Hence, Mormons are the second leading religiously observant community in Mesquite, NV.

I have more useful information for poster about living in Mesquite than you do. You haven't really added anything other than retorts to whatever I've shared. There is still a strong Mormon population in Nevada. 6.57% of the Mesquite population is influential in the local community and politics. Mormons are a driving force there like they are wherever they've established roots including as a pioneer community.

"Mesquite was settled by Mormon pioneers in 1880, who called it Mesquite Flat. The community was finally established on the third attempt after having been flooded out from the waters of the Virgin River. ... Mesquite, like nearby Bunkerville, had its origins in farming.}

That isn't based on my feelings. Its Mormon history and demographics to this day are rooted in fact. Why do you feel you have to argue with everyone you disagree with? It is your feelings over objective fact. Go back to square one.

I believe the stats are based on the local year-round residents living there, not the snowbirds. If you add Mormon snowbirds from northern Utah and Idaho, then those numbers increase proportionately during the winter months.

My cousins only go there during the winter, and are gone the rest of the year, like many other Mormons who head south to get out of the snow. They like it in Mesquite, and have adequate Mormon neighbors to keep them in good supply.

There are four wards in Mesquite, NV. In addition to its own stake. For a small town, that is a lot of Mormons in tiny Mesquite, NV. I called it an enclave, because that it is. You won't find Mormons in those numbers outside of Nevada's townships, except maybe in California.

When only 36.81% of the local population of Mesquite are religiously observant, the 6.57% is from that population, not the population at large. So there too, your numbers are skewered.

"36.81% of the people in Mesquite, Nevada are religious, meaning they affiliate with a religion. 19.11% are Catholic; 6.57% are LDS; 4.71% are another Christian faith; 0.32% in Mesquite, Nevada are Jewish; 0.86% are an eastern faith; 0.06% affilitates with Islam."
https://www.bestplaces.net/religion/city/nevada/mesquite

So yes, there is a Mormon enclave living in Mesquite. A small enclave, but an enclave nevertheless.

en·clave
ˈenˌklāv,ˈäNGˌklāv/Submit
noun
a portion of territory within or surrounded by a larger territory whose inhabitants are culturally or ethnically distinct.
a place or group that is different in character from those surrounding it.

Really? Do you understand math? If you're claiming that the 6.5% mormon is based on the 37% of religious people, that puts mormons at 433 people in Mesquite. (37% of 18,000= 6,600. 6.5% of 6,600 is 433. So, again, NO. Mesquite is not very mormon at all, despite your great insight to Mesquite. Also, the biggest influx of Utahn's are St. George residents driving there to buy liquor.

It is 6.57%. Get your math straight.

6.57% of 18,000 is app 1,183 active church members. That isn't counting the JACK Mormons, and the INACTIVE ones. They make up more than that. Or the snowbirds, who are not counted as residents because Mesquite is their SECOND home.

You say you live in Utah, yet you are not aware of the Mormons that populate there and have settled the region, including Mesquite, NV. They are still among the most prominent community members in Mesquite to this day.

Your math is not so hot either. The various religious percentages add up to 37%, so the 6.5% that is Mormon is 6.5% of the total population, not 6.5% of 37%



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2018 06:10PM by Brother Of Jerry.

Which is exactly what I stated in my original post. Then, Amyjo's math told me that I was wrong, it's 6.5% of religious people in Mesquite. Do yourself a favor and follow the thread. Bottom line, no matter if Amyjo feels like mesquite is run by mormons that settled there 150 years ago- it's not.

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which is exactly what I stated in my original
> post. Then, Amyjo's math told me that I was wrong,
> it's 6.5% of religious people in Mesquite. Do
> yourself a favor and follow the thread. Bottom
> line, no matter if Amyjo feels like mesquite is
> run by mormons that settled there 150 years ago-
> it's not.

I didn't say it's still run by Mormons. I said it has a strong Mormon influence there still, and has a devout Mormon community living there within its borders. Mormons are some of the towns most prominent members. They would be a driving force in the community. Add that the snowbirds who own second homes there are not counted as residents because they are not year-round residents. They are counted where their primary homes are, up north. That would add app 25% of the local population during wintertime. So there you'd have app 31% or more of the local winter population as religious Mormons because a goodly number of those are snowbirding.

What part of that did you miss?

Considering the gambling and casino industry that is the primary revenue, it wouldn't surprise me that the 19+% of Catholics make up a percentage of the Italian mafiosa.

Did you know there is Mormon mafia? I bet you didn't know that.

They helped to establish Las Vegas and other gambling points in Nevada.

My stepdad was involved with that during his life. It's the seedy underbelly of Las Vegas and its counterparts.

Your step-dad was involved with the mormon mafia?

Huh! That means he personally attended to Howard Hughes! The stories he must have told you!

Nope. Didn't Howard Hughes hire Mormon male returned missionaries to wait on him, because he didn't trust female nurses?

Was Hughes gay or afraid of falling for one of his female nurses?

My stepdad had business dealings in Vegas that involved the mafia, but he was Utah based.

I suspected he was Mormon mafia when he was dating my mom. It wasn't confirmed until a couple years before he died when he basically confessed to me during a long winded telephone conversation after mom had died.

He told me a lot during those phone calls. It seemed he was trying to purge his conscience before he died. Not sure if it worked or not.

Okay, you're using the term "mormon mafia" as a generalized term to indicate criminal activity on the part of mormons, and I suppose you believe that there was some degree of 'organization,' with perhaps a capo here, a capo there... Personally I doubt there was anything close to 'mafia' activity on the part of a few mormon crooks, one of which, per his claim, married your mother.

'Mormon mafia' has been co-opted to refer to the five men who personally attended to Howard Hughes during his Las Vegas years. The 'mormon mafia' was put together and run by Frank "Bill" Gay:

"A member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Gay put together the so-called "Mormon Mafia" that comprised Hughes's inner circle in his later life."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_William_Gay


"...Hughes refused to leave the Desert Inn, (so) he had a team of executive assistants and advisors to oversee his business dealings. They were led by a man named Frank "Bill" Gay, a Mormon Hughes hired right out of UCLA. Like Gay, everyone on the team was Mormon. Together, they became known as the "Mormon Mafia."

https://www.ranker.com/list/how-mormons-built-las-vegas/philgibbons

That small time mormon crooks existed, but I sincerely doubt that it came close to the organization or activity attributed to "the mafia."

Yeah Amy, I'm quite aware of the mormon mafia. I have a customer that's a major player. It's not anything near what you described. Mormons helped the casino expansion in Vegas because Hughes and others thought mormons could be trusted not to steal. The real mafia used them for accounting, not including them in anything else. The mormon mafia in Utah runs real estate operations, banking operations, judicial and political positions. You have no idea what your talking about when it comes to mormon mafia in Nevada.

I didn't describe any of the Mormon mafia activities other than say they have ties to Vegas.

Don't know where you got any descriptive reading what I wrote. My stepdad was involved with it, that's all I said. He had mafia business dealings that took him to Vegas on occasion, but other than that he didn't detail to me what his illegal activities were.

And I didn't ask.

I don't know much about Cedar City other than it's 35-40 minutes from St. George. St George has a small Jewish population of around 30 families who gather once a month for worship services, and more during the High Holy days and other special days of the year.

There's enough diversity in and around southern Utah you should be fine. Mormons make good neighbors, and so do good fences make for good neighbors, if you get my drift.

You'll be fine. My grandmother was a never Mo who lived in the Utah Morridor for all her adult life (and early childhood.) She did fine living around Mormons. She had many close friends and good neighbors who checked on each other. She maintained a fairly active social life. Had many interests and hobbies she pursued in retirement. She was never bored.

Cedar City has more of a four seasons climate than St. George, but not as cold as up north is. There's some pretty country around there if you like to travel a bit and explore the scenic wonders of the national and state parks nearby. Lots to see and do in that little corner of America. Just don't drink and drive. The state and local police are on top of DUI's and mere driving infractions. Obey all the local traffic laws & ordinances, you should be just fine. There's some really bad local drivers in that general area too of southern Utah (maybe all of Utah, I wouldn't know.) In St George I read the crime blog. On any given day there are scores of people arrested for DUI, arrested for narcotics, open containers in vehicles etc. So beware: You may be the best driver in the world. But the guy coming down the road may be the worst. Be a defensive driver at all times!

There are Christian denominations in the area other than the Mormon ones. Mormons have them outnumbered and they feel like a minority there. That doesn't stop them from having their meetings and trying to remain a vital part of the communities they live in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2018 12:55PM by Amyjo.

I used to.live.near Cedar City. There are other churches there and a college, so it isnt all Mormon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2018 04:06PM by bona dea.

I live in Las Vegas, hate it here, been here over 30 years. I hate the heat in summer so St. George is out, I want 4 seasons and not extreme summer heat, I know Cedar gets 90s in summer but to me that is nothing. I have my family here and in Mesa Arizona. So don't want to stay to far from them. I also thought of Prescott and Williams Arizona, Williams is tiny (to small for me about 3000 people), Prescott is expensive. Hubby doesn't want to move so I don't want to scare him and take him far from his comfort zone, (he worked with and had close Mormon friends in his younger days). We are both very conservative, I don't drink, he does lightly.

I've considered Prescott since it and St George are considered the top two retirement destinations to live in the US. Until I saw the housing prices there. They're through the roof, literally.

Cedar has the four seasons you'd want. Housing prices have not gone berserk there. It is a mix in terms of climate. Size wise, not to large if you don't mind a small town atmosphere.

St George still has a small town feel, but that's changing because of the booming housing construction ongoing there.

I may have trouble adjusting to the heat of summer in St George. After spending the last three decades in New York it's a trade I'm willing to live with. If things become unmanageable for me during the summertime, I may end up snowbirding. :-)

Flagstaff.

I second that recommendation. Flagstaff has 4 seasons. It's also a college town. And it's simply beautiful.

Have you thought about the Verde Valley between Phoenix and Flag.? Not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter. I don't know how expensive housing has become in Camp Verde or Cottonwood, but it might be worth some investigating. Sedona, on the other hand, might make Prescott and Flagstaff look affordable.

I really liked this article. You might get some ideas from it. North Carolina is a retirement haven on the east coast. It has four season weather although the winters are very mild. You might also look at Maryland's eastern shore (what is known as the Delmarva peninsula.) For instance, St. Michael's is a completely charming town right on the water. Maryland has true four season weather. I love it!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/retirement/the-best-small-towns-to-retire-to/ss-BBIqKcZ?ocid=spartanntp

Is your cup half empty or half full?
Many things depend on how you see things or how you let things effect you.
Lived in Cedar for close to 40 yrs.
Not a bad place, although I do hear people complaining about it on this board regularly. It is what you make of it.
I've had bosses and co-workers that aren't Mormon and they do fine. I've asked them how they've been treated and get mixed reviews. Again, I think the attitude that you have determines how you'll do.
I haven't fact checked so someone can argue what first came up on my Google search for those that like to argue, but it says Cedar is 71% LDS. That seems about right from the feeling I get living here. It's not LDS stifling and I know and have many non-LDS friends. Maybe the new temple has brought in a few more LDS, but many people moving in are not.
Hope you find a nice comfortable place to enjoy your coming years.

I thought about Flagstaff but it is crazy expensive. I can't go east coast, to far from family and out of husband's comfort zone. I don't have a problem with Mormon's and neither does my husband. I don't expect a welcome wagon, just common decency and not be turned away or put on end of list for services. Which I really don't expect.

I noticed Utah's small towns look much nicer (well kept, not as run down looking) as Arizona's small towns. Probably because of the "keeping up with appearance's" the Mormon's have.

Utah small towns can be pretty ugly too. AZ won't let you plant grass and waste water like Utah does. You can buy a decent place in Flagstaff for 250-300K. Keep in mind that you live in one of the cheapest places in the US. You don't have a state income tax. Utah is one of a dozen states that tax your social security. Plan on taking a 10-12% hit on your income/SS by moving to Utah.

That may be because Utah pays more for its services in terms of taxes. Nevada has no state tax. Arizona has a reduced tax compared to Utah's 5% flat tax.

If you're buying your home, you can write your taxes off with the interest and property taxes up to the newly revised limit implemented by the Trump admin.

There's affordable options in Utah where you won't get saddled with more than you can take on IMO, depending on how much house you can afford, and how much you want to spend.

Personally I don't care for Cedar City, but then I haven't lived in Las Vegas like you have with its long hot summers to make you long for a cooler climate.

People tell me in St George they get up early to do their shopping and outdoor exercising during the hottest part of the year. Then stay indoors during the peak heat of the day. :/

Washington and Hurricane are close to St George, maybe a couple of degrees cooler. If you get closer to Zion National Park, that is prime real estate. The housing prices go way up for what people can buy. Unless you're like really wealthy, Cedar City or the St George area with its suburbs are still the more affordable options. It's just that in the mountains like Zion, it would be somewhat cooler in the summertime, by a few degrees. It also is more isolated, and not near shopping ie, major stores, outlets, doctors, services.

You look jewish ? Did Sammy Davis Jr. look jewish ? Do I look mormon ?

Sammy Davis Jr. looked black and was discriminated against, some Jews that look Jewish or wear a Jewish star are discriminated against. Yes some people do get discriminated against, based on what they look like. You sound hostile Dave.

I don't want to necessarily hang with Jewish people, I just don't want people to look at me and the "jewish" bells start ringing in their head. I wasn't sure what Mormon's think about Jews, if anything.

Religion doesn't have a "look".

Sammy Davis was a convert to Judaism.

And he was sweet on candy.

He could've been the Pied Piper of Hamlet with his Candy Man.

And he was a jew

He wasn't born Jewish. He converted.

There are black native Jewish people though.

Nobody is born jewish

That isn't true. In Halacha law, if the mother is Jewish, so are her children. That's how Israel determines who can make immigration if they weren't raised Jewish.

You can be born Jewish, if your mother was a Jew.

My daughter moved to Israel because she was able to by virtue that we come through a direct descent of Jewish mothers going back centuries.

We are fully Jewish, because we were born to a Jewish mother, who was born to a Jewish mother, etc. My rabbi wrote the letter for both of us based on our genealogy.

I have no desire to immigrate to Israel now even though I could because I was born Jewish. I've decided it isn't for me. But I could if I really wanted to based on my Jewish lineage.

In Reform Judaism it recognizes a child is fully Jewish if the father is a Jew, or the mother. Only reform recognizes that to my knowledge. The other sects don't, nor does the Knesset for those wishing to make immigration to Israel.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2018 10:04PM by Amyjo.

Nobody is born with religion. Religion is a learned misbehavior.
All newborns are Atheists.

You're wrong about that.

You weren't born an atheist.

You were born a teenage mutant ninja turtle's little brother.

To be Jewish isn't a bloodline, it can be a birthright.

You can't be born a Christian.

You can be born a Jew.

Yes, you were not born having a religion. You were born an Atheist.

Only an ignoramus would talk junk regarding someone's religious upbringing or heritage.

No one is born an atheist. That is your learned behavior, and you're in a minority at that. You chose to be one.

Speak for yourself. You don't speak for me or anyone else.

If you want to be respected for your beliefs show some courtesy to others for theirs.

A baby must be taught what religion he is. He is not born having any concept of a god.

Otherwise he would not have a religion and would remain atheist by default.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
He is not born having any concept of a god.
>
You do not know that.

A baby is surely not born an atheist. That is absurd.

Even if they have no concept of god, they would have no concept of no god likewise.

They're completely dependent on their parents for all of their needs. What they come to believe is learned behavior, same as yours and mine.

>
> Even if they have no concept of god, they
> would have no concept of no god likewise.
>

... and thus they would not believe in a ghawd or ghawds, which is one definition of atheism: "disbelief or LACK OF BELIEF in the existence of God or gods."

It's in the dictionary!
https://www.google.com/search?q=atheism&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS760US760&oq=atheism&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i61l2j0l3.2005j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Having no concept either way would result in lack of belief in a god which by default and definition means atheism.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having no concept either way would result in lack
> of belief in a god which by default and definition
> means atheism.

That's a strange concept since the vast majority of society and cultures do believe in god - atheism is a minority demographics.

Both are taught concepts. Babies aren't born knowing anything. Everything we learn is through imitation.

In a recent Pew study only 3% of Americans claim to be atheist. Up to 9% claim no belief in a god but not claim to be atheist. It is still clearly in a minority in terms of what people believe. It is our beliefs that are passed down from one generation to the next. Beliefs are acquired, not inborn.

To believe or not to believe in deity is a conscious choice. To be in sync and harmony with God or higher power in a spiritual connection doesn't have to be learned or conscious. It just is.

I look very Jewish.
Ended up at a gun show in Provo with someone who was interested in vintage weapons.

I was watched with such suspicion and derision that I went and sat in the car. I’m not one to be paranoid, but it was pretty bad.

Maybe they thought I was an ATF agent.

Hell, if you don't look like a poster child for the Aryan Nation at a Provo gun show you're going to be scrutinized.

There are racists in Utah like elsewhere.

But there is also Jewish communities notably in Park City, Salt Lake City, Ogden, and Saint George that I know of.

Provo it's doubtful there's very many, if at all. Only app 5,000 Jews live in the Salt Lake area. They're small in number, but an active community there.

Moab is better. I have several Jewish friends who live there, and love it!

My Jewish friends and acquaintances in St George love it there. They don't feel discriminated. They do feel like they fit in. They're also choosy about the neighborhoods where they established some roots. They steered away from the more Mormon neighborhoods, for the more diverse suburbs.

My never-Mo grandmother was Jewish, orphaned as a young girl. She was raised by Protestant aunts, but looked Jewish for life. She wasn't discriminated based on her looks. She did her thing, and people respected her for who she was. She was a smart, classy, self-educated woman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2018 06:12PM by Amyjo.

FWIW, I had a neverMo colleague from the midwest who retired to Cedar City, having never lived in Utah or around Mormons before. He's been there 15 years now, and quite likes it. Cooler than St George, smallish university town, in the mountains.

I have a cousin presently retired in southern California, who lived part of his childhood in Cedar City. He liked it there okay and still has some relatives that he still visits. I don't feel a connection to there as much, but it is on the map of places I hope to visit someday.

Can somone one tell me what a jew looks like? I grew up in L.A.

and was lucky to live in such a diverse popilation. I knew lots o

people, including jews and never ever heard anyone say they

looked "Jewish". Thats is such a racist thing to say. The Jews

I knew looked like every one else... so again I ask, what does

a Jew look like that makes them so recognizable as Jewish?

I'm dying to know.

My boss and his wife are Jewish. One day I mentioned some Jewish heritage in my family. She said,"Welcome to the family. I always thought you had a Jewish looking nose."

So apparently some people think there's "a look."

I stood out as a child growing up in the Norwegian/Danish/Swedish/German Morridor in SE Idaho as a child. Because I was a dark haired brunette, with brown eyes. I was the darkest complected child in my school until the Indians came into the school with the Indian Placement Program during the 1960's.

Kids used to tease me I was Jewish before I knew I was because of my long black hair and skinny frame.

Most of my classmates were blonde, strawberry blonde, red heads, and light brunettes with lots of blue eyes.

Out of my siblings I was the only brunette. I used to think I was adopted because my siblings were red heads and blondes. Except my parents were brunettes like me. :)

My mom was Jewish all her life and didn't know it. She had long black hair down to her waist when I was a child. We did stand out at church, but it didn't slow my mom down. She was very driven.

The FLDS have a distinct look about them if you ever get to see them shopping in town. Their communities are near Cedar City. Their dress is distinctive, and their physical appearance is similar to each other. I've wondered if it's from interbreeding generationally that results in that. There has been some documentation of genetic mutations among some of the FLDS children that pass down to descendants.

The Book of Mormon teaches that Lehi was from one of the tribes of Israel just like Jews are from another tribe of Israel.

I always thought that Mormons had a special regard for Jews because of shared lineage with modern Native Americans (Lamanites).

As a Las Vegas resident I understand the dislike of summers. I retired here with my wife and live in a 55+ community and absolutely love it.

I think Cedar City would work for DOGLOVER. It has four seasons, culture, and college. And it is only a few hours to Las Vegas or Arizona distinations.

But there is no shared lineage between Native American Indians and the Jews. That is known DNA science. They share nothing in common. No ancestry between them.

Joseph Smith had a love affair with the Jews when he incorporated (loosely) his religious cult. He borrowed from Jewish beliefs and Maimonedes into some of his Mormon teachings, like he borrowed from the Masons, the King James Bible, and other writings. He studied Hebrew and rabbinical teachings. The Thirteen Articles of Faith were a spin-off of Maimonedes 13 Principles of Faith, etc.

The story of the Jews crossing the ocean to America and becoming Lamanites and Nephites was plagiarized from other writings of his day, namely fictional works not historical.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2018 10:44PM by Amyjo.

Babies are born atheist.

I asked you what does a Jew look like and you answer with a personal story that your mother a jew had black hair.

I have black hair and i'm not jewish.

If black hair is a description of what a Jewish person looks like

then Mexicans and Indians and chinese and japanese and all the

rest of the people with black hair would be Jewish also so that

definition of what does a Jewish person makes no sense does it?

My friends who were Jewish were blonds or had brown hair. So what is the real description of what a Jesish person looks like? You see, when you make a blanket statement such as All jews have black hair its racist. None of the Jews I know look all alike.

So what is the real answer to my question . You haven't answered yet.

My mother and my grandmother looked Jewish. They were Jewish.

Whatever you like to conjecture about what Jews look like or not is your opinion.

Jews are diverse, multi-racial, and multi-ethnic. They share some common attributes not necessarily physical. But some do.

A roomful of Mormons by appearance looks quite different from a roomful of Jews in a gathering. From physical attributes to dress, to intelligence quota, they are quite different in a worship setting from Mormons.

No they do not all look alike. That isn't the point. That they look or resemble someone who is Jewish was the point of the OP and some of the comments of readers like other Jewish people on this board.

The OP says she looks Jewish, and I believe her.