I wasn’t excited to see political posts allowed here. Most of the political rants have nothing to do with Mormonism. I try to just scroll on by, but the political comments pepper lots of the threads. Just me?

I maintain a "small inner circle" of RFM friends, and over the years back then I had to really "talk hard" to keep some of them to remain here because the issue of "politics" is a subjective one.

I don't think I had any real issue with avoiding politics even though I was a lot more "active" then than now (the current asylum escapee in the Oval Office has kept me from following the issues the way I used to, and I'm a former political science major with what I see are moderate, slightly left of center views. Of course on Planet Utah, that makes me a flaming liberal).

You too huh? I was a political sci major myself, but from Idaho not in Utah.

When I went back after my "counter-culture" days... I needed it to "save my sanity" (see Twain, Mark) even though my aptitude and interest is in the sciences and history. "Renaissance Men" (or people) don't fare too well these days, but I finally understood politics when I was doing grad work in addictions and psychology; the literature on dysfunctional families "dovetailed" in the 80's and 90's, and I realized what was driving me was a need to make sense of the "insanity" (translation: the 60's and early 70's).

There was also the small matter of growing up in Zion right on the fringes of the LDS Church.

Politically, I was a right wingnut for too long (although still to the left of Orrin Hatch), but when I revisited all that "narcissistic crap" I moved over to the left.

mormonism IS politics

I'm probably on the more liberal end, at least by Utah standards, and I get deleted moderately often. Sometimes it is because I am replying to a post that I'm pretty sure is not going to be long for this world because it is racist or homophobic or some similar POV that is not well tolerated here. In those cases, I am more surprised by the posts that survive than the ones I fully expect to get deleted.

And sometimes I get deleted for what I wrote. I don't think I have ever complained about being deleted. Being a mod is a tough job. Frequently they make judgement calls that could have gone the other way, and sometimes they even change their minds, and allow something that was recently deleted in another thread, or delete a thread that they had initially decided to let stand, but later decide this isn't going well, and delete the thread.

What amazes me is all the snowflakes that are all butt-hurt at being deleted. Often it is not even about them. They were just down-thread from something else that was deleted, or sometimes it is just a topic that has been beat to death and the mods decide it is time to move on. And as I mentioned, racism and homophobia and similar topics tend to get cut. This is a surprise?

I don't always agree with the mods decisions, but as far as I can see, they are acting in good faith, and I'm happy to let them do a job that frankly would terrify and exhaust me.

My experience has been much like yours. I'm glad I don't have to moderate (perhaps in more than one sense!).

Since many Mormons still consider Mitt Romney the fulfillment of prophecy, he may be one politician that recovering Mormons will feel a need to discuss.

I don't know how one disentangles politics from any complex human phenomenon. Politics exist in relationships, families, community groups, religions, and policy debates. Mormonism is all of those things.

What has happened is that the politics that are particularly Mormon--issues of gender identity, patriarchy and misogyny, racism, nepotism, the equitable enforcement of rules, the manipulation of truth, etc--have recently fused in national politics to an unprecedented degree. This makes it much more difficult to separate the topic of religion, particularly Mormonism, from politics.

How does one discuss Rob Porter and his Mormonism without asking what enabled him to survive so long in Washington? How does one discuss the nepotistic and corrupt relationships at the top of the church without touching upon the same problems at the top of the state? How do Orrin Hatch and Mitt Romney fit into those two systems? What does one do when, leaving a church with an Orwellian sense of information control, s/he encounters national politics that likewise manipulate facts with unabashed cynicism?

The Truth is that many Mormon issues, perhaps most Mormon issues, are also national issues. They differ in degree but are closely related. It follows that limiting political conversation too strictly would collaterally constrain debate over, and recovery from, the social and political construct that is Mormonism.

The site is called "Recovery from Mormonism," not "Imposing one's opinions on political issues on those who are recovering from a cult."

It also says on the home page...

Very Active and Compassionate Activity on the Recovery Board - 2018

I don't quarrel with the "Very Active" .... Wish that the word "Compassionate" would be deleted....

Lots of off topic stuff is allowed and politics and religion are a lot more connected than threads on your favorite movie or song. No one is making anyone open political threads. Dont read them if it bothers you. It is up to the mods and I am ok with it if they are.

This site is big on "the truth". The truth is this site is not compassionate.

Just asking for truth in advertising/marketing.....

Yes, Cheryl. We know that you believe you can recover from Mormonism without discussing sexism, gender identity, racism, nepotism, special rules for the elite, and shifting standards of truth. Good for you.

Others of us, however, are not so fortunate. We believe those are elements of our Mormon heritage and think it helpful to discuss those things.

I'm not convinced that "dicusss" is what is going on....

Your mind reading has failed you.

Also, do you have more than one head? You speak of yourself as "we."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2018 03:34PM by Cheryl.

Alright, so you do consider discussion of patriarchy, gender identity, racism, etc., important to your recovery from Mormonism.

But when posters address those topics in ways you do not like, you consider that "imposing one's opinions on political issues on" others.

Hmm. That sounds as if you are only comfortable with views that conform to your own. Same opinion: legitimate recovery. Different opinion: politics and therefore inappropriate for this board.

a very Compassionate site....

I have discussed those topics and many others on RfM for about 20 years.

That is precisely my point.

You have discussed these political topics on RfM for a very long time. Yet you find others' views on those topics unacceptable and would like them suppressed.

peer pressure being applied....

Nope. I welcome Cheryl's views, your views, anyone's views.

What I don't welcome is blanket statements that my or anyone else's views should be suppressed.

Opinions may be expressed, and I applaud diverse points of view. It's healthy to have many and varied points of view. It isn't healthy to claim that others haven't a right to make up their own mind on a topic. Neither must they justify it unless they choose to do so.

What bothers me is mind reading. When someone brings out another side to a topic, no one can assume "'we' know where you stand."

The person who posts knows where they stand. Others can't assume they know a vast amount of additional information about that person when it wasn't stated in any way from their own words.

You don't know where I stand unless I tell you. And the unnamed others you say who know where I stand know nothing of the kind.

I am bothered when the point of a post is to slur and denigrate a poster and put pressure on them to knuckle under.

Newsflash: There is never only one correct way to see an issue. Others have a right to draw their own conclusions.

They have a right to control and make decisions about their own personal life and environment which no one else has a right to invade.

As I wrote above, "I welcome Cheryl's views, your views, anyone's views."

not a chance that will happen - i've been on the site 21 years and it's "evolved/deteriorated" into this irreversible state.

wow..dramatic much?

Dorothy, do you live in Utah? If not, you can't understand that a church can run and control an entire state. From the governor on down. To the 90+% lds legislature. Nationally religious "evangelicals" have infested politics. There is no separation of church and state any longer. Did you know the lds church employs an entire staff of lobbyists to influence politicians, in Utah and nationally? In Utah, LDS politicians do what the church wants over what their constituents want. They took an oath to the church above their oath to the constitution.

To me, the only times Mormonism is politics is when Mitt Romney is running for office, or when discussing Utah's government, which is basically a theocracy.

Hence my post today of an article discussing exactly that (Romney and his Mormon-Political ambitions).

I'm just here to have fun!

Remember fun?

How can you have fun when there are children starving in Africa ?

Note to self....

cannot have fun anymore...

Well, this thread started off by asking is there any hope for getting politics off RfM.

Then it devolved into a discussion of whether politics is Mormonism. Mormonism is politics, and how can you really separate them, especially if you happen to live in Utah?

I agree. Mormonism is heavily invested in politics of its own making - it is what it is. It may be the ONLY state in the UNION where separation of CHURCH and STATE is a MISNOMER.

Mormonism was born in an American context. It's issues were, and remain, American. The US is embracing, or considering embracing, ideas and practices that characterized various strands of LDS thought and behavior over the decades and centuries.

Perhaps that is why the moderators decided to allow more political discussion. You can't really address Mormonism in a vacuum given the social context.

or mind readers.

Which is exactly what I said.

Unless that happens, we don't know and can only guess which isn't a good idea since that's how false suppositions and gossip are spread.

That's silly. People can guess about anything they want, just as they may express any opinions they want or infer patterns of belief in the posts of another, patterns which generally are not as opaque as the poster may believe.

No one gets to tell others what they may think or write except the moderators.

I hope not because I find it interesting, but it isn't that big of a deal either way to me.

Mormonism and religion are linked with politics in many ways.

I think it is interesting to see what political issues seem to resonate with religions and which don't.

When it is related to religion and Mormonism, I'm glad when admin lets it stay, although I understand when things get deleted.

I see all kinds of things here that I do not think are as relevant to Mormonism as politics. I can skip over them or share a view at the risk of getting deleted or not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2018 04:38PM by dagny.

I think issues related to social justice are an important part of my leaving mormonism and it's religious ideas of what is right, what is wrong, who is superior and who is inferior. Those social justice notions spill over into governance and therefore politics. It's very difficult to not discuss such issues in connection to leaving mormonism.

I like politics. Those who dont can not click on political threads.As long as a thread is following board rules, we dont have the right to expect it to be pulled just because we disagree or are not interested. Of course you can take it up with the mods, but they may not agree with you.Just because you disagree with a political opinion does not mean that it is being imposed on you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2018 05:33PM by bona dea.

If people read the sticky that Eric posted last Feb, Politics IS allowed if it is related to religion.

So to answer your question, if it's related to religion, the answer is no.

In my arrogant and immodest opinion religion and politics are inexorably entwined due to the fact that human beings are involved. You cannot separate them and have a viable discussion. For years I have wondered when this forum would acknowledge this and realize that recovery necessitates the recognition and evaluation of both. Again IN MY "UNHUMBLE" OPINION

I find it very easy to avoid the politics here. I am not American, not Utahn, and frankly not qualified to be commenting on things that do not affect me. I belong to a socialist welfare state called Canada!

The onus is on me to decide what I read or participate in here on RfM. I don't get upset with the opinions of others despite many comments displaying a completely different vantage point than my own.

Most of us here are adults, and part of being an adult is recognizing that our opinions are just our opinions. The great thing about this principle is that we can finally have our individual opinions and express them outside the Mormon church! Could you ever be yourself in the church without fear of judgment? I think not. RfM should be a place that we can express ourselves without fear of judgment, even if there is a political spin.

I love the diversity of this site, hence my continued involvement nowadays! Tolerance is a virtue. Statistically, people usually have to reach 60 years of age before they find some measure of "agreeableness" with other people. I think it is a blessing to find this behavior within ourselves much earlier than that.

Cheers.

Political discussions tend to turn nasty real quick even with friends .Sometimes people want to talk about a big news story like the school shooting that really has little or nothing to do with religion . maybe another board on RFM to discuss political or current events issues ? Or not

In my view the MormonCult does not hesitate in the least to become involved in telling its members who and what to vote for along with telling them what they can read and think. As long as this is their practice, then I myself feel the strong duty to give voice to what they are doing.

Being part of that totalitarianism system of the MormonCult for the time that I was, and the craziness it caused me, plus the fact that now I have people who I love very, very much still locked and indoctrinated in it, anything that helps me fight the MormonCult and its interference in politics (which it most certainly does not stay out of) and freedom and democracy, is needed and appreciated.

And so, I say thanks to RFM for providing a voice for myself as well as being able to hear other differing voices knowing that I am FREE here to censure myself on this site....to choose not to read if that is what I want.

Well said.

My original post was unclear. Of course there are some political threads and comments that are entirely on topic and needed.

I do try to skip obvious political threads. Sometimes a thread gets hijacked by a fierce right/left battle over a topic that has very little to do with Mormonism or the thread it's under.

I am grateful to the moderators.

I come to RFM to read and share stories. I come for advice and support and I enjoy giving advice and support.

Political bickering over walls and presidents and guns feels not only off topic, but off mission--to me.

Thanks for your thoughts. I learned some things.

Politics here is a slippery slope. When I was a child, one of the worst things you could call someone was a communist. We practiced climbing under our desks in school in preparation for Nuclear attacks from the Soviet Union, believing at the time that this would make us safe from a ruthless enemy that wanted to take away our freedoms. Now, many of the next generation here in the US believes that everyone should be paid a "living wage" just for being alive. To me, that is communist. So although you may feel like your posts are being hijacked, it's likely that many of those topics that are not political to you, are political to others. Try studying the works of Saul Alinsky, and what history records of both Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton's personal meetings with and study of the works of Saul Alinsky. The older you get, the more you can recall historical events, and can connect them with modern events. Then someone plugs in a puzzle piece for you and you see things that they don't see, and it gets political for you. For them, they don't see the problem.