"Utah, a Rocky Mountain state known for its world-class ski slopes and large Mormon population, is located in one of the most scenic regions of the U.S. Utah residents enjoy some of the best health care quality in the U.S., with the lowest smoking rate and second-best health care quality. .... Low Mortality Rate #17 ...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/utah

It's not all bad. I look to the glass as half-full rather than half-empty regarding the redemptive qualities of the Beehive State.

Given its pros and cons, it is still a nice place to visit. :-)

Amyjo Wrote:
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> Given its pros and cons, it is still a nice place
> to visit. :-)


...as long as you can avoid the ubiquitous mormons.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
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> Amyjo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Given its pros and cons, it is still a nice
> place
> > to visit. :-)
>
>
> ...as long as you can avoid the ubiquitous
> mormons.

There's a fair number of those "ubiquitous" mormons who are my relatives. I don't hold that against them ie, their religion. It is all they have ever known.

I can co-exist with them. My never Mo grandmother did just fine living in Utah. Although her never Mo children didn't fare as well, including my convert mother. Something about their being different growing up in Weber and Box Elder counties by virtue of being Methodist instead of Mormon. They never felt like they fit in with their peers, because they didn't. My uncle, who's now a retired scientist and con artist, used to get laughed out of primary the couple of times he visited as a child for being different. He was a genius for all his life. For Mormons they didn't know what to do with a boy genius who was Methodist at the same time.

He's the uncle who went to the dark side after re-inventing himself into a con artist. Today he's a sales consultant for Apple Computers. He's still conning his way through life ... He is the only relative on mom's side to be an atheist that I know of. The rest of mom's family are long gone.

He has no conscience for his misdeeds. He is the ultimate miscreant.

I was born in Utah and I would agree that it does have quality. There's a variety of beauty with the Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons, the Uintah Mountain area, Zions' National Park, Arches, Moab, Provo Canyon. We like to fly fish on the Provo River, and fish in the different lakes in the Uintah's. Active Mormons aren't the majority in Utah, but the Utah legislature is a majority of LDS, which makes Utah more of a theocracy IMO, but I still like living here. If it were possible, I would move to southern California in a heartbeat because the cold weather here does get old.

Have you considered southern Utah to retire?

I've been considering southern California like around Palm Springs. But the housing costs are higher, and so are the taxes.

Overall, for affordability, southern Utah still looks more doable.

It is an outdoorsmen's paradise. I'm not into mountain climbing, but wouldn't mind hiking some of the trails around there. The scenic views are amazing.

Amyjo Wrote:
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> I've been considering southern California like
> around Palm Springs. But the housing costs are
> higher, and so are the taxes.

Housing costs, sure.
Taxes...a bit, but not very much.

Wallet Hub calculates the "total tax burden" by state as follows:

CA: 9.52% of your total income
UT: 8.51% of your total income

So it'll cost you 1% of your total income to get the better CA weather (as far as taxes). You also get to get out of the Utah theocracy. For me, it's more than worth it :)

( https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/ )

Oh, and ZeeZee -- come on down. Everybody's the odd one out here, you'll fit right in :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2018 12:54PM by ificouldhietokolob.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amyjo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've been considering southern California like
> > around Palm Springs. But the housing costs are
> > higher, and so are the taxes.
>
> Housing costs, sure.
> Taxes...a bit, but not very much.

Both are more expensive than where I currently reside. California has its pluses, but I still don't care for the congestion of LA or its surrounding suburbs. Although when one of my kids lived and worked there it didn't seem so bad except for the snarly traffic. Housing costs alone would eat up whatever gains I might find there in retirement. So, not a win-win for me unless my children were to move back there.

>
> Wallet Hub calculates the "total tax burden" by
> state as follows:
>
> CA: 9.52% of your total income
> UT: 8.51% of your total income
>
> So it'll cost you 1% of your total income to get
> the better CA weather (as far as taxes). You also
> get to get out of the Utah theocracy. For me,
> it's more than worth it :)
>

Utah has a 5% flat tax rate for all income groups. Food and retail sales tax is 4.7% in Utah. California's base sales tax is 7.25%. That's higher than any other state. Its top marginal income tax rate of 13.3% is the highest state income tax rate in the country.

No thanks. That's too expensive for my taste or comfort level.

I've lived in northern California before. Sacramento and Silicon Valley. As pretty as those areas are, still no desire to return. Cost of living in Silicon Valley is through the roof. Only well-to-do IT professionals can afford to live there.

There wasn't a middle class when I lived there, and that was over 40 years ago when Hewlitt-Packard was the computer giant in town. Apple, Facebook, Google, etc plus all the startups have taken over the market share there since.

Utah is a nice-looking state, but I think I still want to get out of here. California is my dream home. Utah is so hard to survive from about October-April. The weather really takes its toll on me.

I also have some self image problems here. I’m always the odd one out.

Are you up northern Utah way?

I don't think I'd care as much for there as southern part of the state. It's too much like SE Idaho where I'm from originally.

There are parts of SE Idaho I don't mind all that much, but maybe not for year-round living.

Ideally I'd have a summer home there and another home to snowbird to during winter. For as frugal as I am, will likely make a decision for year-round because I don't want to maintain two homes.

The heavier traffic and population explosion has thrown me off guard the last couple times I've visited Utah and Idaho. The towns and cities were not created in mind for a population boom to the region. Infrastructure can barely keep pace with the growth.