I am seriously considering living throughout eternity without Jesus Christ. Certain books I've read recently have made me reconsider everything my Mormon zombie-parents taught me, except for how to open a fridge, how to use the shower knob (to avoid scalding) and how to properly fold my t-shirts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCp5mu9P13Q

If this is an unforgiveable sin, I am willing to take the chance. If Jesus will punish me for fully exercising my individual freedom, then I will ask for a public debate with Him, followed by a binding vote. If He is afraid to be exposed as a loving tyrant-in-disguise, it will be made clear.

I am ready to assume the command of my own future.

I don’t think Jesus is the bad guy. He went out and ministered to those the world despised. He visited lepers and devoted his ministry to healing the afflicted. If you just focus on Jesus’ message and not the convoluted teachings of various churches, it’s hard to find fault.

^^^ This is my take on Jesus, too. He taught a lot of good, basic tenets.

I,really don't see anything all that special or spiritually wonderous in anything he did or said. I do see him being a rigid sectarian when he compares a Cannanite woman to a dog when she asked for help and only helped after she basically kissed his Nazarine ass . he also had moment of acting like a nutter when he ripped down a fig tree because it had no fruit . This whole idea of vicarious redemption is immoral in my book . Where in the hell is responsibility in any of that? Speaking of hell, what all this about believe in me or you are screwed FOREVER which is neither just or merciful . Most overrated person in the history of mankind . Well maybe him or Billy Joel.

rubi123 Wrote:
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> I don’t think Jesus is the bad guy. He went out
> and ministered to those the world despised. He
> visited lepers and devoted his ministry to healing
> the afflicted. If you just focus on Jesus’
> message and not the convoluted teachings of
> various churches, it’s hard to find fault.

New Testament scholar, Bart Ehrman, writes:

“One of the key aspects of Jesus’ teachings was that those expecting the imminent arrival of God’s Kingdom need to prepare by living in ways that are appropriate to it. Life in the future Kingdom will reflect God’s values, such as love, justice, and freedom. These values should be reflected in how the followers of Jesus live in the present. In the future kingdom there will be no hatred, and so Jesus’ followers should love one another now. In the future kingdom there will be no loneliness, and so Jesus’ followers should visit the widows and orphans now. In the future kingdom there will be no poverty, and so Jesus’ followers should sell their possessions and give to the poor now. In the future kingdom there will be no hunger, and so Jesus’ followers should feed the hungry now. In the future kingdom there will be no sickness, and so Jesus’ followers should heal the sick now. In the future kingdom there will be no demons, and so Jesus’ followers should cast out demons now. In the future kingdom there will be no war, and so Jesus’ followers should work for peace now. In the future kingdom there will be no injustice, and so Jesus’ followers should fight injustice now.

“The future Kingdom could begin to be realized in the here and now, as Jesus’ followers begin to implement its values and standards in the present.” (Bart D. Ehrman, Peter, Paul, and Mary Magdalene: The Followers of Jesus in History and Legend, page 202.)

That's an idealized version of life everlasting, and I'm a believer. If there's no conflict in heaven, that doesn't explain how the war in heaven came to be, before the world began.

Wish that we could save the planet, one baby step at a time. Although is it ever enough to save ourselves, and in doing so redeem others?

I love the quote you shared btw. It is most eloquent.

Amyjo Wrote:
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If there's no conflict in
> heaven, that doesn't explain how the war in heaven
> came to be, before the world began.

Hi Amyjo,

Do you personally believe there was a war in heaven before the world began? I know that Mormons have believed that, but I can't think of other Christian churches that do. But perhaps some do and I don't know about them.

The Book of Revelation speaks of "war in heaven," but I never thought that in context (apart from a Mormon interpretation) that this was referring to something that took place "before the world began."

You can do all those things without any focus (or belief) in Jesus.

Jesus is santa for grown-ups.

I agree. Same concept.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> Jesus is santa for grown-ups.

Correct i did think about that a few weeks ago and connected the two.

I like what Paul Toscano said about Jesus:


"If He wasn't God, He should have been."

mormon nomore Wrote:
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> I am seriously considering living throughout
> eternity...

Are you sure there's an eternity to live?

Anyway, when I was on my way out of the church, I realized none the interesting people would be in the celestial kingdom. So why would I want to go there?

The jesus thing is a mindf-ck of oppression in my opinion.

To be fair, during his lifetime, Jesus had little interest in those people who were not Jewish. He was not unkind to the gentiles, but his mission, as he saw it, was to the Jews. So I think that the human who was Jesus would be perfectly okay with your sentiment towards him.

Christianity as we know it today is much more than Jesus. It is Jesus + Paul, who did a course correction away from a rather heretical Jewish sect, and carried Jesus's message to the gentiles.

I think Paul was more important than Jesus in creating early Christianity.

The fact that serious people debate whether Jesus existed either as an individual or as an amalgamation of characters and myths indicates that the historical personage was not critical to the religion. By contrast, few if any decent scholars question Paul's existence.

In other words, there could be--and in fact may already be--a Christianity without Jesus.

Few scholars question the existence of Jesus either, but you are right that without Paul, Christianity might have died out or, at best, been a.small Jewish sect.

I can testify that I've lived without Jesus for a couple of decades now and I'm just fine. I did keep one thing he seemed to preach: love one another.

I thought he had a good sense of humor. That business about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. I thought that was pretty funny.

I'm quite sure I have no need for a savior in some after life. And, I'm OK with that.

Still looking for a goddess I like....

It's possible to assume control of your own life while still having regard for Jesus, but if it doesn't work for you to do so, that, too, is fine.

Good luck.

The Jesus and God of the Mormon cult is not the same as the biblical Jesus and God. I know u were raised believing you had the same God as Christians, but that is far from the truth. You can have a personal relationship with Jesus because that is simply all he wants from you. The Mormon cult cheated you of that. God was always God throughout eternity and besides Him there were no other Gods and there will be none after him.

I very much look forward to the day that human beings stop concerning themselves with what may or may not have been the "teachings" of some guy who may or may not have existed a couple thousand years ago...and concern themselves with being good, honest, caring human beings and making a better world for all of us without superstition.

So what's to admire about Jesus?

He admitted that he was not perfect (Mark 10:18); lied about going to a feast (John 7:8-10); denied his mother in violation of the commandment to honor father and mother (Matt 12:48, Mark 3:33, John 2:4); also preached against that commandment (Matt 10:35, 15:4, Luke 12:51-53, 14:26); condoned violation of the Sabbath (Luke 6:1-4, Mark 2:23, 27, Matt 12:1); preached bravery (Luke 12:4) but acted cowardly (John 6:15, 7:1, 8:59, 10:39, 11:53-54, 12:36, Matt 10:23, 12:14-16, Mark 1:45); expressed unwillingness to perform his mission of being crucified (Matt 26:39, Mark 14:36, Luke 22:42); accused God of forsaking him (Matt 27:46, Mark 15:34); showed racial prejudice (Matt 15:22-26, to the Canaanite woman, Mark 7:25-27, to the Greek woman), because he said he was sent only to Jews; but then preached to the Samaritans (Luke 17:11, John 4); preached love of enemies, and non-resistance (Matt 5:44) but violently cleansed the temple, said he had come to bring not peace, but a sword (Matt 10:34); implies that his enemies would be slain (Luke 19:27); taught in parables so that people would not understand (Matt 11:25, Mark 4:11-12)

About the parables... What I thought was that he offered the parables so that each person could interpret them as best suited that individual. So in my mind, he wasn't trying to leave people perplexed, but giving them the opportunity to agree with him, based on their particular interpretation.

There was a book and then movie (with Peter Sellers) about a mentally challenged gardener who was thrust into the limelight because he was thought to be a brilliant 'parableist'. He would babble randomly and those listening would come up with interpretations that required them to praise him for his wisdom.

... I looked it up. "Being There" was the name of both the 1970 novel and the 1979 movie.

People love to find ways to confirm what they want to believe.

Even when for a time I thought Jesus was listening or course he never was. It's been me a long time.

Live without Jesus is great. You know where you stand. You feel full accountability instead of trying to outsource things to some man in the sky to save your ass. Invest in real people to do that because they will show up. Jesus / God have gone AWOL for a few 1000 years.

What worked for me was to look into the question of Jesus just like I did with Mormonism. I wanted the journey to be mine, not what people or religions told me it should be. It took time, energy and dedication, but in my book most things that are worthwhile do.

I studied anthropology, the study of man, at university where religion of the human race was discussed. Back then, I found it fascinating, still do, in all of its aspects.

My Jesus-journey has led me to the conclusion that during the history of mankind there exists various reliable records which show Saving-Resurrected-Savior-Figures in multiple cultures existed, and Jesus said to be born in Bethlehem is among them. Whether he existed as a real person is up in the air for me, but I mainly cling to the facts proving that he was a myth, created by man to serve various purposes. And, I will add, that I do not believe in the story that he arose from the dead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2018 05:53PM by presleynfactsrock.

Everyone is living a life without Jesus. Many of us know this.

Good heads up on that book per the link..I may have to read it. Have you read the book? Marie really sold it...sounds hilarious.