I just have to say this. I am an RM from TN. This forum is a misrepresnation of the world. I backed out of the church 13 years ago. We are not all liberal democrat people. It is weird to me to think that people here assume we are.And we are not all atheists. I traded out that crazy shit for my family and alcohol. It sucks. But at least im not a part of that. I came from a stake President father and mission President father who i love to finding my own way over the years.still super hard...but never went liberal. Am i still accepted as a exmormon? Idk. I still hate it and Christianity as much as any of us.

Be true to yourself, my friend. That's all I can advise.

It's cool. Just put the cuss warning in your subj. line, please. That might get you a smack, but it won't get you the ban hammer.

This board isn't a representation of the world, so it can't be a misrepresentation of the world.

I'm a commie, by the way.

Beth Wrote:
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> I'm a commie, by the way.

:D :D :D

if there was a like button, i would press like to this post

Not all liberals here jthomas.

meaning what ?

I'm against abortion, alcohol, Democrats, Republicans, cigarettes, cigars, chew, and am not an atheist.

I don't know what i believe in if i am honest. Pain and the medical field. I have never really fit in here or religion but i still post a lot. There is a secret to my madness of therapy. I think i may be a closet believer of a god of some kind but i am not a fan at this point.

I am a nevermo who used to identify as politically conservative and is now quite liberal. I became more liberal when I left the United States and saw how other people live. I think living abroad has made me more community minded and compassionate.

But I also grew up in the South and most of my family and many of my friends are conservatives. I generally don't care what a person's political leanings are, as long as they don't behave like assholes.

I do hate 45 with a flaming passion, though... and most of his incompetent administration. I have never said or felt that about any other president.

I don't understand why some people see "liberal" as a dirty word. There's nothing wrong with it... just like there's nothing wrong with being conservative. Just don't be a jerk.

+ 1

You seem to be upset--maybe did one of your posts get rejected? This happens, from time to time, and often with no known reason. Usually, if you rewrite your post, it will be accepted. It's frustrating to go through each word, to try to figure which word or phrase caused the ban. I think RFM uses a computerized censoring system, which is no respecter of persons.

Don't take it personally.

RFM is (and it SHOULD be) a respecter of individuality. All of here are trying to recover from a cult that stripped us of all individualigy, of thinking outside the box, of being able to freely ask questions, and of some of our human rights.

It is beautiful, when you think of how that evil cult tried to stuff us into the same rigid mold--and, here we are, each one of us so different! It is essential, in order for RFM to function, that ALL are accepted here (except for trolls and Mormon apologists). We have active Mormons who post here regularly. Atheists are outspoken, but they don't dominate the board. There are members with all the political leanings.

We are not allowed to discuss politics, here, for good reason! Can you imagine the aguments that we would have on here? There's no set of political ideas that we agree on, here! I don't think we're allowed to try to recruit or advertise our own favorite new religious groups, either. I've never tried, because "recruiting" is something I'm here on RFM to learn how to avoid. I like to hold my opinions in abeyance, because the purpose of this board is to help each other learn, recover, gain insight. and deal with Mormonism and Mormon abuse.

It doesn't matter so much where we end up--it matters that we and our loved ones find a way to escape the cult, with minimum harm and losses.

Well said exminion well said.

Politics is my capture. You strike me as someone who never got very far away from red state mentality. There's nothing wrong with that.

Since the election 2016, I started consuming a vast array of media from across the right to left spectrum. I've been a conservative. I've been a liberal. I had a socialist phase too. I think I'm swinging more towards the center where I can appreciate the concerns and cultures of both sides of the American culture war. My latest binge is the alternative right, or the rightwing pundits that exist on new media like youtube and twitter. There are all kinds of people at every point on the political spectrum. You would never guess the depth of their convictions and the power of their worldview by referring to a dumbed-down stereotype.

There are two great tribes in America now because there are two great parties — conservatives and liberals, the left and the right. When they talk about each other to their own bases, I can hardly tell who they're talking about. They're growing apart, but it doesn't seem necessary to me. According to PEW Research Center, there's a growing polarization between the vocal left and the vocal right, but not between the unvocal left and the unvocal right. People who don't make much ado about politics have more in common with other people who don't make much ado about politics than they realize. It's the ideologues who can't shut up who have nothing in common anymore.

You don't have to subject your personal culture, the culture of your own mind, to the peanut gallery of the internet if you don't want to. But if you do, be prepared to be taken by the current towards the Left Pole or the Right Pole. Everyone has opinions, and the internet has given us all a platform.

I like being heterodox, holding opinions from both sides. It's impossible to hold conflicting opinions at the same time — what I mean is that I keep separate books up to date. Whichever I decide to talk like in conversation usually depends on who I'm talking to. Having an interesting conversation is more important to me than clinging to an ideology and proving all others wrong.

You are an exmormon if you left the church. You could be a closeted exmormon if you left mentally but stayed in physically. There's no correct way to be exmormon beyond that. One reason I left is because dogma sucks ass. Just do you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2018 04:51AM by Cold-Dodger.

The alt-right? OMG! You must be a Nazi! ;)

As others have stated, there are all different kinds here. Some are more vocal than others which is why you might get the impression that they predominate.

But seriously, I was a disciple of William F. Buckley when I was young and championed Reagan and even Bush 41...

"As you are, I once was....

As I am, you may become."

It wasn't the liberals who seduced me; it was Boss Humbaugh® and Sean Hannity who led me to recognize I didn't fit with their double-digit I.Q. worldview.

Personally, though, looking at the Mormons and how "conservative" they are for the most part, I'd be really nervous about any right wing ideas...

I do believe the words Conservative and Liberal are useless. They really are of little value except as slurs for the most part nowadays, as each word seems to represent an extreme that does not reflect the complexity of either camp whose make-up is far more splintered than is apparent.

We love to label and classify. Makes us feel like we know what is going on. However, these words--conservative, liberal-- are divisive and our young are taught to identify with one or the other often rather than choosing door number three: Neither--with a side of empathy, kindness, and common sense as we strive for accomplishment.

This is very much like the choice of which religion to belong to and no one ever recommends investigating door number three either, which many of us here did.

You will either enjoy this forum or not but that is about who you are as much as about who we are. Welcome from a liberal I guess I am. I just think of myself as someone who always looks for a few other doors.

Yeah, it's silly to be a liberal, just like it's silly to be a conservative.

They're just labels that generally don't accurately inform anyone to what you actually think about a given subject, and often misinforms them.

Those of us in the center are winning right now (as we always do) because the tug of war game being played by the left and right keeps the good stuff right in the middle for us to enjoy.

Sometimes we laugh at how hard the liberals and conservatives are pulling at each other, but then we just get back to enjoying the fruits of living in the greatest country on the earth.

It's all very entertaining!

Ya, really. Saying you are liberal or conservative will serve you just as poorly as when you said, "I'm a Mormon."

Hmmm....

The fabrication/plagiarism of the BoM and BoA, plus "revelations" supposedly from God Almighty that "commanded" things like polygamy, and is the root of the Northern European white male dominated corporate cult based in SLC, is neither right nor left, theist nor atheist.

Just my 2 cents before I head out the door to sacrifice some babies, listen to NPR and advance global climate change all at the same time...

Both political parties are piles of horse5hit. In my post mormon worldview I have found that neither party represents my beliefs. I'm what you could call a Free Range Independent. I'm pretty liberal in most social issues but lean conservative in other areas.

What others above have said is true - just be yourself.

I am not on the spectrum between Liberal and Conservative. I am independent who voted for NdGT/Nye for President because I am sick and tired of having only choices between the lesser of two evils, which is still fucking evil.

Is change inherently good or bad? Is experience worthwhile or a hindrance to progress? Does a specific value gain relevance the longer it is held or is past performance unrelated to future performance?

You are on the spectrum and so is everyone else. Setting aside the co-opted definitions of political parties there is value in understanding where your initial value structure places you.

jacob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is change inherently good or bad? Is experience
> worthwhile or a hindrance to progress? Does a
> specific value gain relevance the longer it is
> held or is past performance unrelated to future
> performance?
>
> You are on the spectrum and so is everyone else.
> Setting aside the co-opted definitions of
> political parties there is value in understanding
> where your initial value structure places you.

I am more progressive than Bernie Sanders, but not a Marxist. I am more politically aligned with the Dalai Lama, Jane Goodall and Malala than I am with any American politician, who are all corrupt as hell.
Our system is broken.
But we are all too apathetic and placated by prosperity to change it.

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jacob Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is change inherently good or bad? Is experience
> > worthwhile or a hindrance to progress? Does a
> > specific value gain relevance the longer it is
> > held or is past performance unrelated to future
> > performance?
> >
> > You are on the spectrum and so is everyone
> else.
> > Setting aside the co-opted definitions of
> > political parties there is value in
> understanding
> > where your initial value structure places you.
>
> I am more progressive than Bernie Sanders, but not
> a Marxist. I am more politically aligned with the
> Dalai Lama, Jane Goodall and Malala than I am with
> any American politician, who are all corrupt as
> hell.
> Our system is broken.
> But we are all too apathetic and placated by
> prosperity to change it.

I do think the system is broken as well but i am sure if i were a millionaire in this broken system i would want to keep things exactly as they are. Tired of feeling like just a pawn in a play or a leaf in a hurricane. There are only myths of real opportunity and prosperity IMO. Worked my butt off in this system and it got me no where in the end but disabled and injured really.

I think you miss my point. You are probably conservative about your haircut and liberal about your socks.

Everyone is conservative and liberal. Forget the co-opted definitions, allow yourself a little bit of reflection. You'll be able to place yourself along that spectrum without being offended at yourself about where you land.

I see you are very new to RfM.

Naw, very few people get banned from this website.

You are fine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2018 11:36AM by angela.

Just be yourself. We are all individuals.

Well you've been here almost twelve hours, and still are not banned.

Must have set a RfM record? Or something? ;-0

That's because no one started talking about race realism yet. ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2018 03:20PM by london.

london Wrote:
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> That's because no one started talking about race
> realism yet. ;)

If what I just read as the result of a Google search for the phrase "race realism" is accurate, then it is also accurate (in this year of 2018) that this would probably be considered racism on this board, and racism is not allowed here.

This is relatively new, in that discussions of racial differences (the ones I remember involve intelligence/IQ/spatial and mathematical vs. verbal abilities, etc.), used to happen (in my memory) once or twice a year.

Unfortunately, and here on RfM, the world has changed in ways which make these kinds of discussions extremely difficult at this point in time...

...which I find personally depressing, since there are aspects of this discussion I am (and have always been, since I was really little) intensely interested in (for all kinds of reasons). Some of my favorite (and illuminating ) discussions here on RfM, in the last fifteen years, have been on these related topics, and sadly, right now, I do not see how these same discussions, were they to happen now, could be in conformance with the rules.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2018 03:37PM by Tevai.

The term "race realism" was raised the other day by a poster who used it as an excuse to spout all sorts of bile. The same poster then proceeded to produce screeds about what might be called "gender realism." All of those posts were expunged because they were ill-informed, employed some of the worst possible slurs, and offended at least some of us (as well, presumably, as potential newcomers to this site).

The notion of "race realism" is in fact racist, propounded by racists. The old racists said that certain groups were superior to others. There was a backlash, in my view correct, arguing that people were basically equal regardless of gender and ethnicity. "Race realism" is a reaction against that egalitarianism. It is not scientific or objective. It is new lipstick on an old pig.

A simple test is this: do the advocates of "race realism" use neutral and scientific terminology or do they slip into the old racist argot? If the latter, perhaps they are not rational analysts but simply bigots.

Another test: do their arguments support the notion that one particular ethnicity is intellectually and morally superior on all of the important points? Is that one particular ethnicity the historically dominant one? If so, then they are probably traditional bigots trying to recoup some of the social and political privileges they lost to the Civil War, the Civil Rights Movement, and common sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2018 04:31PM by Lot's Wife.

jthomas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> finding my own way over the years.still super
> hard...but never went liberal. Am i still accepted
> as a exmormon?

We all are. Just because the Mormon Church is mostly the opposite of Liberal doesn't mean anything in not believing it anymore.

We aren't human ping pong though with organizations of humans and especially the Mormon Church we are treated as such.

We are always at war with X is something we can ditch. We don't have to be at war with nobody.

I m a trump support, believe in God. And drink occasionally. And support LBGQT. I go to different churches sometimes with my friend. I was born a Mormon but never got deeply rooted in it. Single never married female no. Children. 43 years old. I maybe don't represent the majority on this board. I,m also autistic, aspie

I too find it bizarre that someone would liberate themselves from one oppressive system (Mormonism) and then run headlong into another one (Socialism). And yet so many do.

Aço Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I too find it bizarre that someone would liberate
> themselves from one oppressive system (Mormonism)

Me: [a religion]


> and then run headlong into another one
> (Socialism).

Me: [an economic system]


> And yet so many do.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

In SOME, relatively isolated, instances in history, religion and economic systems have, indeed, COMBINED, but these are usually historical outliers: Mormonism under Brigham Young (or Joseph Smith, from what I understand) would be one example of such an historical outlier.

Most of the time, and certainly most of the time in Western cultures, religion (or lack of religion in some cases, such as Communist China under Mao) and economic systems CO-EXIST, but one does not lead to the other.

Most Western culture countries, and indeed most contemporary cultures throughout the world, have a specific economic system (whatever it may be), while their citizens most often come from different religions (even in cases, such as the UK, where there is an "official church").

The Scandinavian countries (as an easy example; my uncle lived in Scandinavian countries for most of my growing-up years) are known for their economic socialism (and also, repeatedly, for being among the "happiest countries in the world")--which has nothing to do with any religion (or the lack of any religion) any particular citizen or resident might be affiliated with.

Why do you think that leaving Mormonism (a religion) changes the overall ECONOMIC views of ex-Mormons?

I do not see the connection.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2018 07:15PM by Tevai.

Be a conservative.
Be a liberal.
Be a theist.
Be an atheist.
Just whatever you do, don't be a shitbag. And no, neither conservative nor liberal are synonyms for shitbag.

I don't fit in here, either.

Seems many go from the bigotry and control of Mormonism, to the bigotry and control of exmormonism, or feminism, or socialism, or whatever ideology.

Ultimately, people are like other animals, looking for the easiest way to survive. Usually that means banding together in some group and hating others, and working to get resources, or finding a way to steal or coerce others into giving up their stuff.

For example, both parties use the force of government to extract money from us to give to whoever will do them favors.

Socialism depends money gathered by force - don't pay taxes and someone with a gun will eventually come around. Don't want to have kids? You will still be forced to pay for schooling other people's kids in our socialist public school system.

Modern day feminists rely on lies (gender wage gap, rape culture, men biggest threats in domestic violence, etc) to shame and gain favor. It is a power thing.

Marriage is the same. Get stuck in a contract and if broken, get robbed in court. Nothing to do with love. All about fear of reprisal.

Liberals and conservatives 2 sides of same coin - both use government force to impose their views and extract money. Both agree that government is god and and the source of all goodness, whether bombing or subsidizing farmers or handing out welfare checks or whatever - all the same belief - government action will fix things.

Vote and pray to government, and pay your tithing, er, taxes, and all will be well.....

I'd just like to point out that "gender wage gap, rape culture, men biggest threats in domestic violence" are not lies but demonstrable facts...

Don't bring up reality. It has a well known liberal bias.

FM didn't trash LGBTQ people. Oversight? Nor did he trash the military, which is a total cradle to grave socialist system (literally - they have their own hospitals, extra pay when you add a child to your family, their own legal system, their own cemeteries, their own housing, or a housing allowance, their own retail outlets, etc etc). That socialism always gets a pass.

I just got back from two weeks in Scandinavia. Apparently I haven't recovered yet. ;)

"Usually that means banding together in some group and hating others"

Exactly. We are human. That is what humans do. Every other group does. Embrace it, or be eliminated by the evolutionary forces. Hate isn't probably the word I would gave choose, but you are describing reality very well.

This is so true, and liberal neo-Marxist, post-modernist, multi-culti, globalist, consumerist, hedonistic way is a religion unto itself. I think ex-Mormons really need to show an extreme aversion to any good values the Church might try to pass along, values that have been the standard of Western Civilization. Now, the West's value system is nothing but "do whatever makes you happy, unhealthy levels of acceptance and tolerance, accept of course idiological descent. I also think ex-Mormon understandably need a good support network, so it's easy to gain friends when you adopt the most widely held positions in mainstream society.

I also have a theory that ex-Mormons are only able to really handle one red pill in their life. I have friends I try to red pill on other truths and it seems like the LDS red pill is enough for most to sort out in one lifetime, but their are definitely realities even more difficult to understand and process.

As far as values. I do not buy into compassion, empathy, niceness, and the pursuit of "happiness" as the only maximal values for advanced civilizations to exist. I believe Western Civilization to be in full decline because we live in a massive reality distortion that allows us to temporarily place these as the only values, or the maximal values.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2018 03:14PM by london.

Yes, I am a European type Socialist. But, I am not an atheist. I am Pagan.

I have been on the board almost since its inception. But, I don't post much anymore. I've been out of the church for over 20 years, so others have a much more current understanding of what is going on there.

But, I do agree with you that the board can currently be hostile to non-atheists. That's where it is right now. It may change, it may not. There are other boards who are more believing in nature. If I can't handle this one, I can always go to one that is more conducive to my point of view. But, I don't, because RFM is my home.

Welcome to RFM.

Just be who you authentically are and you'll be fine .

Hooray for jthomas for starting a very interesting thread with what I assume is your first post. Look at how many responses you have generated.

It should be clear from the above posts that ex-Mormons are not a homogenous group, particularly in their political beliefs. We do have in common a history of Mormonism with most of us no longer in the fold. However, some of us have left quietly without any rancor toward anyone in the Church while others have stories of conflict and abuse.

Your post interested me as I am decidedly an atheist but am politically quite conservative. I have no problem with other points of view, I just don't like the assumption that if I am an atheist I must also be politically liberal.

I agree with others who have said that they dislike labels. I may have views on any given issue that are different from the prevailing opinion assumed to belong the that label.

I believe that in religion and in politics true believers see the world through that particular lens and it distorts reality. Religion and politics are so much alike.