Today I was under a lot of stress. Work, health, finance, family drama and that's for starters.

One of my kids came by to borrow some tools and emergency kit for a long road trip. So I took off work to get things ready.

My head is buried in my trunk as I look for some of what they'll need. These two missionaries pull up into the driveway on bikes.

Hello they say. I ignore them.

Hello they say again. I ssk them to go away and leave me alone.

When can we come back? Never I say. Go away.

When can we come back they repeat.

Go away means move down the road and leave me f alone. Go away. I raise my voice.

When can we come back they insist.

I finally told them I had it. I pulled out my cell phone.

Leave now or I'll call the cops.

Then they do the Beavis and Butthead giggle.

So I turn my phone on speaker. Dial 911. As soon as the dispatcher says 911 they pull away.

I told the dispatcher some kids were trespassing and refusing to leave and that as soon as they heard her voice they rode off.

She said it happens more than you'd think.

Why does it take extreme measures to get them to comply?

Because they think they're holy, chosen, and above the law.

Now that they've ridden off, they're talking among themselves, saying how misguided and in the dark you are, you heathen you. You just gave them a faith-affirming story: that they're so right that Satan inspires heathens like you to call the cops on them.

I wonder if Koriwhore would have made a citizen's arrest, then held them until the cops could come to collect them? And the whole time he could have gone all Socratic on their detained behinds?

elderolddog Wrote:
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> I wonder if Koriwhore would have made a citizen's
> arrest, then held them until the cops could come
> to collect them? And the whole time he could have
> gone all Socratic on their detained behinds?
I would have hit the record button and asked them questions and published their blatant lies.

They have God on their side so you don't count.

On my mission the president often gave talks on not taking no for an answer. We were led to believe our persistence would be taken as admirable diligence showing spiritual fervor by those we approached rather than irritating annoyance. It never was. We only annoyed people.

Well, I didn't. I always took no for an answer but some of my seniors were like the missionaries you just described. I used to get really embarrassed when they got smugly pushy. They saw the "contact" as inferior and too sinful and arrogant to recognize the messengers of God. haha.

You did the right thing. When you asked them to leave your property they should have left promptly. I would call or write the mission president to lodge a complaint.

They were trespassing and knew it. Once a person tells someone to leave their property they must do it.

I think like Summer, that you could (if you want) log a complaint with the mission prez. Leave a message on his cell phone if it's listed and leave it at that.

They could likely get reamed out for this one.

But if your going to be "noble", then just forget it, remember that actions and words are more important than irritations, that we should never swear at a stranger or raise our voice to anyone without a violent cause, and should always give them the benefit of the doubt as well.

Someone in their home has a right to privacy and consideration. There is no need to give trespassing strangers any benefits.

Sounds a little extreme to me. Were they holding you down against your will? Couldn't you have just ignored them, walked back into the house, and closed the door behind you?

I would imagine the police have more pressing issues to deal with.

Two strangers were on the OP's property harassing the OP. They initially refused to leave when asked to do so. Even the police would agree that they want you to call them in such a scenario. That's what they are there for.

Oh yes those mean, non-lethal, non-threatening, clean-cut, wearing suits and ties, strangers (even though OP knew who they were). Let's call the cops...I can taste the fear.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A GREAT use of police time and resources. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully OP can recover from such a traumatic encounter. Perhaps find a "quiet space", take a nap, blow some bubbles, do some coloring, wrap up in a blankey, and cuddle up with a therapy dog.

A stranger (dictionary definition: someone that you don't know and to whom you have not been introduced) who won't leave your property when asked to is NOT being a nice, respectful, law-abiding individual. Yes, that person may very well need the intervention of a law enforcement officer who will educate that individual about the law.

And we are not talking about mature adults here. We are talking about kids who have just gotten out of high school, who are often lacking in maturity, and may need some additional "schooling."

I live in a very safe community, and on the rare occasions when my neighbors have needed to call the police, the police always state that they are glad that the neighbor called and are happy to respond. The police don't feel that we are wasting their time *at all*. They know who pays their salaries!

The Mormon church would not hesitate to call the police if an unwanted individual is on their private property and refuses to leave. In fact, the church recently did just that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2018 07:50PM by summer.

Jaxson Wrote:
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> Oh yes those mean, non-lethal, non-threatening,
> clean-cut, wearing suits and ties, strangers (even
> though OP knew who they were). Let's call the
> cops...I can taste the fear.
>

I saw the exercise as a great learning experience for the elders of zion! It fostered within them the idea that sometimes people will react to you in ways that you might not like, but must be prepared to handle. (now this is just me being silly) Too bad the elders didn't have the strength of their convictions to await the arrival of the cops, so they could hand out BofMs.


> LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A GREAT use of police time
> and resources. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

Stupidest argument ever... Please furnish us your approved list of use of police time and resources so that the matter can be debated.


> Hopefully OP can recover from such a traumatic
> encounter. Perhaps find a "quiet space", take a
> nap, blow some bubbles, do some coloring, wrap up
> in a blankey, and cuddle up with a therapy dog.

Nothing in the OP indicates this was necessary; it is a gratuitous attempt to firm up your opinion of yourself as a really strong person, but I doubt anyone is buying it.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...but I doubt
> anyone is buying it.

You're right :)

Jaxson.

Missionaries are by no means nonlethal. The harm caused by Mormonism shall never be near my grand kids.

Allowing these children to bully us is not an option.

Obviously you'd allow them to run rough shod over you. That is you're choice. Bow down to them. Kiss their feet. But for me and mine they shall never impose themselves on us, especially at my home.

You didn't see the sneer or hear the laugh when I politely asked them to leave.

If nothing else they know that at least one person will stand up to them, their lies, the evil their church represents. That one man says no, you are not above the law. No, you are not allowed to harrass. No, you are not allowed to disrespect anyone. No means no.

Nope. We pay for our police and they are happy to help.

"Couldn't you have just ignored them, walked back into the house, and closed the door behind you?"

Why should OP do that? It's OP's property. Retreating into the house is allowing the missionaries to control the situation on OP's home turf.

Are you a conservative? (You all but called OP a "snowflake" in your personal attack.) If so, you should be familiar with the concept known as "property rights." Conservatives just love property rights.

I wouldn't have called them either, not because the cops have better things to do, but because I do.

I also prefer to minimize my exposure to people who can, if they want to, violate my rights, unjustly take away my freedom, and look like the good guys while doing it.

I am not running and hiding from these insolent rude little boys. I am on my land. They are the ones that need to leave.

You could do that.

I prefer to offer them a cold beer and a blow job.

Some like the water hose.

Whatever floats your boat.

You did great, OP. Otherwise those jerks would have harassed you to hell and back. The time I called the police on some no boundaries missionaries and douchey members, worked like magic. The magic act was called "watch me make stalkers vanish."

In most states, once someone is told to leave your property, and they don't, it is criminal trespass. You were not out of line telling them to f-off and then calling the authorities.

I never had much trouble with LDS types buzzing off, but some of the JWs and Adventists had to have it spelled out to them. Sometimes including four letter words.

Please cite the statutes of the states to which you refer that define “Criminal Trespass” the way you describe, specifically as it applies to the groups you mention.

https://definitions.uslegal.com/c/criminal-trespass/

There you go.

Go push over their bikes and then stomp on the spokes.

That used to work when a fight started up after grade school.
Actually it stopped one fight and started another.

This is not an isolated incident. They are trained and practice role-playing scenarios to take control of a reluctant investigator. They have been taught to be pushy; especially with a MP that scares and threaten them. My MP would say "And when you meet up with our savior, can you say that you did EVERYTHING to save your fellow brother or sister? Don't take no for an answer or apologize for preaching the gospel.

I've had to call the sheriff because two elders refused to leave the front porch.

You’re lucky they didn’t dust their feet at you.

As they are, we once were. You missed a perfectly good opportunity to mess with their brainwashed heads.

These were not kids. They were adults. Why did you lie to the 911 people and say they were kids? You should have told the 911 people that they are mormon missionaries and that you want the police to come take a report because they refused to leave your property. Even if you are in Utah, that's what you should have done. Then call the Mission President.

Out here in the country where everyone has large arsenals , if tresspassers won't leave, they are held at gunpoint until the sheriff arrives.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out here in the country where everyone has large
> arsenals , if tresspassers won't leave, they are
> held at gunpoint until the sheriff arrives.


Well, that would wipe the smart alecky smiles off their faces. Yet it might get one arrested for brandishing a gun. Lol

Thank you OP! WTG!

It was self-affirming for you to take charge on your own property. I'm glad you didn't interrupt your busy task, and retreat into the house. I'm glad you didn't encourage them with a smile or a drink of water, etc.

Do you understand, that by discouraging these missionaries, you might have done me a great personal favor? Maybe the missionaries gave up and went home, instead of making their next stop. That next stop on their list might have been one of my loved ones--so I thank you!

You did me (or someone else) a big favor!

+1

Many of these missionaries are victimized by a manipulative system that has a tight grip on every aspect of their lives. Nevertheless, members of a free and open society still need to obey the law and respect the rights of others. If missionaries are violating either of these, it seems reasonable to me to involve the police. The OP was there and we were not. It was his call.

Well done. They should leave when you tell them the very first time.

I had a run in with the missionaries a few months back.

This was the third time since we moved into our house about a year and a half ago. They were trying my patience, but I guess I deserve it for all the Germans I bugged with my own zealotry.

The first time was at about 8:30 pm just after getting the baby to sleep--agh!

Second time, my Mormon parents were visiting--agh!!!-can you say awkward?

Third time, they weren't being particularly obnoxious or catching me at a bad time, but after listening to their spiel about eternal families etc.--I could contain myself no longer. I gave them the skinny on the Book of Abraham and some Book of Mormon problems, as well as what I thought of the LDS Church's treatment of LGBT+ people. That kind of got them looking for the ejection handle (aka "the spirit of contention") pretty quick.

The last time I talked to missionaries about those things was right before I resigned. I felt kind of nervous about it back then. It wasn't that I thought they would prove me wrong or anything like that. I just felt nervous talking about it with anyone. This time (over a decade later) it was kind of like--yeah this stuff is false you need to know it and move on with your lives or whatever.

In that situation I'd have called 911 in a heartbeat, and I would have told the 911 operator that it was Mormon missionaries trespassing, not "kids".

I would also have taken their photos with my phone, making sure to get the name tags, asked for their MP's name and address, and told them I was recording the rest of the conversation.

That'd shut the little jerks up.

You may not have had time, but I've found if you want them to stay away, the effect is much longer lasting if you share ideas or experiences they don't want to hear.

You can ask them about polygamy, or blacks and the priesthood, or whatever.

I also like to share stories I've experienced or seen in which inspiration was bogus. Like blessings promising to heal and the person died, or inspired calling issued, only to have the person state they were leaving the ward next week. Or failure by inspired leaders to discipline adulterers in the ward. Or the patriarch, speaking for the Lord, forgot to pronounce my lineage, so I had to go back......

Then ask why people don't share such stories in F&T meeting, but only the ones where inspiration seemed right. The cherry-picking is dishonest, and church is supposed to be about honesty.

How can you proclaim you have the truth, when you refuse to consider the alternative? Can a scientist prove a theory by ignoring contrary data? Can an attorney prove guilt by ignoring contrary evidence?

The whole idea of faith is bogus. You're deciding in advance what to believe, and then make the evidence fit. That is how most scams work.

Also fun to tell them you've decided to go with Option B, the terrestrial kingdom, because it better fits your interests. Tell them you're not interested in eternal meetings and temple sessions, but would rather go fishing or whatever.

Ask if they're looking forward to eternal missions and temple work and meetings. And reporting statistics on such.

When they tell you how wonderful the CK is, just tell them that is their opinion, and you prefer to exercise your free agency, and choose lower kingdom. Surely they don't want to be like Satan and pressure you to choose the one path.

You might also suggest you want to donate money to pain research, considering the millions in debilitating pain, unresponsive to god's power. Tithe to research instead of building more great and spacious buildings.

You might also mention how tough it must be for them to be out there because they have pressure from home. They will deny that, but remind them likely their parents will be very disappointed if they quit, and many mormon girls require an RM to marry.

I would point out relatives whose wives left them when they quit church.

Also ask how their stats are going. Like do they get points for talking to you.

I could go on and on, but if you throw stuff like this out, they won't be back anytime soon.

Trespass is defined slightly variously in differing jurisdictions, but shares common-law roots throughout the US. Check the definition link Hie posted above. Generally, trespass occurs:

1) after a person has been told to depart from property,but refuses to do so.
2) When a person ignores a posted sign
3) When a person has opened a gate or door or breached a barrier of some kind, such as a fence.

You have every right to call the police, although I think facing a person squarely and telling them to leave, phone in hand, should be sufficient. Brother of Jerry is spot-on: take their names, take images, demand to know whom they report to.

If you do call the police, understand "your mileage may vary." Some cops may look annoyed, others not so. If the problem has been recurring, request the officer(s) to ID the misshies and write a report, then ask for the report/dispatch reference number so you can obtain a copy, and ask for the officer's name, unit ID, sector or district. Also makes notes about time, duration of event, summary of who said what, etc. At the least, note his cruiser number.

If the misshies leave, call 911 back and cancel the call.

Dave, pulling a firearm on teenagers who are very unlikely to be armed is fraught with legal risk, even if they are obnoxious and stubborn, and you're in a very rural area. In most jurisdictions, absent genuinely threatening actions or remarks, you might be hit with a charge such as armed assault, brandishing, or something.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2018 11:55PM by caffiend.

If someone tells the bishop to keep members away, it isn't the resident's fault if he fails to do his duty. I'd be glad to notify each member if the bish would give me all of their names and addresses. If he won't do that, it's up to him to see that they don't harass me.

The police chief in my area told the bishop, the mission pres, and the SP to keep their underlings away from me. Then the police told me they would arrest anyone who refused to comply.

"Leave now or I'll call the cops."

"Then they do the Beavis and Butthead giggle."

That would really piss me off.

I'm lucky because I live in a southern state with no serious LDS membership. You can go a lifetime in my area without seeing missionaries. But if I lived in an area with a couple of smartasses like these guys I'd keep a few hardcore porn magazine s around and ask the boys "ever seen ones like this"?

It would be like showing a vampire a cross. I bet they would never bother you again.