Ok I am so tired of articles that say don't be rude to missionaries, offer them water and blah blah! Yeah and the missionaries won't leave you alone! Once you accept that stupid book of Mormon or let them in they will keep coming back!

I made the mistake of feeling bad for them and took their pathetic lessons and they pressure you to be baptized! And lie to you to!like Joseph Smith never married 43 wives or we accept everyone! We don't know the answer to that!

You need to let the missionaries know that they can not knock on anyone's door at all and if you are nice they won't stop coming back! It is a cult you are dealing with and so tired of cults

deep breath. You can do it.

If you're tired of such articles, don't read 'em...

I was a missionary for 2 years. I was mostly an ignorant kid duped into "serving" for the first year or so. The second year I had grown up, wised up, and began to question. Some of the people who got me to question were kind non-mormons, some were unkind people who told me the naked truth. It took both kinds to get me to wise up...but having been one, I feel empathy for the kids. I know what they're going through.

I'd suggest that you can say what YOU want to do/will do, but telling me I "need to" do something won't get you anywhere. I don't "need to" do anything you say -- I make my own decisions. Something to think about.

Seriously, they're not special.

Being a mormon missionary is a lot of fun if you're not religious. I deserved to have nice things said about me!

The problem is many people here were missionaries and/or have kids on missions.

Many people see these teenagers as victims of the church, duped into doing a mission. Many are coerced by family.

Some people see them as children.


These missionaries, legally adults though many act like children, are brought up being told they are special, infallible servants of god called by the profit himself.

Personally I have seen these missionaries be rude, obstinate and at times semi violent.

Like anyone, each is different and we need to tailor our response accordingly.

The ones that are respectful to me I am respectful in return.

The ones that are not, I call out and stand up to. They never get a free pass from me.

I won't recount it here, but I have told the story of my slamming a missionary against a wall. But I have also fed and clothed missionaries.

Don't forget that missionaries want you to be Mormon! And will say all the nice stuff to get you in and you are stuck! Yes you can be nice but also say I am not interested at all and want nothing to do with your church! It is hard but Jehovah's witnesses are more aggressive and very hard to get rid of

In my opinion planting little seeds is very helpful. How come in the Book of Mormon it says to not do polygamy but yet Joseph Smith did it? You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

I actually like them. I see them as the most tragic victims of the cult.

I chat with them and ask about the Second Annointing. They don't know anything about it. I ask why Brigham Young stole so much tithing money, that the church had to sue his estate to get some of it back. I ask if they want to read "The Great War between The United States And Great Britain."

I suspect they go back to their handlers and pass on those questions.

That's what I used to do, anyway. But, we don't see them in our area anymore--not for about two years.

So stop reading mormon "articles".

I think being nice is generally a good idea.

If I was a TBM visiting here, don't know if I would want to become as afraid and angry as many exmos.

I invite them in, and when they ask about my views toward church, I share them. And they don't usually come back for years.

This site is supposedly about "recovery". I define that as going your own way, and losing your fear and anger toward Mormons.

So the fear and anger promoted here by many, delays recovery.

My way of facing my fears is to disarm them. I legally divorced my RM ex-husband, when he started to beat me. I screamed when my friend's RM fiancee started to rape me at Cannon center. I told a Mormon WM president to leave my son alone and get out of my house, as I was dialing 911. My boundary for missionaries is at my front door, with a No Solicitors sign. If they keep knocking persistently, I yell through the door, to go away, or I will call the police. My personal boundaries for missionaries are: Do not make eye contact. Do not acknowledge them. Run.

I have learned from experience, which I won't go into right now.

As a mother, my first motive in dealing with crooks and cult members, is to protect my children.

All missionaries--even the young ones, even the ones who pretend to be the most innocent--are after your children.

If you help missionaries, if you send your own nice sons out there, you are helping spread the cult. You are encouraging missionaries to knock on MY door and the door of MY loved ones. In that way, I'm telling you what to do. It sounds bossy, but you haven't experienced what my children and I have experienced at their hands.

Basic politeness and common decency.

Ask them why they sing the praises of an adulterer and child rapist? And how is that any different from Fundamentalist MORmONs singing the praises of Warren Jeffs as he rots in jail for the rest of his pathetic life on multiple child rape convictions?
They tuck their tails and run.

I think that whole thing about Mormons having devil horns and tails is an urban myth.

There it is. Child rapist!!! Aaaaahhhhh! They sing his praises!!!! Aaaaahhhhh!!!!!!
Wait...what about the army of doomsday sex cult recruiters? And..and...and...you just want honest answers right?

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There it is. Child rapist!!! Aaaaahhhhh! They
> sing his praises!!!! Aaaaahhhhh!!!!!!
> Wait...what about the army of doomsday sex cult
> recruiters? And..and...and...you just want honest
> answers right?
Child Rape apologists are as evil as child rapizts.

Dalai Lama said:

“Be kind whenever possible. It’s always possible.”


I haven always lived these words, but I’m going to start.

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dalai Lama said:
>
> “Be kind whenever possible. It’s always
> possible.”
>
>
> I haven always lived these words, but I’m going
> to start.

I'm not the Dalai Lama, but then again I am not the spiritual leader of a country that got wiped off the map, while I was being kind to my opressers,

Koriwhore,

You're killing me.

We aren't talking about a country that was laid waste by some oppressive government here. I believe that mormonism could be that, if people continue financing their crazy growth, but for now, just politely tell the (yes, for some, the oppressive) mormon church and its young missionaries that you're finished. Formally resigning will help a lot.

If that doesn't work for them, tell them that you'll seek legal council.


But, please put away the gas can and the lit highway flare.

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Koriwhore,
> But, please put away the gas can and the lit
> highway flare.

I'll put away the gas can and flare when Mormon kids I know and love are no longer being silenced while their rapists are protected, just because they have penises and show up to church every Sunday dressed in business attire, to sing the praises of a rapist.

Until they feel free to speak up, I will speak up for them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2018 03:44PM by koriwhore.

Raped? Have you called the police?

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Raped? Have you called the police?


Yeah. And CPS.
They don't investigate, or give a shit, unless you have 1st hand knowledge, which I didn't in all 3 cases of child rape in the Mormon church that I know about, from hearing about it from the victims. MORmONS know how to circle the wagons to protect penisholding perps and silence kids with threats.

Only one of the cases resulted in a lawsuit, which the victims won, but were silence with NDAs.

I speak up for all of them.

Ya know what, Koriwhore, I apologize. You sound like a good soul.

Aww. Thanks. Thats the first time anybidy has said that to me. Lol

I call bullshit. You are so full of shit.

Bullshit, Aaron?

DH refused to attend TSCC because he'd arrested so many members who raped their own kids.

One POS mormon on our county caseload punished a foster boy by snipping his penis with scissors.



So, Aaron, you just call BULLSHIT to your little heart's content.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2018 06:38AM by kathleen.

(... so much for Dalai Lama's advice ... oh, well.)

I am kind to them. But we have established boundaries. No religion talk or church talk. Just how’s the weather, where are you from, how long til you’re done,what are you going to do when done.

Then I slip a bit of info as I say goodby. They rarely come by any more. I try to treat them like Elder Berry’s daughter needs. They are someone’s child.

Most people develop their personal compass in their 20’s. Being kind but not allowing the agenda sends messages.

You anger over everything is not healthy. Just another viewpoint not criticism.

I'm actually still in contact with some of the missionaries we've fed in recent years. Among those, most have contacted me since returning home to ask advice about college and career, and the only time religion was mentioned was when one of them asked me for a reading list of the "anti-Mormon" material I had read. (The quote marks were his.)

Post ended up in wrong place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2018 04:10PM by kathleen.

Last visit I got was years ago. I quizzed them on world religions. They knew almost nothing. I gently suggested that if they were in the missionary business, they needed to study up. For some reason I haven't seen them since. Guess I got marked as a poor prospect.

Please be nice to my daughter. She will totally understand not being interested. I raised her and I've had no interest for a decade and a half.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please be nice to my daughter. She will totally
> understand not being interested. I raised her and
> I've had no interest for a decade and a half.
People "being nice" to me instead of being honest with me is why I squandered 40yrs of my life in the abusive doomsday CULT of Joseph's Myth and raised a 6th generation of my family to be MORmONS before I dod the research on my own to follow the evidence to its logical conclusion, its a fraud.
Being nice is sometimes a real disservice to people who are being defrauded, deceived by lies and abused.
I am a huge fan of Ayan Hirsi Ali's approach to liberating victims of the abusive faith she inherited, "I cause CogDis, which will either drive them insane or drive them sane and I hope for the latter which is all I can do after all."

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Being nice is sometimes a real disservice to
> people who are being defrauded, deceived by lies
> and abused.

Being nice to someone being abused is always a good idea. You can let them know your truths without being abusive.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> koriwhore Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Being nice is sometimes a real disservice to
> > people who are being defrauded, deceived by
> lies
> > and abused.
>
> Being nice to someone being abused is always a
> good idea. You can let them know your truths
> without being abusive.
Being nice is over rated.
I much prefer honest truth, not lying by ommission, which is responsible for 7 generations of my family being victimized and countless friends by this abusive CULT.

Be a lone woman in the house, and they won't bother you. (They are not allowed to do so.)

RfM posters say everyone should be nice to missionaries because they think everyone's job is to try to sucker them in to leaving their church.

Or they think every exmo is shaking in their shoes over meeting missionaries and that they need to recover from that fear. This is ridiculous since no one is scared of silly teens who don't know up from down.

Another widespread reason RfMers want us to be nice to missionaries is that they used to serve missions and remember it was tough and think that the rest of us must somehow step in and support this effort.

Then there are the RfMers who have loved ones now serving missions and are worried that the public won't treat them well. No one wants their kids to be yelled at or worse even if they sometimes foolishly cause this treatment.

I think these are the reasons we read about here for treating missionaries nicely.

All of this negates the rights of a person in their home to determine who is allowed on their property or who is allowed to come inside their house for cold drinks and bathroom usage. That's clearly 100% up to the person who lives there, not up to strangers who wander to the door.

I was a missionary too and I wish I had met an ExMo who could calmly explain why Joseph's Myth was a fraud. It would have prevented me from getting trapped in a bad marriage to a manipulative Mormon and raising 4 kids in this abusive Doomsday CULT.
So now I mske sure to be thst guy for the one missionary who is actually interested in the truth, not just racking up stats.

"I was a missionary too and I wish I had met an ExMo who could calmly explain why Joseph's Myth was a fraud."

You might have more success if you actually did offer a calm explanation.

"So now I mske sure to be thst guy for the one missionary who is actually interested in the truth, not just racking up stats."

You are not that guy.

GregS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I was a missionary too and I wish I had met an
> ExMo who could calmly explain why Joseph's Myth
> was a fraud."
>
> You might have more success if you actually did
> offer a calm explanation.
>
> "So now I mske sure to be thst guy for the one
> missionary who is actually interested in the
> truth, not just racking up stats."
>
> You are not that guy.
Bullshit.

;)

Occasionally there have been missionaries living in, or visiting church members in my development. As long as they follow the "no proselytizing" rules of my community, I am as polite to them as I would be to any other community member. If they don't follow the rules then they are informed of the rules, as is the local bishop and their mission president. Fortunately there has never been an ongoing problem.

A number of board members are former missionaries, or parents of missionaries. They appreciated the kindness shown to them or their children during their missions, and want to pass it along.

IMO a direct attack against someone's firmly held belief is seldom successful. I think it's a much better idea to put a small chink in if you are so inclined, and to put your conversation with that person in terms of what you, yourself can or can not believe or tolerate.

If a Mormon asked me about my beliefs with regard to Mormonism, I would start with how I don't agree with the Mormon church's doctrines or policies, and perhaps add how I am not a restorationist and do not accept Joseph Smith as a prophet. That keeps it relatively civil while making clear that I am not a good prospect for conversion.

Most people aviod confrontations like the plague. Instead of challenging pushy Missionaries, they infantalize them and coddle them. Personally, having been a brainwashed over zealous Missionary, I empathize with them. I sure as hell wish I'd met somebody, anybody, willing to speak truth to me instead of lying by omission. Somebody who could intelligently employ the Socratic method with me to get me to actually think about the absurdity of Joseph's Myth. Once I found my faith indefensible, I left.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2018 10:59AM by koriwhore.

Nobody here is saying that we need to coddle the pushy missionaries, but to at least give missionaries the benefit of a doubt until they abuse our compassion.

Most of the missionaries I've met are just trying to run out their two years with as little heartache as possible. As one missionary explained to me, he was happy to have a place where he and his companion could just chill without trying to sell a product nobody wanted to buy.

The one missionary who really crossed the line with me would have been kicked out of my house if his more sensible companion hadn't already started to extract him from my presence.

I know I've read it here 100s of times. "Missionaries are just kids. They don't know any better and need to be treated with kindness and understanding."

I specifically mentioned "pushy missionaries", which is the term koriwhore had used. It may be that we have different definitions of what constitutes "pushy".

If missionaries knock on my door and ask to speak with me about the BoM, that's not pushy. If I say "No" and they persist, that's pushy and I have no problem shutting the door in their faces.

My wife invites missionaries over for dinner because she likes to feed them. If they ask to say a prayer or share a brief message (usually a short video) after dinner, that's not pushy. If I need to remind them that I'm not interested in a lengthy follow-up to the message, taking any lessons from them, or converting, that's pushy.

If they tell me that I am insincere in my efforts to learn the "truth" about Mormonism or am unwilling to open my heart to the Holy Ghost while they are guests in my home, that's pushy and they will be ejected.

I have seen the same posts you have where some have promoted the coddle idea, but not in the situations that I have described above as being pushy.

In my mind, missionaries are well within their bounds to ask for my time and attention; but if they persist once I have said "No", they have become pushy and I am no longer obligated to "coddle" them.

But we all have our own thresholds for what is considered pushy.

What you wrote doesn't say to "coddle."

Oh, I LOVE having the missionaries drop by. Unfortunately, my house has been blacklisted in the mission so I haven’t had any stop by for quite a while. Word got out two years ago that I had them over one night, grilled up some ribeyes, and then we watched the NBA Playoffs.

I used to bash with them before I realized that nothing I said was penetrating their skulls and in the process I was just reinforcing what they had been brainwashed with all of their lives…that Ex-Mormons are just crazy, bitter, maniacs who will rant on about anything LDS. So, I switched tactics. When they would drop by I would invite them in, if it was close to dinner time I would feed them, and I showed them some kindness. I kept things simple, told them about my personal history (40 years) in the church, and let them know that there was NO WAY I could EVER have a testimony of Joseph Smith.

I told them they were welcome to drop in at any time just to take a break from their missionary lives and be treated like real human beings. Also, that it would be wise for them not to try to re-convert me as I would then try to de-convert them…and I was better armed. I NEVER had a problem with them being “pushy” or failing to respect my boundaries. Instead we got to know each other on a personal level, talked about their experiences, families, plans for after their missions, etc. When it came time for them to leave there was no problem with me turning down their offer of a message and a prayer. When they walk away my goal is for them to be scratching their heads and saying, “Bro. Jaxson would be a GREAT Bishop”. LOL!!!

I believe that setting an example of not needing a god or religion in my life in order to be a good person had an impact on some of them as they kept coming back. Just planting the seed. It was most rewarding when, on their way out (going home from their mission), they would make a point to stop by one last time to thank me for my hospitality. That was always touching.

If I happen to be in the grocery store on a Monday and I spot them, I’ll wait for them to finish picking up their items and then I will pay for their groceries. I explain to them that I am not some answer to their prayers, that in fact I am far from it. Just a guy who knows they are young men struggling in a strange city, more than likely don’t wish to be there in the first place, and would welcome someone doing something nice for them. I tell them to take the money they saved on groceries and go out to a nice place to eat or do something fun.

I hope someday the missionaries will return to my door. In the past they always turned down my offer to use of my computer or cell phone. Rules. But it isn’t against the rules if I call their families with an update (with them standing there), so I would like to offer that to them. Hehehehehe. Then I’ll grill some burgers up for them and watch a baseball game.

The generous actions may not be about the missionaries. Sometimes people can't help being kind because that is who they are naturally or choose to be. (Or they attempt to be kind like I do even though I'm bad at it sometimes.)

Being nice is conceding nothing. It can be a powerful position when one knows the difference between being empathetic and being a doormat.

Let's say a stranger came to someone's door selling an obviously sleazy product like a vegetable peeler with a handle that falls off if anyone touches it. They are 19 yrs old and believe in their product. They are hot or cold and want to use the bathroom.

Does a resident owe them entry?

I don't think so. It's optional. It's also dangerous because this is a total stranger who shows no signs of actually being astute or honest.

I think if someone wants to let them in, that's their choice. They might be sorry.

If another person wants to send them away, they have that absolute right.

Their religion should not be the issue. All missionaries are not to be trusted. Some salespeople or scam artists might not actually be missionaries. Don't say no one impersonates missionaries because there are cases of this happening. There are also cases of real mormon missionaries who were not trustworthy and should not have been allowed in anyone's home.

I say that anyone who invites stranger selling junk into their home is taking a chance. I don't do it because that would be coddling someone who to me has not earned this level of trust.

I also don't owe mormons special treatment because they're in a church I used to attend as a child.

You have an odd sense of what coddling is.

To coddle someone is to be overprotective and to cater to their every whim; or simply spoiling them. It is an extreme.

What I, and others, have been condoning is common decency for young adults (yes, even kids), who we recognize are mostly coerced by family and church into a thankless right of passage.

They are not my responsibility, and I do not go out of my way to either hurt them or harm them. However, I have no problem being decent to them as long as they behave and respect that I have no interest in what they are supposed to be selling. And when I decide that I no longer tolerate their company, their visit to my home is over.

Decency goes out the window when they cross the line with me, as I've already noted earlier. Now, we all have different standards of judging where that line is, and I make more allowances than most here because I also consider my wife's wishes. But even allowing missionaries into my home, I have established boundaries that I will not tolerate being crossed.

None of that is coddling, but simply trying to be decent in any given moment.

It means allowing criminals to be allowed to continue their crimes unimpeded. It's does not mean catering to their every whim, but rather making excuses or overlooking their offenses and possible putting the needs of criminals ahead of the needs of their victims.

Coddling missionaries to me means putting their needs ahead of my own. That would include inviting them into my home even if I'm busy and would rather not bother with them. That's an unfair expectation.

Although I've only met one mormon missionary in my life, when I was carrying 2 small children in 90° heat (I was NOT nice). I will certainly be nice to them if I meet them again, firstly because they're young and tasked with selling a fraud, which can't be fun, but mainly because I hope to meet them subsequently on this board ;-)

In a weird way, they need a lot of people to be mean (aka hardened hearts) to perpetuate the idea that they are fighting evil. Missionaries seem to have a idea that they are suffering all kinds of attacks (aka Satan's team) trying to keep them from bringing people to the gospel.

Every nasty person they encounter confirms to them their bias that they are being persecuted. They think Jebus will see how hard they tried and what they had to endure.

It's all so stupid. They are brainwashed kids on a rite of passage coming of age adventure.
Sometimes being nice to stupid encourages more stupid.
Sometimes being mean to stupid encourages more stupid.
I'm generally one who avoids all the religious preachy types I see around. I'll be nice until they get in my space or face.