Is it common to take young scouts to a pond without life jackets in order to work on a swimming merit badge? That seems very risky to me. In this case, the scoutmaster saved a scout who was struggling in the water and ended up drowning himself. It just seems like a dangerous thing to be doing in the first place.

It is very sad.

I'm not sure that jumping on the no vests is the right tact. They were working on a swimming merit badge, something you don't do with vests on. Should they have chosen a different venue? Should they have had flotation devices and rescue equipment available?

Regardless, this is a horrible thing that will stick with those children for years. And it might have been just a terrible accident.

When my son was in scouts with tscc, the adults were so irresponsible with those boys IMO. My wife beating, child abuser ex was the scoutmaster for several years. When someone was injured, he and others figured out a way to turn it into a faith promoting story for sm, amid many smiles and nods. Gag me with a shovel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2018 11:10AM by Aquarius123.

I think it's just a different time now.

When I was in scouts, we jumped off cliffs, a dam, bridges, into water that probably wasn't deep enough. Sometimes our scoutmasters joined in, sometimes they just watched. They rarely said no.

We all ended up alright.

Some years ago, I was a TSCC scoutmaster for 10 years, but I was very unusual, being somewhat anal about safety, a keen desire that no boy ever get seriously injured, and also I as a little concerned about being sued. Safety was my top priority at all times - especially water activities. We had many water activities over the years, especially white water rafting. I ensured we followed the established safety rules, but then over did it on the safety. No Mormon boy scout was ever injured while I was the scoutmaster, and we had a large troop for a Mormon ward (i.e. around 40).

The inherent problem in a cult like TSCC is that adult scout leaders usually do not want to be there, they stupidly put a lot of faith in their Priesthood power to make up for lack of safety, they are poorly trained, and some should never be in charge of child. It's pure insanity what risks TSCC takes in the Boy Scout program.

On the surface, I don't know enough about the scenario you describe about the pond to give any informed critique. At non Mormon scout camps, boys must stay in waist deep water until they have proven to be able to swim 50 feet. If proven, they are allowed to swim in the deep end of the pool w/o life jackets, but w/ ample life guards watching, etc. They also stop every 30 minutes and empty the pool.

BSA has rules .....

"Response Personnel (Lifeguards)
Every swimming activity must be closely and continuously monitored by a trained rescue team on the alert for and ready to respond during emergencies. Professionally trained lifeguards satisfy this need when provided by a regulated facility or tour operator. When lifeguards are not provided by others, the adult supervisor must assign at least two rescue personnel, with additional numbers to maintain a ratio of one rescuer to every 10 participants. The supervisor must provide instruction and rescue equipment and assign areas of responsibility as outlined in Aquatics Supervision, No. 34346. The qualified supervisor, the designated response personnel, and the lookout work together as a safety team. An emergency action plan should be formulated and shared with participants as appropriate.
Lookout
The lookout continuously monitors the conduct of the swim, identifies any departures from Safe Swim Defense guidelines, alerts rescue personnel as needed, and monitors the weather and environment. The lookout should have a clear view of the entire area but be close enough for easy verbal communication. The lookout must have a sound understanding of Safe Swim Defense but is not required to perform rescues. The adult supervisor may serve simultaneously as the lookout but must assign the task to someone else if engaged in activities that preclude focused observation."

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss02/

In the back of my head is a memory of reading a story about how they were "moving away from BSA" and going to offer something of their own...

I'm just asking for an update, honest.

I made Eagle Scout as a technical Nevermo in an LDS Troop (and there were some "traumatic moments," seriously), and in general I'm a big fan of scouting. That said, if I told a story about what happened to me, I'd be "outing" myself on RFM, and at this point I still feel a need to maintain a degree of anonymity even though many here know who I am.

I'll echo what was said above about the need for strong safety measures, and I'm worried that LDS men who are "given a calling" are so wrapped up in everything else as far as membership demands go that their families suffer.

Time for an old RFM "oldie": Why do LDS wards change bishops every five years?

A: So all the children in the ward don't look alike...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2018 09:21PM by SL Cabbie.

They do until the end of next year.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/05/09/mormon-church-to-cut-ties-with-boy-scouts-and-start-its-own-gospel-driven-youth-program/
"The church announced Tuesday evening that it will sever ties with the organization, effective Dec. 31, 2019, according to a news release"

"The church encouraged its members to continue participating in the Scouts and the other church youth programs until Dec. 31, 2019."

Had another leader die this last month while scouting. This one while hiking in the desert heat of S Utah.(Coyote Gulch) His 15yr old son was with him and witnessed the drama. Not sure if it was heatstroke, heart attack, or something else, but very traumatic for those on the hike.
To the churches credit or to a demanding mother, his son that was on a mission returned for the funeral.

I attended 1 non LDS scout camp in the 70s.

It was at the shores of a large lake.

We had to swim along the dock while lifeguards walked along with long poles to pull us out and life preserves on rope if needed.

Once we showed we could swim we could enter different areas but lifeguards were always on duty with safety equipment.

Anytime we were on a boat we wore life jackets.

We were always taught reach, throw, row then go. We don't know the specifics but I would hope they had safety gear on hand. Sadly in my experience I doubt they did.

I went to one scout summer camp. It was a six-day excursion, up in the mountains, at Lee's Canyon. It was run by the BSA and there were probably more non-LDS troops than LDS troops.

Each troop had its own campsite within the larger camp, a circle of permanent tents around a central flagpole, where we were to fly our patrol flag. Only we didn't have a patrol flag...

I have no recollection of who, among the ward scout people, was up there with us. It's possible that we had no adult with us, a sentiment I express for two reasons:

1. There was a daily inspection, and your flag's position on the central flagpole was a reflection of how you did in the inspection. Pass with flying colors, and your flag could flutter from the top of the flagpole. Since we didn't have a flag, the issue was moot, but we were told on Wednesday, our third day there, that they'd have buried our flag a foot below ground level if we'd had one.

2. All the troops got to take an overnight hike on one of our days at the camp. Ours was scheduled for Friday night. We were supposed to hike out on Friday afternoon and come back Saturday morning and then we'd be going home that same afternoon. But four of us took off on Thursday afternoon. Just four kids, with me the youngest, 12, and oldest was probably 14. We had some extra food we grabbed at lunch, and that was it. Our plan was to hook up with the rest of the troop on Friday afternoon. So we ate okay Thursday night, but then had no breakfast or lunch, and we got completely and totally lost. As we were trying to find our way back to camp, we passed right by it. Had one of the guys not found an arrow lying on the ground, we would have kept going in whatever direction we were headed until rescuers maybe (or maybe not) found us. But I figured that we should head in the opposite direction as the arrow pointed, which was 90 degrees to our left. We did so and came upon the archery range, and the round back to camp, another 90 degrees left turn! The outcome of this was that I was so hungry that when all the cook could offer us was peanut butter on white bread, I accepted it, although I had always said that I hated peanut butter. I'd never tried it before because I thought it looked like spreading dog poop on bread. Turns out I like peanut butter!

No one was searching for us, no one asked us where we'd been, or why... I get that the camp leaders might not have known anything about what we were up to, so it is just another example of a ward with little to no attention given to the scouts, other than that they 'scout'.