No, this is not a troll, just an odd experience.

I was out home teaching/ministering, whatever you call it now, and I was surprised to see a member of our HT made that devil hand signal like the metal fans used in the middle of a conversation, completely out of the blue. I pretended not to notice it, but I was really surprised. This guy is an old man, been LDS for decades and is on stake leadership. It appeared to be intentional not accidental.

On another occasion, I noticed that a clerk in one of the neighboring wards had a ring with an obvious, but obscure occult symbol on it. Few people would know about it, but I've read up on this subject years ago so I recognized it.

I don't know what to make of all this. I'm not one of those Ed Dekker types. There have been claims that occultists - or shall we say non-mainline LDS occultists have gotten into LDS temples and even conducted their own ceremonies on the quiet. I know some have entered purely to witness the endowment, or because they believe it has some kind of power they can harness.

It's all very curious. Were my two experiences coincidental? If they were, it's odd. If not, it's a bit disturbing if they're into left hand path activities/black magic. I'm not saying black magic has any real power, but it does have a reputation for dubious practices.

Should read "HT family" first paragraph.

We make that sign every football season. Hook'em Horns!

I mean, there could be several reasons why he made a sign like that. Could be the "old guy" is a throw back from the big hair heavy metal music scene from the 70's, and was just trying to be cool/hip in conversation, you know like "rock on man." On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me either.

No, definitely not a seventies rocker. A very strait-laced cop back then, short hair etc.

I liked the guy, but he just did made that sign as I was talking to him. Very odd. (We're not into gridiron in this part of the world, so it wasn't that either.) I was actually taken aback by it a bit, but didn't show it. We were sitting down, and he made that sign in the middle of the conversation with no apparent tie to anything that was said.

I actually wondered if he was giving out some kind of signal to me or the other HT. Really weird.

Perhaps his middle finger and ring finger were itching and he was scratching them with his thumb. Seems just as likely.

I think the only way to find out is to ask. Why are you making that hand sign? What is that symbol on your ring? I've seen it used as an occult symbol, is that something you are into?

OPie could be legitimate, but I have my doubts.

Every time someone comes along who starts talking about Ed Decker and offering bizarre stories about Mormons, I get suspicious. That is especially the case when they use a brand new moniker yet write like they have been here before.

Because sometimes they have. Bendiendo did that, so too Mormons Are Hypocrites, an earlier drive-by named shapeshifter, and others--all of whom were the same poster.

Will graphic sexual accusations against Mormon and ex-Mormon women follow? I don't know, but accusations that Mormons may be practicing "black magic" seem as inflammatory as they are silly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2018 12:48PM by Lot's Wife.

(Standard disclaimer: This may not have to do with any of this, I admit.) In the Rome 2nd ward (Italy), late 90s) the elders had baptised a guy with numerous mental issues (which is about the only kind the missionaries baptise any more, it seems). He always would sit quietly in church and make certain signs with his hands, which he explained would ward off this, or prevent that, etc. Ward members tried to keep him away from blessing the sacrament, because that elicited a lot of this behavior. He would insist on kissing the sacrament cloth, for instance. They told him not to do it, which frustrated him. So after church, and before they cleared away the sacrament, we used to observe him inching along the wall toward the sacrament table, where he would quickly and discretely kiss the sacrament table cloth. Religion, particularly Mormonism, can really negatively affect your mind.

The sign of the horns isn't a devil worship sign- it was traditionally a sign to make to ward off bad luck and the Evil Eye. Ronnie James Dio, the man who popularized the horns when he sang for Black Sabbath, said his grandmother used to make that sign for that reason.

Of course, if he made the horns in front of your face while moving them back and forth, he was calling you a cuckold.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_of_the_horns

As for the occult symbol you mentioned, do you know the specific name of the symbol? Or did you just see some preacher condemn it while trying to get more of his flock's money?

(from that Wiki article)
"Males in Italy may also grab their testicles when confronted by bad luck..."

I grew up in the wrong country.

I'm in knclined to accept the OP's experiences as valid, Lot's Wife. As described and disclaimed, it sounds authentic. An oldster who's been around Mormonism for decades may have picked up folk Mormonism here and there, along with personal superstitions. Also, I've read posts here that various polygamous sub-groups participate in LDS wards, and even temples, so why not an idiosyncratic oldster?

A possibility: He may belong to a subsect of LDS that may be somewhat organized, or not. They adhere to the overall LDS/SLC church, but have their distinctive occultic beliefs and practices. The man flashed the sign as a recognition symbol, looking for a response from the OP to indicate affinity. Or, he wanted to ward off spiritual evil he sensed in the OP.

A technician has now declared my washing machine dead, so I have to go prepare the laundry room for last rites. Back later. :)

It could indeed be legitimate and I don't mind giving OPie the benefit of the doubt.

My concern is simply that we've seen this many times over the last couple of years: an OP about eccentric Mormon behavior, followed by a reference to Decker or the Tanners or Baha'i, and then later gilded with accusations of sexual deviance among Mormon and ex-Mormon women.

The poster has used the names Mormons Are Hypocrites, vigilant, Concerned Citizen 2.0, Bendiendo, Molly someone, XR Oliver or Xerol Oliver, and several others. So when I see a brand new poster present a prurient topic that mentions Decker and is written in the usual style, I get suspicious.

The truth is that there are few occult signs that have not been adopted by pop music groups and thence absorbed into the American mainstream to one degree or another. Any ward that has an emo teenager is inundated in such imagery. But it means nothing: the insecure Laurel does not really sacrifice chickens to Satan.

More generally, I don't really believe there is a satanic underground in Mormonism. That is scurrilous nonsense of the sort that Decker, and our resident provocateur, spouted.

It will be interesting to see where this thread goes. Apologies to all if my suspicions are wrong.




ETA: Our troll just posted on Shannon's thread under the name " Boyk K Facker." He'll be deleted soon, but he is around today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2018 05:28PM by Lot's Wife.

Considering Joseph Smith's and his family's interest in folk magic, I wouldn't be surprised that there are traces of the occult within the church. I believe that within any religion, there are those who are interested in unearthing the "hidden" teachings of their faith, and anybody looking into Smith's history would have a field day. Michael Quinn has written a book on Mormonism's occult origins.

I'm in the middle of reading Quinn's book at the moment. It's not an easy read because it is a serious academic work of history, but the research and the facts uncovered make it more than worth while.

The Smith family and their peers were VERY into magic and the occult. Mormonism was clearly built on an occult foundation.

Tom in Paris

There is a subset of members who call themselves "mystics." One of them would frequently get up in testimony meeting and talk about his out-of-body travels on the astral plane. It made a lot of members squirm in the pews when he did that.

Yeah, this is a trolled thread.

Has anyone ever heard any significant number of Mormons describe themselves as "mystics?" That isn't credible.

Stepping back, "Mystery" started the thread by writing about Ed Decker and the occult. I called BS because some of OPie's references and much of his/her writing style is consistent with our resident troll's.

As the thread dies a well-deserved death, "Vladder" appears and starts talking about "out-of-body travels" and the "astral plane." No one remembers those phrases? They show up time and again in our Baha'i missionary's various posts, along with paeans to his patron saint, X.R. Oliver , who learned to travel on "astral planes" when not busy patenting electrolysis and talking about theosophy at Berkeley.

Among the names this poster is likely to have used here, besides those mentioned above, are Aenon E. Moss; An Observer; Happy Hare Krisha; prosrusteanchurch; seeker of light; Forgetting Abigail; and Xerol [change the "e" to another "o"] Oliver. There were also Mandy Moore, who added to the mystic/Baha'i nonsense an account of hanging out at LDS seminary buildings to prey on high school students, and a few who launched into sexual allegations against Mormon women and tales of celestial incest. There is one other pseudonym that seems probable, but he sometimes adds substantively to RfM so I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But in any case the Ed Decker/Tanners/occult/black magic/satanism/"mystics"/"astral plane"/"out-of-body travels"/Baha'i/X.R. Oliver themes implicate the bridge dweller.

This is sad because Baha'i is a serious subject, one worthy of consideration. The rest is nonsense, though, as is this thread.



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2018 04:23AM by Lot's Wife.

Maybe the HT family guy just wanted you to call him!

Sorry, OP, but rings and hand signs and other stuff seems SANE compared to the weird and creepy rituals for dead people that take place in the Mormon temples!

Sorry to disappoint the OP--there aren't any occult followers of Satan here on RFM.

You mean to tell us that Atheists are not in league with satan ?

Atheists are not.

But I have my suspicions about you, Dave.

McDonkey said magic is bad (of Stan?) in MOMO DOC.