In talking with some other ExMormons last night the tale of the Elder and Sister screwing so they could get sent home came up. It is as old and oft repeated as the cat baptisms and Elders who thought they were the reincarnation of Jesus Smith.

But perhaps someone here knows if having sex (I was tempted several times towards the gay variety) with another missionary is grounds for dismissal from a mission?

I knew of several missionaries on my mission who used marijuana and didn't get sent home. I knew personally some missionaries who accepted an "investigator"'s duffle bag to hold while he was in jail and found it contained lots of cash which they stole from him. They didn't get sent home.

but he had it with someone like the BP's wife or someone like that. I can't remember who it was and my mother is no longer living, so I can't ask her.

My ex didn't fess up to what he did on his mission. He told me he didn't have sex with other guys on his mission, but then other things have come out that he did do, but then his ideas of what constitutes sex and what doesn't don't line up with mine. When he first told me he is gay, he told me he had never had a lover--but he meant he'd never lived with a boyfriend. AND sex to him and many others who were married to women--the only thing that meant sex to my ex was if he could have gotten the other person pregnant had they been a female. Anything up to that point including oral was not sex. So my ex just didn't get caught.

Every male in Morland tribe is in a suck-up program.

Can U imagine an MP explaining to his boss 'Why didn't U ex & send home Elder Y / Sister Z???'

No, I can't either!

I have no first-hand knowledge of a missionary being sent home for having sex.

Tons of second, third, fourth-hand stories...but one has to take those with huge grains of salt :)

I never saw a cat baptized either.

I can think of a number of hilarious outcomes to this endeavor.

I would recommend that anyone trying it wear HEAVY leather gloves that go at least up to the elbows.

I grant you that cats can be entirely celestial company, especially when they are purring in your lap. But Most of the cats I have known would have declined to be Mormons.

I knew two elders who were sent home; one who had sex with an investigator, one with a new convert (she was my only friend in the ward I attended).

The latter used me as an alibi with her husband and others for a significant period of time, I found out after they were caught. I don't know how it came to light but the elder was sent home, she was disfellowshipped, I was disillusioned mightily, she carried on being Mormon, I eventually left. Her missionary had a mental disability so I thought it was extra poor judgement on everybody's part. His group of comps and friends knew about it; several of them all used to sneak out at night and go on adventures I later found out, she provided the transportation, they facilitated her meeting with the elder. Fortunately for me, they left me out of it - I had no clue until they were caught (I don't know how it came to light).

I went with her to her Court of Luv. She said "they must have known what they were going to do before they interviewed me" as they had the D letter already prepared to hand to her after a humiliating "interview" in front of several men and a male clerk - they wouldn't let me go in with her. They could have just told her the outcome without going through the farce of interviewing her and making her state all the details. She was strong, tough, outspoken, yet she came out of the interview a wreck, all sweaty and blushing.

I was not happy with her behaviour, especially lying to her husband about being with me when she was really going out to meet the missionary. Her husband was a non-member and not someone you'd want to be angry with you - a small guy with a big temper. She did what she had to do to get reinstated. I'm not sure if she had to be re-baptized. I gradually lost touch with her and eventually I left the church (not because of this but it didn't help).

The missionaries I knew were surprised that I was so upset about it. They told me it is "very common" and they didn't think it was such a big deal.

To me it was a big deal because of the hypocrisy involved, if nothing else. When you're preaching to others and presenting an image I think you have a responsibility to try to measure up yourself to a basic standard of decency. Lying, cheating, sneaking, causing misery. Not my cup of tea.

I can understand that things happen. But lying/cheating on a sustained basis (like they did), especially while preaching the word - not cool. Preach by day, lie by night - uh uh. And leave me out of it. I can still see her husband's piercing eyes staring at me, like I was the kingpin or something. I was so innocent I didn't even imagine anybody would act this way, never mind helping them to sneak around.

I don't mean to be judgemental. I know things happen. I know that many missionaries go out only because of family and church expectations. They are in close proximity with each other. Youthful hormones, experimentation, etc. But the cheating part is hard to overlook. And dragging me into it. That is callous. A big step up from something spontaneous and even understandable happening. At the very least, the missionary's companion/s had to look the other way. Not once, but for at least weeks or even months. I never got all the details.

I don't know if this is a different category than what you're asking about, EB. As far as missionary/missionary, I never heard anything about that.

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know if this is a different category than
> what you're asking about, EB. As far as
> missionary/missionary, I never heard anything
> about that.

I knew about a sister when I was on my mission who was having sex with an investigator and was sent home and the area closed. It was close to one of my areas. But yeah, I was curious about any sex really but I never heard of mishies doing it AND getting sent home other than the 60s or 70s era missionaries in France where I believe and elder started a polygamist situation?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2018 02:18PM by Elder Berry.

I never personally met the Elder in question and personally don't know exactly what he did with all of the women, but it was inferred by the mission president he had sex with at least two investigators and a member girl. The mission president closed down the town and sent one elder home, sent four elders and two sisters to new areas and the last remaining elder was made my senior companion and we became a "district" of two missionaries and we were ordered to never tract in the area where Elder Romeo met his girlfriends. I was told I was "trusted" because I had a steady girlfriend back home who one of the APs knew. I have to confess this was a university town and we met several friendly young ladies who liked American accents, The Eagles, and exotic foreigners in bad fitting Mr. Mac polyester suits. While I was a missionary I knew of about a handful of missionaries who were sent home supposedly for fraternizing with the locals.

The daughter of member friends of mine had oral sex with a missionary while home from BYU Hawaii on summer break. The daughter was dismissed from school. The missionary was sent home but the family used the story of his knee needing surgery as the cover. The saddest part of it for me was that these were two adults, who yes, agreed to not have sex while being a missionary and a student, but even as adults, had several men discussing their fate and then the info shared with the college and more men discussing her and being told she couldn't come back to school. And of course, the info was shared with the ward of the missionary back in Utah. So three groups of men discussed and punished two adults for something as natural as sex. I have no idea about the missionary now, but the friends daughter left the church and is married and has two children. I tried to have the conversation with my friend as to how she thought it was appropriate that her daughters sex life was being discussed by men in three different states but since the church did it, she wasn't going to question it.

Grits Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I
> tried to have the conversation with my friend as
> to how she thought it was appropriate that her
> daughters sex life was being discussed by men in
> three different states but since the church did
> it, she wasn't going to question it.

Funny how when LDS leaders get caught it is nothing like this firestorm and gossip network among their faithful.

I had a companion who was sent home because he didn't confess before his mission and the girl he had sex with ratted him out.

If the MP found out about it, it would surprise me if s/he got to stay.

Nice to see you here.

Thanks and nice to see so many familiar posters.

TOL says hi to everyone, too.

Holy Crap - a visit from classic Brian The Christ! I thought you must be an imposter ...


:)

Evening, Brian!

BTC, where you been?

Our ward had a missionary from France who was sent home for banging one of the single moms in the ward. Hot blonde. He told the bishop he wasn’t going to let his mission interfere with his love life. At least this French guy had his priorities straight. He was sent home.

Did he also engage in French kissing?

All sorts of things go on with members of the church. It's a high pressure, conformist social network that many feel stuck in but really don't believe in. Many missionaries are pressured to serve or enticed to serve. I guess having sex on the mission just makes that miserable chore less of a chore. Just don't tell anyone. Lot's of commandment breaking goes on in the church. Nothing new.

Yes. Not the point of my post but yes. I agree with you.

while my trainer was in next room making out with her friend.

It just happened and I never told a soul.

Nor did she.

I was AP for last 8 months.

Deep down I knew it was all a crock but the embarrassment of going home made me able to paste a smile on and suffer through it.

I never lied about it as I was never asked a sexual question by the mission president.

Damn.
I was too ignorant on my mission, convinced that the MP would magically know I'd "sinned," to even try. Though there were both targets and opportunities...all of which I passed up.
Damn again.
:)

I had a companion who was a complete sociopath. The only reason he was out on a mission was he was promised a new car and he had a girlfriend dumb enough to marry him when he got home. I hated the guy. Well he got his share of tail on the mission. He was banging a young single mother while I played video games with her kid. I never ratted the guy out because our mission president would be all over me for letting it happen. Figured the guy would shoot himself in the foot. Nope. His charisma and salesmanship made him very popular with the members.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had a companion who was a complete sociopath.
> The only reason he was out on a mission was he was
> promised a new car and he had a girlfriend dumb
> enough to marry him when he got home. I hated the
> guy. Well he got his share of tail on the
> mission. He was banging a young single mother
> while I played video games with her kid. I never
> ratted the guy out because our mission president
> would be all over me for letting it happen.

I would have. If he was a fun companion I wouldn't have, but a tool?

He was the classic sociopath. He had a lot of charm and charisma in public. If you lived with the guy you saw the real him. We had a real jerk for a mission president. If I spilled the beans on my companion the mission president would want to know why I let it happen. He was the type would would blame both missionaries. Yeah if I felt the mission president wouldn't come after me I would have ratted my companion out. I was saving my hide.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was
> saving my hide.

I totally understand. I thought I was doing the same when I ratted out a companion who I loathed. He stole money he was supposed to "hold" for an investigator and dated many young women. I found him impossible to live with and just an all around jerk to deal with.

I knew of an elder who began receiving "hair cuts" from a 17 year old "Laurel" in the ward. Her parents thought it was innocent, but he would go over there, get his hair and a blow job for $5 bucks. The sex at 3am in their back yard was apparently a free-be. I know of an elder that began banging the ward missionary's wife. Course the 2 elders would frequent his home for meetings and what not's, lots of dinners, etc. The began "helping" her in the kitchen when he saw that the hub, was to busy. Somewhere in between washing the dishes and the casserole, the elder found an opening to move in on the guys wife. Stuff like that happens a lot. Stupid cult, that puts people in weird social situations.

I had sexual contact with my companion (repeatedly), confessed, and did not get sent home. My best explanation is that the MP chose to apply a very narrow definition of "sex" that we hadn't met (=no bj or penetration).

If the sex is consensual they get sent home. If the sex is non-consensual the victim gets paid off and the missionary stays.

I knew of one.

He was 19 and was caught by the non-member husband of the 36-year-old mother of three he was having sex with.

His companion was talking with her friend or sister in a different part of the house.

The companion was moved out of the area, the guilty party was sent home on the next available plane in disgrace.

I'm curious if the involved missionaries had sex Before they were called...

A sympathetic Bp. and/or SP may have given the OK hoping for 'repentance' - reform..

Childhood friend of mine was on his mission in California and got it on with a girl there, got sent home and exed. Then got righteous, rebaptized and I think, made bish....poor bastard....lol

Your comment about the repentant fornicator going on to become a bishop reminded me of an observation I made with a fellow apostate many years ago. Both of us had been straight-arrow, keep-the-commandments and strictly-follow-the-mission rules types of missionaries. We had both tried our very best to be worthy of inspiration, blessings and guidance to save souls and what have you and what not.

We both realized after two years of hard-core dedication and often being close enough to authority figures to come to the sad realization that we had been punked by the Church. The authority figures were obviously no more inspired than a typical business manager for a car dealership. Keeping the rules faithfully and "sacrificing" and fasting and praying...didn't make a difference in terms of getting effective results as missionaries. We saw some of the biggest screw-ups and rule breakers in the mission often get the best baptism stats (typically through dubious methods, but that's a story for another time).

Anyway, the observation that we had both independently made is that it was often the most faithful, dedicated missionaries who ended their missions having the most doubts, while the screw-ups could never say that they had tested the promises made by the Church/scriptures/leaders,etc. They basically knew that they had been screw-ups, so if they didn't see miracles, didn't get inspiration and so on...the blame was directed straight back at them and, funnily enough, it was often the screw-ups that went back home from their missions and got into leadership positions.

Ha! I was a screwup before my mission and went on the mission to unscrew myself. Saw the same thing you did on my mission. Felt like ordering Chivas on the rocks on the flight home. Looking back at it, I wish I did.

I thought the same thing - the mission would work a miracle. On my trip home I just took pleasure in watching the petting going on between an elder and the member he baptized and took home.

They didn't end of marrying and she returned shortly. And he died in a car accident a few years later.

So that guy only got to have enjoyable sex once in his life?
Shame. :)

I'm pretty sure that actual intercourse will almost always result in a missionary getting sent home.

There may be an odd case here and there where a mission president doesn't go along with the general policy (which, as I understood in the past, is to send the miscreant back to his/her home Stake for a "disciplinary council" process, which typically would result in dis-fellowship or excommunication.

I did personally know one missionary who had an obvious problem with a certain Master (one "Master Bayshun" if I recall correctly). He didn't get sent home for that. But a couple months after he left my area, he disappeared for a night without telling his companion and it turned out he had decided not to consult any more with Master Bayshun, but instead had decided to seek out someone named Forny Kayshun--a professional who was open for business late in the evening.

He got sent home very quickly. His close friends in the mission (missionaries who had been in his group at the MTC) did subsequently report the news that he had been dis-fellowshipped pursuant to disciplinary council proceedings in his home stake.

Given how much importance the church places on the clean-cut, wholesome image of its missionaries, it's very unlikely that they would not, as a matter of fairly strict policy, act quickly to send home missionaries who actually do the deed in very deed (as opposed to working up to it but not quite getting there).

I suppose there could be cases where an MP has a soft spot for the relevant missionary or the missionary is from a prominent family with some pull and influence and that could lead to the MP taking unusual steps to sweep things under the rug. But since there is usually at least one other person (the miscreant's companion) who knows or may suspect what happened, it wouldn't be particularly easy for an MP to pull off a successful rug-sweeping operation in many cases.

Does having sex with one’s hand count?

If the hand don't snitch and the owner of the hand don't confess...it becomes a falling tree in the forest kind of thing.

If the mission president didn't hear about it, did it happen? Only the hand knows for sure.

Excellent reasoning! So, if I’m understanding this correctly, the mission president’s hand did some wanking in the forest and no one was around to report him. Sounds like he followed the policy and procedure of Joseph Smith, Jun.

One hilarious thought that occurred to me some years after my mission -- after I had become much wiser to the ways of the world, including male biology -- was the realization that virtually every priesthood "authority" figure in Churchco (who has EVER been in a situation where they're hearing some poor schlub of a TBM confessing about masturbatory transgressions) in all likelihood had committed their own masturbatory transgressions not long (who knows? maybe even a matter of hours) before they found themselves sitting across from a confessing masturbator. It's gotta be a weird situation for the priesthood authority guy...unless the authority guy is a psychopath or sociopath.

During what would have been my mission time, I drank a lot of beer smoked weed, spanked it s lot and met my wife to be. All more enlightening than spending 2 years in some shithole



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2018 05:15PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

"All more enlightening than spending 2 years in some shithole"

Country?

Hahahaha! The USA?

That is hilarious, EB!

Or sex with the plumbing? I'm asking for a friend.

That's good, too.

I shoulda been reading this thread!

My high school and college friend was disfellowshipped and sent home from his mission for less than full-blown sex. He was in full fellowship again after a year, graduated BYU, married, had five kids, became a teacher, then left his family for a 16 year-old girl he taught, divorced, lost his credential, and spent most of his years driving a Keebler truck. He had another five kids and got re-baptized and became a member of his bishopric. Mormonism is weird, spawns weird people, too.

I blame the elves.

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My high school and college friend was
> disfellowshipped and sent home from his mission
> for less than full-blown sex. He was in full
> fellowship again after a year, graduated BYU,
> married, had five kids, became a teacher, then
> left his family for a 16 year-old girl he taught,
> divorced, lost his credential, and spent most of
> his years driving a Keebler truck. He had another
> five kids and got re-baptized and became a member
> of his bishopric. Mormonism is weird, spawns weird
> people, too.

you mean weird people like Gordon Hinckley ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xphnhNopWUo

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I knew
> personally some missionaries who accepted an
> "investigator"'s duffle bag to hold while he was
> in jail and found it contained lots of cash which
> they stole from him. They didn't get sent home.

They sound like trash to me. That's indefensible. And if they didn't get sent home, is because their supervisors were unaware? Or were they in on it too?

Depravity at its worst.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They sound like trash to me. That's indefensible.
> And if they didn't get sent home, is because their
> supervisors were unaware? Or were they in on it
> too?

I believe the pres knew because one of them was ending his mission shortly and used his take to stash in a bank and returned to the mission country (he returned to my mission for only a short stint) and party it up.

We met him one Sunday and then a couple of weeks later there was an all points alert to contact the president if we saw him. Someone outside our mission found him and the president flew there and took care of the situation. The grape vine said that he spilled the beans to the pres. The other two missionaries ended their missions honorably and one of my comps claimed to have been shown a bank receipt of one of them with lots of zeros after some numbers.

It was all the talk and people speculated on numbers from $60K American dollars to $150K.

I was companions with one of these guys and never asked him about it. I hated him and called the pres and asked for a transfer from him after he forced me to stay out till 4AM on the beach when he was with his girlfriend. I had toyed with the idea of just going to bed but didn't want to break the split up from him rule.


He ended his mission honorably. The other guy took a local home married her and returned to live there starting an Amyway business with I presume the proceeds he stole. He was from a family of 21 kids the last one being born while he was a missionary and 21 years old. I believe he was the eldest.

I am going to say that it is a fairly common occurrence, because I had met the missionary that my Mission President had to send home for fornication, and in one of his many lecture series audio tapes Truman Madsen, as the Mission President of the Boston Massachusetts mission, told how he strenuously prayed daily that he would never have to send a missionary home in shame and disgrace for having violated the law of chastity like many /most other Mission Presidents have to. Truman reported that his prayers and aspiration in that regard were successful and that he was very grateful for that.

So Madsen let mishies slide for having sex while he was MP, then. Got it.

That's how to get an answer to a prayer, answer it yourself!

:)

you have to put things back in a MORmON context, even as inconsistent as that is, especially because of that MORmON inconsistency

Sure MORmON founder Joseph Smith and early MORmON cohorts could be excused for debauchery

.....just as Madsen would make endless excuses for Smith and early MORmON leaders on that count, no such allowance was extended to mere missionaries of more recent times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw8EPzzniyw

"Dear Penthouse Forum: I thought this would never happen to me..."

One of my uncles was a Catholic priest who was assigned to a Catholic college for women. In the context of this topic, you can probably imagine how that worked out.

It became public shortly after I had emphatically told friends, family, and clergy, who were pushing for me to become a Catholic priest, that it just wasn't going to happen...no way, no how. "Besides, I'm still a virgin and hope not to be some day."

I may have been a little hasty turning down the priesthood.

I sexed so I wouldn't have to go on and off a missing a way from home.

M@t

I got a blow job from my girlfriend in the miss prez wife's car. I got sent home 5 days before the end of my mission for having sex. Was very happy to be going home.

Posted on here a few times on my mission. :)

Aug guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got a blow job from my girlfriend in the miss
> prez wife's car.

Was your girlfriend her daughter?

That's a mission [not (impossible)].