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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: March 16, 2015 10:21PM

Part of being a bully is the ability to turn any difference of
opinion to a perceived insult that you can take "action" for.

If you want to be a bully and someone disagrees with something
you've said, then you can say, "Are you calling me a liar . . .

Of course the nice part about this is that it allows you to
"exercise your [imagined] authority" in a way that feeds your
bully ego.

Mormons do this in a subtle way. In one recently posted story
on this board someone told the bishopric, who had called him in
to talk to him, that he disbelieved Mormonism. He was
challenged with, "so do you think we are all deluded?" I was
asked the same thing by my brother the Institute director, who
ignored the evidence I presented and asked, "do you think I'm
deluded?" He had previously quoted an apostle saying he KNEW
Jesus Christ lived and asked, "do you think he's deluded?"

A common experience of many exmos when discussing things with
TBs is that the TBM says things like, "I already know that and
it doesn't shake my faith one bit." As if that should matter
one whit as to the conclusion the evidence leads to.

In each case the TBM is ignoring the facts and trying to use

social pressure to "bully" the exmo into conformity. This is
the value of a "testimony." When you say to someone, "I know
XYZ." Then they either have to shut up, or tell you you are
deluded. By always bringing their personal views to the table
as evidence, Mormons are like the bully who asks, "are you
calling me a liar . . . Punk?"

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2015 10:22PM by baura.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: March 16, 2015 10:28PM

The first thing out of an ex-friend's mouth when I told her I'd left the Church was, "Oh, so I suppose you think I'm really stupid now?"

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: March 16, 2015 10:31PM

"No-not stupid. Just hiding from the truth".

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Posted by: Darren Steers ( )
Date: March 16, 2015 10:31PM

Great post. Very, very accurate.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: March 16, 2015 10:34PM

I wanted to say, "This isn't about you." LOL

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Posted by: The Dude ( )
Date: March 16, 2015 11:28PM

The bliss of ignorance is the lazy path to a happy life full of contrived truth.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 07:44AM

"I have a right to follow logic as I see it.

I don't try to dictate what anyone else thinks."

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Posted by: optional2(not logged in) ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 09:26AM

How about a comeback of: We each can decide what to think.
"I like full truth".

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 12:04PM

President Thomas S. Monson and his counselors gazed down from their official portrait on the dining room wall like morticians in some local newspaper advertisement offering “to serve you in your family’s time of loss and bereavement”.

Accompanying them were various plaques and other interior decorating doo-dads proclaiming that “Families Are Forever” and exhorting the virtues of “Faith” and “Prayer” and “Love”.

Bolstering the theme of “Families Are Forever” were pictures of families, pictures of weddings, pictures of babies, ancient pictures of ancestors, cartoon drawings of families, family genealogies done in needlepoint and a framed copy of “The Family – A Proclamation to the World”.

Ziller returned his attention to the laptop on the dining room table where the computer screen informed him that the machine was installing “1 of 101 updates”.

Mother was busy making lunch in the kitchen.

“Mother, when was the last time you turned on this computer?”

“Father bought that in Spain last year.”

Ziller made his way into the living room.

The coffee table offered several issues of Ensign Magazine and a Joseph Smith, Jr. biography.

Ziller vainly searched the magazine stand for an copy of National Geographic featuring half-clad Ubangee Princesses or an article on the sex lives of Hawaiian maidens in the 1800’s but settled instead for a Time Magazine piece on the elect-a-mormon-for-P.O.T.U.S. campaign.

Father shuffled in and took a seat in the overstuffed chair.

“How are you and the Trophy Wife getting along Ziller?”

“Pretty good, Dad. Nobody’s called the Police in a while.”

“Mother and I have been wondering how we could have a better relationship with her.”

“Well, Dad. If y’all gave her the Ex-Wife’s head on a platter, that would be a good start.”

Father grunted himself half-way up, leaned across the coffee table and handed Ziller a document.

“If we gave her this, do you think it would help?”

Ziller took a look at the document in his hand.

“The Family – A Proclamation to the World”.

“Are you crazy Dad? She doesn’t read. Certainly not stuff like this.

“Besides, this is a piece of crap. It doesn’t mean anything.

“It was written by a man.

“Not even by a man but by a group of men.

“They’re just men and everybody acts like this is some kind of piece of magical brilliant wisdom that if people would just read it, it would like make a light bulb go off in their heads and they would go like ‘Oh wow! So that’s what it is all about!’

“But it’s crap. They are false prophets.”

Ziller immediately regretted the rant.

“We’re not stupid, Ziller!” Mother called from the kitchen.

“I know y’all aren’t stupid, Mother. Ziller is just saying that they are false prophets. It’s not biblical.”

Father rose and shuffled toward the backdoor.

The computer reported “16 of 101 updates installed”.

Mother came and sat next to Ziller at the dining room table.

“Do you think God would leave people with no prophet, with no way to communicate with his church?”

“Yes Mother. Sometimes there was no prophet. Sometimes there was more than one. It’s not an office. It’s a calling and these guys are false prophets. They are just business men running a corporation. We have Jesus. We don’t need a prophet.”

“Ziller, the Church made us what we are. It made you who you are. Without the church, Father and I may not have made it. It is what let you grow up in a good home. Father’s priesthood keeps him a good man. I don’t have to worry about him looking at other women or drinking. It has been good for us.”

“You’re right, Mom. You’re right.”


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2015 12:06PM by ziller.

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Posted by: Alpiner ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 12:13PM

In fairness, there are people on this board that routinely call Mormons liars and stupid as though belief in Mormonism is the single axis on which integrity and intelligence can be measured.

I'm not an advocate of projecting beliefs or ideals onto others (whether it be coming from Mormons or ex-Mormons), so it's not right for any Mormon for us to assume that we think they're lying or deluded; by the same token, it might be worth asking if that's been their experience with other ex-Mormons.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 12:18PM

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 12:34PM

Alpiner Wrote:
> In fairness, there are people on this board that
> routinely call Mormons liars and stupid as though
> belief in Mormonism is the single axis on which
> integrity and intelligence can be measured.

In fairness, some of the *are* liars, and *are* stupid.
However, that determination should indeed be on an individual level, not a generalization :)

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Posted by: kolobian ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 12:25PM

Easiest way to counter the testimony is to press for a detailed account of the experience. They never share, saying it's too sacred. I counter with, "I don't think it's too sacred; I think that you know that the experience itself is not sufficient to bridge the gap between belief and knowledge. That's why you won't share."

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Posted by: midwestanon ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 12:31PM

Fair point, Alpiner. It always irritates me when people do the stupid "MORmON" thing, as though all Mormons are idiots. I'll concede that most converts are more likely to be vulnerable, emotionally fragile people with little more than a high school education, but it doesn't make them stupid. It just makes them predisposed to believe in the kind of junk the morg peddles.

People who are BIC are a whole different story. I've known a handful of Mormons who I consider some of the smartest people I've ever known, and through a careful strategy of self-delusion and cognitive dissonance, manage to separate their religious beliefs from what they know about science and history, and everything that disproves what the church purports to be true.

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Posted by: Chump ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 01:11PM

I've told TBM's that I think they're deluded. I explain that i don't mean it in a derogatory way.

Delusion - an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.

It is generally accepted, based on sound evidence, that the BoM is a work of fiction. To know the facts and still believe otherwise is to be deluded. To intentionally ignore the facts, knowing that the book and your testimony can't stand up to scrutiny may be something other than delusion...but is also a symptom of the mental disorder called "Mormonism".

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 02:03PM

That's actually helpful.

I'd like to see more on bullying techniques, just like we often discuss logic and critical thinking.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: March 17, 2015 02:24PM

Here's an ongoing dustup between "DiligentDave" and your humble transportation provider and associate board historian...

Ignore the political implications; it's the history I'm focused on...

Bring your stainless steel jockstraps to these affairs, folks, and try to keep your punches above the belt, okay?

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: March 18, 2015 12:40PM

Bullies (also) think they know it all. It is a way of making up for other insecurities and fears.

SL Cabbie - referring to the news link:

Takers - and small minded people (and politicians), corporations and religious institutions - not (for)givers.

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