Okay, imagine an average white-haired Mormon woman. What does she think? What are her interests? What does she do for fun? Now, with that image in your mind, let me tell you about the 75-to-85 year old woman I encountered today.

I had pulled into a parking space at the market and noticed a white-haired woman in the car next to mine. She had her stereo turned up nice and loud and I recognized the last bit of "Born to Run" playing. When the song ended she turned off the car and got out. She gave me a smile and a snappy nod. I returned her smile and nod and thought, "Yeah, tramps like us, baby!"

So, would the average elderly Mormon woman ever rock out?

If quietly tapping your no-skin-showing foot to "Jesus wants me for a sunbeam" counts as "rocking out," sure.

Otherwise...no. :)

Wow. I have to admit to singing that song in a Baptist Sunday school in a chapel on Horsell Common in the UK in 1969. I rather liked it then because I enjoyed singing. I don't think I cared much about the words because, apart from that first line, I can't remember any of them.

I suspect this means they were empty.

Tom in Paris

Soft Machine Wrote:
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> I suspect this means they were empty.

You're right.

The song serves the same purpose as a rowing song for Roman galley slaves...the words are meaningless, the point is for you to stay in sync with the group.

Soft Machine Wrote:
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> Wow. I have to admit to singing that song in a
> Baptist Sunday school in a chapel on Horsell
> Common in the UK in 1969. I rather liked it then
> because I enjoyed singing. I don't think I cared
> much about the words because, apart from that
> first line, I can't remember any of them.


Better check your memory even on that first line, or the year, because Born to Run wasn't released until 1975! ;)

Unless Tom was talking about "Jesus wants me for a Sunbeam"... notice from the identation that he was responding to Hie's post- which was about Jesus wants me for a Sunbeam.

My elderly mother was not a true believer but many of her friends were. Those ladies would only seek entertainment (??)that was available at Deseret Book in Utah.

One of my older cousins, now widow and a newly returned missionary from SLC (senior mission assignment,) would listen to that kind of music and is a cool granny & great granny. You wouldn't know she was LDS if she didn't come out and tell you so.

Non=mormon women might be less so.

Music? I think we all have a right to enjoy whatever kind of music appeals to us. Old ladies have earned a right to not be judged harshly for personal music preference.

She was alone in the car. Would she have "rocked out", had her husband been in the car with her?

When I was married, I was loving life--when my husband was not home. The kids and I could do anything we wanted, and there was a lot of singing and dancing. Mormon women need to get out from under their husband's thumb, and blow off steam. A lot of them run marathons. This is popular, I think, because marathons are NOT FUN, so it is allowed. There's something righteous about getting up at 5:00 am to run every morning. Husbands like a fit wife, for an arm piece. My Mormon husband allowed me to dance at the YMCA, for two hours. It was OK, because the kids were in school and pre-school, and the dancing was free, because I taught one of the classes, and we named it "aerobics class". It was actually jazz dancing. I didn't let on how much I loved it.

It was the same story with hiking. We were conquering tough mountains, taking our pulse, getting scraped up. A bunch of us Mormon women would take off and go hiking, and would tell our husbands we were going to "get our heart-rate up" or "work off a few extra pounds." The bishop found out how much fun we were having, and forbade his wife to go with us. A few months later, she had to spend time in the psychiatric ward of University Hospital.

You betcha Mormon women--of all ages--rock out! Otherwise, they would go crazy! We do it when the priesthood isn't watching, so you men will never know....

A lot of generalizing and bigotry.

I know guys who can't get their wives to hike or do activities. Their wives would rather play on their phones or read books.

And my wife accuses me of never wanting to have fun.

Perhaps you should reread the post to which you are replying. You missed the part about why the women would rather have adventures on their own.

Hint: it may have something to do with "bigotry!"

I was just recounting some memories.

I was once in a career I hated and would sometimes stop by the house and find my wife having crafting parties with the ward sisters.

So, yes, I supposed I did resent the fact I had to be the sole breadwinner, while she had fun.

So I implemented the feminist idea that women would rather be working and earning money. Pressured her to get a job, which she hated.

So, yeah, perhaps there is more to your stories. Maybe the guys are stressed out and overworked.

We need more of that equality I keep hearing about.

I actually agree with a lot of that.

There is no question that traditional families, in which the man bears the career burden--and particularly in LDS families in which even more temporal demands are incumbent on him--neither the man nor the woman is fulfilled.

Strictly defined gender roles are problematic in many different ways, including the ones to which you allude.

Free Man Wrote:
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> So I implemented the feminist idea that women
> would rather be working and earning money.
> Pressured her to get a job, which she hated.

That's not a "feminist idea."

The idea (and it's not strictly "feminist," either) is that women can and should be able to choose to work if they want/need to, or not. In cooperation with their partners/husbands. Based on both partners discussing what's best for the pair/family, not on "tradtional roles."

And pressuring your wife to get a job she hates just because you felt she was having too much fun and you weren't...just, wow. So sad.

There is surely a lot of stuff going on in that relationship. . .

The only thing going on- and this based on reading dozens of Free Mans posts- is that he hates women, especially his wife, and thinks they trap men and then never have sex with them once they marry.

These are all roughly verbatim ideas based on his posts. The idea that he’s a horribly misogynst may be a bit of editorializing- accurate though.

Any concession to his ideas about women and there roles will result in him ranting about what s rough go he’s had as a white (I assume) man.

Which is laughable for about a hundred reasons.

I’m just saying this in case you don’t know. One time he linked to a series of blog posts by women who had lost interest in sex post marriage and claimed ‘all women were like that’.

I mean come on.

Oh, I have noticed the pattern. There's no doubt about that.

Excuse me, I was working at the time. We hiked on Saturdays, and summer evenings. The dancing was early in the morning, and I worked partly at the office, and partly at home. Sheesh!

These last few posts illustrate why we women don't let the men know how much fun we're having.

I have to admit, that all women don't hike and ski and play tennis, but they find other things "fun". I love to "read books and play on the phone! Some women would just like to sit and stare at the scenery, or soak in a hot bathtub, after a hard day.

I was a SAHM for a few years, and playing with my babies and toddlers was the most fun, ever! It was worth the long hours (24/7), the pregnancy sickness, and the anxiety when they were sick. I remember being tired most of the time, but I still had interesting volunteer work at the schools, good talks with friends, a few clandestine meetings for frozen yogurt, and good times with women friends and their kids at the beach. Even the worst day as a SAHM was better than the average day at a mundane job, IMO. (Though, it was more exhausting.)

But don't tell the Mormon men that.

When I wanted to work, it was only when the kids were at school. For me, working was better than being abused by my husband, and the less I was around him, the less I was abused. He was resentful of my career, because I was lucky, and I enjoyed it too much.

If an A-hole wants to criticize his wife, he will criticize her, no matter what she does.

the inactive husband of a sister in my ward wanted her to get a job too and she did. she also got a boyfriend and got rid of the husband.

>>So I implemented the feminist idea that women would rather be working and earning money.

It's also a "feminist idea" that with women working, men need to take on half of the housework, laundry, child care, cooking, etc. So, did you?

I think the answer is implicit in his tone of voice when speaking of women.

Jaggar is 75, Mccartney is 76

There are lots of old rockers.

I'm 74 and I am still twisting the night away!

Did you know that the final 3/4s of the overture to Handel's Messiah is so upbeat that you can do a mean, mean twist to it?

Truth!!!

74? Seriously?

I would have put you at a sprightly 65.

Saucie is beginning to feel my age and I like it!

But he plays golf like a 65 year-old...! :)

I would expect no less!

Earlier today I was on U-Tube watching Guns-N-Roses November Rain. I love that song. I wonder what my relatives would say? They wouldn't be caught dead here, but they would know me. Oh, I'm 71.

This made me wonder if Mormons keep up at all with musical trends. Or do most stay stuck?

A 75 year old might rock out if no one is looking.

Any older than that and they are more likely to "Doo-Wop" out if they ever moved on past Benny Goodman.

My mother in her nineties has little use for anything that doesn't smack of Lawrence Welk or Mitch Miller. Still, she doesn't listen to music at all. A hymn at church does the trick for her needs in that department.

I listen to it all. I dance like an old fool to new artists all the time when I'm left at work alone. Hope no one ever checks the security cameras. My TBM family wouldn't even have a clue who they were if I mentioned my favorite songs of the moment.

Is it wrong to judge someone by how diverse their life is? How open to the new? Even if it's wrong to judge, which we do even if it's wrong to judge people say, but we do it anyway . . . just because.

Haha. That was scary. My parents would have eaten it up.

had a personal vibrator she named the "Liahona" because it could always get her there.

Was it of curious workmanship? Like a work man on a ship?
https://pxhere.com/en/photo/710098

My elderly German neighbor has a penchant for vintage Van Halen!

Seriously, is it fair to write someone off merely because they have different music preference from many younger people?

Music is very personal. I tend to like classical music and show tunes. I admit it. But I also like jazz and other kinds of music as well. If that's all you knew about me, could you fairly judge my worth as a human being? I don't think so.

When I taught school, I enjoyed children's songs and ditties because teaching them to kiddies inspired their enthusiasm. I still hum those little tunes during different holiday times. Does that mean I'm somehow defective? Anyone who assumes that is not someone I'd want to associate with.

I think everyone of every age deserves to enjoy any kind of music that suits them. Life is too short to listen to music because some others like it.

My tbm parents were musically lame. Riding in the car meant listening to FM 100 and the sanitized lame pop music of the 70's. Mom had a few vinyl selections from her youth, like Nat King Cole and the such, but she never added anything while she was fulfilling her duty as a faithful servant, such a pity. Dad had NO musical interests whatsoever, but would hum along out of key with that goddam FM 100 torture. Thank God I had an older brother who paved the way for his two younger brothers with the gift of turning us on to classic prog-rock and setting the president of none of us going on missions.

But you guys knew that :P I like damn near everything. Classical, opera (except German), swing, jazz, gospel (right now I am obsessed with Grandma's Hands), show tunes, classic rock, current rock (other current obsession is Shame by Elle King). Zydeco, calypso, rap, headbanger, reggae and some country I can only take in small doses as they can be so loud. I think it is fantastic that some of the old jazz classics are being brought back by Diana Krall (check out her Peel me a Grape). She just released an album with Tony Bennett (on Christmas list). Choked up when they played Lights Thursday during The Battle of the Bay. The last Battle of the Bay :(. What a wonderful game for a new QB to win. There is a song from Iran about Romeo and Juliet I have been trying to find for 30 years. Love the singing in Raise the Red Lantern - a must watch if you can find it. And yeah, I will even admit that I loves me some Bollywood! Bride and Prejudice is my all-time favorite. No Life Without Wife cracks me up every time.

I credit the Sinner women in my life for my eclectic tastes not only in music but in literature. They would listen to and read everything they could get their hands on. Come to think of it, the same is true for people. The Saints, not so much. Church stuff, a bit of classical and, sigh, The Osmonds. Dear Lord, deliver me from the nonstop Osmond records. No thank you, I do not care for The Osmonds. I do not CARE if they are mormon. No Grandma, I do NOT want another Osmond record for Christmas. May I please have an Elton John? Sigh, yes, I do know he is "that way" but I love his music. Never did get an Elton John till I bought it myself. I get great pleasure knowing he has done Disney movies and is now Sir.

I love a lot of music but Nat King Cole will always be my number one. He truly IS unforgettable!

U found myself playing the kinds of CDs that I like - tenors, mainly - Andrea Boccelli and Josh Groban. No Andrea's son Matteo is performing with him, and Matteo doesn't yet have the force of his father's singing, but I think the kid has a bright future.

I enjoy tenors. They make my ears happy. My DH doesn't like music on while driving, but I do. While DH was gone on his weeklong trip, I had the CD player cranked up whenever I drove. Made me feel at least 20 years younger. And singing along in Italian is FUN!

Both of these guys sing in Italian, Spanish, French and sometimes English. I enjoy all of them. Some drivers seem to regard an old lady s8inging along with Italian singers as a little bizarre, but I regard that as THEIR problem.

This stopped when DH came home. He doesn't like music playing when he is driving.

I'm also one who likes pretty much everything when it comes to music, whether it's new bands only heard on college radio to jazz, classical, show tunes, or metal.

I think one reason I didn't last long in Mormonism was that I like all kinds of music, plus I'm still the type who reads several books at once. It drove my TBM ex-husband crazy that there were times when I would rather read than watch TV, and he said my family had "too many" books. One thing I got into after leaving Mormonism is home brewing, as to me, it's fun to brew things Mormons can't have such as beer and mead to share with my friends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2018 12:04PM by doyle18.

I am glad they are ex! Too many books would be grounds alone. I am happy that so many are digital these days or I would not be able to fit in my house. One of our kids brought home someone who was shocked that we read a book more than once. I kid you not. They just couldn't understand why anyone would do such a thing. That was pretty much the end of that relationship.