Note: This article is from 2013.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2528650/The-super-hoarders-Utah-Inside-huge-warehouses-used-feed-states-insatiable-desire-disaster-preparation.html

Towering grain silos overlook the main highway in Salt Lake City at the Mormon church's Welfare Square. At grocery stores, there's a whole section with large plastic tubs with labels that read, "Deluxe survivor 700." Radio ads hawk long-term supplies of food with 25-year shelf lives.

And houses are equipped with special shelving for cans of beans, rice and wheat.

Storing away enough food and water in case of disaster, job loss or something worse is not just part of the fundamental teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's an idea that is increasingly catching on nationwide.

Church leaders gave everyone lists of what to bring, and then stockpiled food at storehouses as towns were settled.

By the mid-1900s, church leaders worried about nuclear war were using more apocalyptic rhetoric in encouraging food storage. During the Cold War, church members were encouraged to have a two-year supply, Bowman said.

In the last two decades, the focus on food storage has shifted back to practicality.

‘A lot of times we are thinking in terms of food storage that we are preparing for this major calamity or major disaster or for Armageddon,’ said Rick Foster, manager of North America Humanitarian Services with the LDS church. ‘It's not about that.

‘It's about helping all of us individually to get through these bumps that occur in our lives,’ he said.

And my extended family keeps throwing away thousands of dollars worth of weevil infested wheat, bulging cans of who knows what, nasty water that was stored in old milk jugs and on and on. The money that my parents spent on filling their basement with that stuff could have paid for the tuition of a few grandkids.

What kind of preparedness is this for?

If you had the kind of common disasters we see (fire, flood, tornado), the food supply would probably be destroyed.

It seems that the kind of emergency they are preparing for is some kind of attach where they can be secure in their home.

It seems more like an exercise to pretend they are prepared and to keep people slight paranoid.

Since it's coming from UT, I would say earthquake.

I can see value in an emergency kit, and even some storage to get you thru a short period of time.

In my area of the country, we get hit by blizzards and hurricanes. In the past several years, there are areas that are without power for 2 weeks at a time. So some preparedness is worth the mindfulness

It all depends on the individual. Many do it for prudent reasons and that's all. Others are 100% convinced that Donald Trump will lead them into battle against the heathen hordes at Armageddon. Most Mormons are somewhere in the middle. They still have maintain that we are in the last days, but they don't worry about it a lot.

As for the church leadership, IMO it is simply a matter of corporate inertia. They do it because that's the way it's always been done. Like all those conference talks about avoiding debt. It's just part of Mormonism.

It is a revenue stream for the cult. They make it easy to buy from them just for your food storage needs.

Does anyone know if Utah welfare farms pay property taxes? I wouldn't put it past LDS Inc to have started this program so they could declare that the real estate of the welfare farms was part of a church program and therefore tax exempt.

A two year supply is just silly. In disasters that actually happen (fire, flood, earthquake, tornado) either the disaster is short lived if your house survives, or your house is destroyed, and the food storage is worth bupkis.

In most disasters you escape with what you can throw in your car in 15 minutes or less. What you really need are important documents, medications, some cash and an active credit card. A coat might be helpful in winter.

For the short term (a few days) all you really need is something to drink. There are enough odds and ends around the house to keep body and soul together for a few days. In fact, if you are in normal health, you can survive several weeks with no food at all, though you will need water. You'll be tired, weak and cranky, but you'll likely be alive. And peanut butter, pasta and canned green beans can be a meal or two or three.

loosely--I'm related to her and can't stand him). You should see their food storage. I have to give HER credit as it is really organized and she rotates it all the time.

THE PROBLEM IS, they have moved SO MANY TIMES, I tend to wonder how much it costs them to move that stack of food.

We did and still do "food storage".

Not wheat and not items we do not use.

Buy on sale and make sure it is stuff we actually eat. Buy some extra clothing items at thrift stores and closeouts so we have a few extra items.

Times got lean - we were able to take advantage of the food storage and not have to spend money. When they got better we stocked up again. All items we use - AND - some items we know would barter well in a disaster - even though we don't use them.

Make sure we rotate the food so it does not go way out of date.

It is simple to have a few weeks food storage in a small place. Longer time means a bigger storage place. Two years? or even one year seems to be overkill and maybe even paranoia.

All those with the rotting wheat - stupidity happens.

I have read that it got changed to 90 days.

...OK. Today...now...world potato crop losses have been estimated at 20-30%. This is huge. Mainly due to extreme weather events (flooding, hail, drought). The difference going forward is that no accurate weather forecasting can be taken for granted. Farmer's Almanac, and the otherwise good predictors of seasonal conditions, are now off the table. Typical weather patterns are up for grabs. Not because of human caused "global warming", but because of the Sun's solar cycles. The Earth's magnetosphere, and the Sun's solar irradiation are shifting both the Jetstream and Gulfstream systems which effect oceanic and atmospheric temperatures, as well as seasonal irregularities. Crop losses around the world are now being seen as a result of the events. Research Solar cycles 24-25 and the Greenland ice sheet data. They found a WWII P38 fighter plane from WWII buried at around 300ft. in the icepack. If the Greenland icepack was melting, how could this occur? I found a webpage from the RU which is an aggregate collector of worldwide insurance-based crop losses due to these irregular weather patterns, but you will have to navigate it for yourself. Yes, there is a good reason to stockpile some food products due to price increases and scarcity....and good luck going forward. I hope it doesn't manifest in some of the weather pattern models being shown.......even by NASA.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/a22575917/wwii-p-38-discovered-under-300-feet-of-ice-in-greenland/

http://agroinsurance.com/ru/

The sun's solar cycles?

The last time we went through this, several months ago, the poster provided citations. If actually read, however, the sources said that the solar cycles had minimal influence relative to man-made global warming.

Do you have better evidence to back your assertion this time, meaning credible experts who believe solar activity is more important than human activity?

"If the Greenland icepack was melting, how could this occur?"

Exactly, the doomsday all over the establishment and academia is from scientists who have to come up with this stuff so that they can get the government contracts and get their salaries. Imagine what would happen if Climatologists told the public that the weather was normal? they'd be out of a job! All those tax dollars would be funneled in other directions like rebuilding infrastructure, or heaven forbid, fracking up more fossil fuels for all the cars aren't going away anytime soon.

But as for Utah's culture of hoarding food, and hoarding guns, It stems from the self reliance culture of being prepared in emergencies that happen quite often. And the thought that the feds don't always have the best interest of Utahn's in mind when they legislate from Washington.

anono this week Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "If the Greenland icepack was melting, how could
> this occur?"

I don't know what is happening in Greenland, but ice packs are melting in the Arctic and the Antarctic. It is easy to learn that, and how it is occurring, if you are willing to look up articles and read.



-------------------
> Exactly, the doomsday all over the establishment
> and academia is from scientists who have to come
> up with this stuff so that they can get the
> government contracts and get their salaries.
> Imagine what would happen if Climatologists told
> the public that the weather was normal? they'd be
> out of a job!

Excellent analysis, assuming you can demonstrate through expert analysis that global warming is not occurring. But of course you cannot.



-------------------
> But as for Utah's culture of hoarding food, and
> hoarding guns, It stems from the self reliance
> culture of being prepared in emergencies that
> happen quite often.

Really? How often were there two-year crises in the 100 or so years in which Mormons were ordered to have two-year stores?

How many one-year crises happened during the few decades that Mormons were supposed to have one-year stores?

And how many three-month stores have been needed to deal with three-month crises since that change?

Are the Mormons in Paradise, CA benefiting from their hoards?




----------------------
> And the thought that the feds
> don't always have the best interest of Utahn's in
> mind when they legislate from Washington.

It is also possible, regarding climate change, that Utahns generally don't know what is in their interests. The Feds' job is to protect national interests and sometimes, believe it or not, that interest is indeed national--whether or not the rubes in, say, Arkansas understand that.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

...there's hard science, which uses historical data and records from the Sun's previous cycles, and then, of course, the politically-driven sciences which provide a pre-determined outcome to advance a certain narrative. It's not that there isn't climate change. It is the shifting of traditional weather patterns, and the inability to accurately forecast seasonal trends. Most minimums accompany extremes in weather. This is why you are seeing snow in the Sahara, severe flooding, droughts, high winds, violent tornadoes, all as a result of the shifting jetstream patterns. A kind of clash between Earth's magnetic field, and the Suns fields. This can cause crop failures and food price spikes. Many of these prior minimums also coincide with societal collapses due to pestilence, disease, and the inability to feed it's population. But it's not my intention to convince anyone of anything; information is available to those who research it. Just like information about the Church was available to those who researched that topic. The ironic part of this is, whether we agree, disagree, or are indifferent, we will all be living through this; probably sooner rather that later.

But, I will leave you this generic, basic primer.

https://abruptearthchanges.com/2018/01/14/climate-change-grand-solar-minimum-and-cosmic-rays/

And I would encourage anybody who reads that to read the other stuff on that site. A lot of rightwing conspiracy stuff.


And consider that followers of Sacha Dobler include folks like this:

https://d.tube/#!/v/iceagefarmer/ydcemuos

https://www.socialzon.me/videos/watch/_bjPeInIlr0

https://www.spiritualselfhelp.org/blog/the-earthquakes-are-picking-up

[l] is correct. Your reference does not provide the expert analysis I requested, nor is it the "basic primer" you claim.

I googled Sacha Dobler and found nothing but the website you linked us to and a few Youtube videos. There is very little information about him available. Even his website neglects to provide educational background or evidence of any expertise. His book was self-published and has not been reviewed by anyone either on Amazon or by academic researchers. He does, however, ask for donations to help him write and publish his next page-turner.

I renew my request. If someone wants us to believe, contrary to the consensus of scientists and even the Trump Administration, that human-induced global warming is a hoax, please provide us with credible evidence to that effect.

...OK, for the sake of this thread, we will just call this "settled science" as some have referred to it. If you couldn't find anything in the diverse links I provided that made any sense, or stimulated your interest in reviewing alternative weather scenarios, I guess you best stick with what works for you. It's impossible to herd all the cats, no matter how frustrating it is. Some will slip through the cracks and leave the barn; you just have to accept that and move on.

Well, I Will grant your notion that your links are "diverse;" I would even say random or irrelevant.

Your "primer" is, again, the product of a loon. So it can be discarded.

Your other two links are as follows.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/a22575917/wwii-p-38-discovered-under-300-feet-of-ice-in-greenland/

That is the story of some WWII aircraft found under 300 feet of ice. The article doesn't explain why that disproves the global warming hypothesis; it says nothing of solar cycles or sunspots. In fact, it says nothing about temperature change.


http://agroinsurance.com/ru/

This article is in Russian. Since I don't read Russian, it provides me with no information. Do you have a translation? Does the photo of sheep mean that solar cycles cause global warming?

Sorry, CC2, but if you want to persuade of your theory you'll need to provide credible evidence. Not photos of sheep or stories about WWII airplanes, not the musings of a self-published Youtuber.

A: I'm not persuading, or promoting anyone's theory. It has been out there for general scrutiny by others; research or dismiss, makes no matter to me.
B: The P-38 story is basic physics. Either the engine heat and/or weight on the snowpack, by the plane, caused it to sink 300ft. or, subsequent snow and ice buried it.
C. The Russian webpage has an English translation button...just click on it. It has many links and dropdown selections.
D: The prior post by [I],dismissed the work of "Ice Age Farmer" out of hand because he was linked by "loon" Sacha Dobler as "right wing conspiracy stuff". So only peer-reviewed studies warrant investigation? A self-publisher verboten? Not IPCC approved? Non-academic? Not an employee of NOAA or NASA? From an investigators perspective, that is not good practice; all leads would be examined.
E: I only entered this thread because the idea of food storage was discussed, and made mention of worldwide crop losses due to climactic conditions, and think it might make some sense going forward.
F: And since "Ice Age Farmer" was mentioned, I will post his aggregate of world-wide crop loss data, which were chronicled in the press...even though documented through his "right of center" lens. There might be some shred of redeeming data gleaned.

http://iceagefarmer.com/map/

And iceagefarmers video that I linked to claims that the Paradise fire is a false flag psyop.

The second video you posted alleges that the Thousand oaks fire was a terrorist act.

You can consider those credible if you want.
I won't.

Should say second video I posted (which came from sacha Dobler's site)

Ice Age Farmer is another self-managed blog with no information about the host. There is no way to verify the person, his sources, or his donors. The video "Spudpocalypse" is not impressive.

Thank you for informing me about the English version of the Russian site. I looked at the English and found nothing that supports your contentions about solar cycles causing global warming.

To the contrary, the one article that is relevant--and is from Munich Re and hence credible--contradicts your position. It explains why sudden cold spells do not disprove the anthropogenic origins of global warming. Thus

http://agroinsurance.com/en/spring-frost-losses-and-climate-change-not-a-contradiction-in-terms-munich-re/

So again, you haven't really provided evidence from credible sources. I'm happy to consider your argument but would need to see real analysis from real analysts.

...well, maybe all the back and forth might spark some interest for others who might be curious. I'm currently in whiteout blizzard condition, running on generator, so I'll leave the chat to others.

If you think your blizzard disproves anthropogenic global warming, you may want to read the Munich Re document you pointed us to. It both affirms the anthropogenic story and explains why your experience is compatible with it.

You could also read the Trump Administration's newly released 1,600 page report (or summaries thereof). It makes a powerful case for the role of human activity in driving an extremely rapid and destructive bout of climate change.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/11/23/climate-change-intensifying-economy-impacted-federal-report-finds/2093291002/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2018 10:09PM by Lot's Wife.

...got a break in the weather here. Yeah, some good info in there, but I think I'll just wait for Al G. to weigh in. I mean, how much can we trust Trump or his crackpot cabinet?? He's been a proven liar,,,,,right? A lot of this just seems to get lost in the weeds........right now, I'm f'n freezing!!

I hope the weather turns good, or at least tolerable, soon.

ETA: In this case, I'm confident Al Gore would agree with the adminstration's report which, after all, emanates from the Deep State!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2018 10:47PM by Lot's Wife.

...what is "Deep State"?..........sounds creepy?

“as for Utah's culture of hoarding food, and hoarding guns, It stems from the self reliance culture“

Maybe it stems from a culture of people starving to death under Brigham Young’s regime.

Up thread a bit, anono this week said:
"Exactly, the doomsday all over the establishment and academia is from scientists who have to come up with this stuff so that they can get the government contracts and get their salaries."

That's the exact same rationale given for why NASA faked the moon landing. Their funding was going to get cut if they didn't come up with something. A tip of the hat to the 400,000 intrepid souls who have managed to keep the secret for the last 49 years! ;). I guess they had to up the ante over the years, and now NASA is faking going to Mars. And don't even get me started on the Hubble "telescope" (wink wink nudge nudge). Fake, every bit of it. Just another liberal giveaway.

::snart::

The House, with sets the budget for things like research grants, has been controlled by the party most aligned with climate change denial. How come scientists have not rallied to do research about "the real facts" about climate change being a hoax?

Oil companies have plenty of money. Why don't they have their own climate scientists who can debunk all the supposedly fake science? Oh, wait, they do have their own researchers, who have been seeing the same data and coming to the same conclusions. Funny how that works.

I know, I know. There will always be some people who will be convinced the BoM actually happened (the BoM said there were big cities with stone temples. Central America has abandoned big cities with stone temples, therefore...)

And people who will forever be convinced the moon landing was faked (the Lard God said that man had dominion over the earth, so man has never been anywhere else. And we figured it all out because the shadows were pointing in opposite directions in a doctored photo)

And people who will be forever convinced that all the climate scientists are lying to get grants so the gummint can force everyone to stop using elevators and have to walk up 15 flights of stairs. o_O


When you are reduced to using the arguments used by moon landing deniers, you are on very shaky ground.

I make a plea that this is on topic, because how does one determine what is true is central to Mormonism. After all, there *are* major abandoned cities in Central America, and a significant number of Mormons are convinced that proves the BoM true. They ignore the DNA, the linguistics, the staple foods not mentioned in the BoM, the staple foods that are mentioned, but were not here until Europeans brought them, etc etc etc.

I do kind of wonder how much food storage one needs for a swerving magnetosphere? Two years? One year? Ninety days? Rusty really needs to give clearer guidance, like he did on the the name of the FKAM Church.

Of all people, why should Mormons be spending millions and millions of dollars over more than a hundred years stockpiling emergency supplies just in case of an emergency that may or may not happen???

Isn't getting advance warning of "the big one" one of the big benefits of having a prophet?

Doesn't having a prophet mean never having to say your sorry...sorry for wasting the family's financial resources on crappy emergency supplies that end up being thrown out because they proved to be completely unnecessary? Doesn't having a prophet mean you don't have spend your life guessing and worrying about things that never happen? Doesn't having a prophet mean you have the luxury of making the most efficient use of your resources because the prophet is there to tell you exactly when to prepare and what to prepare for??

That's the way prophets used to work. But Mormon prophets don't seem to be getting the job done. Telling people that they need to be prepared for an ambiguous calamity of a type that they can't pin down exactly that may happen sometime within the next 10, 50, 100 or 150 years, give or take a couple of centuries?

Do you really need a "prophet" for something like that?

If a prophet told Mormons that they should start wearing bicycle helmets 24 hours a day because they may or may not bump their heads, would Mormons do it...and be thankful for being able to benefit from such prophetic wisdom? Would the occasional story about a Mormon who actually benefited from wearing a bicycle helmet when she slipped on some steps be repeated in F&T meetings everywhere as proof of the divine inspiration at work in the Prophet's counsel? Probably.

I'd rather have a walipini.

- some mormons went together & buried (I'm not kidding!) Coal in their back-yards. That was when it was possible to buy 1 car load & pitch it out from some side-track.

- there used to be regular supermarkets 'Prairie Mart'? that offered good deals on case lots (mainly canned goods).

I think the % of canned goods that people consume has been in a tail-spin for several years, people want more fresh / organic now.

Yes, I & a few EQ buddies put up lots of plastic buckets of wheat & rice, then applied CO2 to preserve it.

'Rice is Nice', ha ha. with some side stuff, somewhat palatable, could sustain life I guess.

I think most wheat never made it to the table, but they sold a lot of wheat mills trying...

I have no idea where it is today...

Bumps? That's shocking!