I read dozens and dozens of criticism every day of the LDS and other churches for not doing X: feeding the poor being the main one. So I ask: what exactly are churches "supposed" to do? It seems to me that they see their main job as encouraging a commitment to civic responsibility, and care for the poor is only one part of that. Is that a bad thing? Yes, "they" could spend oodles of money on the poor, but "they" simply do not see that as their charter directive. They (rightly, IMO) say that everybody should work to alleviate poverty, and that they should not be expected to be the patsies to do everybody else's job.

Others think that a church's prime responsibility is to bring its members face to face with God or the divine force, etc. Is that their main job? because if that is so, then again care for the poor is sadly a distraction from that goal. Okay, you may say that care for the poor is union with the divine, but that is obvious at all.

So what is it that all of you expect from the true "church of God"?

...well, although I agree with your sentiment about the proper role of churches, to me, it's more of a question regarding "group think." The tendency of people to want to "belong" to an organization which claims to have their best interests at heart, to me, indicates a lack of self-confidence, or the inability to chart their own course through life.

If 10 people go in one direction, I will be odd-man out. I'm goin' the other way..........F'it! "Heard mentality", I think it's called.

The expectation created by the Church itself is that it is the place where you can get the answers to life's most important and fundamental questions, chiefly:

(1) Where did we come from?

(2) Why are we here?

(3) Where are we going?

(4) Where can we go?

(5) How do we get to the best destination among many possible destinations?

(6) How can we be happier, wiser, more accomplished and perfect beings in this life?

The expectation promoted by the Church itself is that the Church (being the fully restored Church designed and created by Jesus himself) is the best place to find the answers and solutions, and that the scriptures and the Church leaders are there to guide you every step of the way.

Well it took me years of studying and searching for the answers in the Church to get to that moment where I realized that all the expectations were like a flimsily constructed automobile prototype that had collided at high speed into the huge reinforced concrete wall of reality...with all the predictable results.

The reality is that the "answers" obtainable from the Church never really answer anything. Basically the answers are trite and unsatisfactory, substantially amounting to little more than the following:

1) Where did we come from?

ANSWER: We came from the place we were at before we got here. It was called the pre-existence (i.e. the place we were at before we got here). Beyond that we don't know much about it.

(2) Why are we here?

ANSWER: To learn. To get bodies. To be tested.

Don't ask any deep follow-up questions because it's all quite mysterious and the deep questions will be answered after we die...or not. It's not essential to your salvation (whatever that means) to know anything in depth about such things.


(3) Where are we going?

ANSWER: We're going to the place we will be at after we die.

(4) Where can we go?

ANSWER: Depending on whether we're naughty or nice and how naughty and how nice, we may go to a really good place, a sort-of good place, an okay but not great place, OR a bad place. OR even a really, really bad place.

Don't ask any deep follow-up questions because it's all quite mysterious and the deep questions will be answered after we die...or not...or maybe...it depends.

(5) How do we get to the best destination among many possible destinations?

ANSWER: Do what the often incoherent, self-contradictory and irrational scriptures tell you to do and follow the often incoherent, inconsistent, arbitrary and contradictory things that the leaders tell you to do...and...and always be sure to pay your tithing and then some to be on the safe side.

If you do all that, everything will work out great...or not...hard to say for sure until you get judged by Jesus, Michael and Joseph. Yeah, those guys.

You known, Joseph? Joseph Smith, Jr. the guy who operated the banking scam in Kirtland? Yeah, yeah. That Joseph. The guy who slept around with multiple women to whom he was not legally married and not for the purpose of raising up seed. The guy who drank beer and wine. The guy who destroyed a printing press because it was going to publish a paper truthfully revealing the goings-on of a secret polygamy society that he had set up. The guy who pretended to "translate" the Book of Abraham from papyri "written in Abraham's own hand" when it turned out that it was actually nothing of the kind. That's right. THAT JOSEPH. Yep. That guy is going to judge you and decide where you go for all eternity. Something to look forward to, right?

(6) How can we be happier, wiser, more accomplished and perfect beings in this life?

ANSWER: See the answer to number (5) above. Same sh*t. Same sh*tty results.

I expect a church to follow its own teachings, to treat its members with respect and to be responsible for their own actions.

.

Churches (of different kinds) define themselves (and to Americans, may colloquially include ANY "houses" or "organizations" of worship--whether they are "Christian" or not).

In the United States, those entities who self-define themselves as Christian churches are presumed to follow the teachings of the New Testament, which includes "taking care" of the poor.

The problem with the LDS Church is that it self-defines as "Christian" (at least to outsiders; at least most of the time), but they are actually, legally, structured as a real estate development corporation.

Contributions (tithing, plus donations, plus financial or other valuable gifts bequeathed from deceased members) are invested into real estate, the real estate is developed (often into profit-making businesses of various kinds which have nothing to do with the LDS religion), and THOSE profits are invested again...and again...and so on. (Complicated by the fact that many of the actual employees who work the business are either unpaid, or themselves have to pay for being able to work for the corporation.)

In other churches run by other Christian denominations, finances are openly disclosed on a regular basis to the members, and there is usually some kind of self-government to which ordinary members get some kind of input.

Most of the time, this includes some kinds of finances paid out to organizations, or to individuals, who "take care of the poor" (or do other kinds of charitable works). Many times these non-LDS churches have their own organizational groups who not only spend money to "help the poor," but actually provide whatever services are necessary to those they help. (Think of Jimmy Carter, personally, himself, building houses as part of one of these groups, as one great example.)

The problem with the LDS Church is that they foster the assumption that they are a Christian group, but they do not ACT like a "Christian group," because instead of "helping the poor" (or anyone else), they are clearly, mostly, a real estate development corporation (which includes subsidiary, profit-making businesses), who funnel the considerable profits, and much of the cash flow, of the corporation to the relative handful of people who have risen to the top leadership positions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2018 03:12AM by Tevai.

I expect churches to provide for their members' emotional and spiritual needs, to provide community, and to not be overly controlling of their members' time and money. I expect churches (as organizations) to have an attitude of humility. I expect church leaders to consistently behave in an ethical manner. And I expect them to do charitable works for the community at large.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2018 07:00PM by summer.

IMO they should just stop lying. They don't know crap about a god or afterlife and neither do you (collective you).

If they would stop with all the faith in unprovable nonsense and start with faith in this life instead of the next, maybe they could earn respect.

The true test of a person is not if they can jump through a hoop higher than any one else. It is not if they can follow the rules no matter how difficult. It is not how hard will they work, how much will they sacrifice for a divine reward.

The true test of a person is what will they be, who will they be, when there are no rules?

With no reason whatsoever to be their best, help others, accomplish what they can, grow, understand, explore. Will they still do that? With no reward? No punishment? No religion? But still they would strive to be kind and accomplished? That is what I want to see in a person.

Nothing kills the self faster than worrying about what someone else wants you to do, what someone else wants you to be. Even if that someone else is some unseen god and you are bowing to his self appointed medially.

2018. Just guided a spacecraft through a part of Universe to land on Mars. And, we are still using that ridiculous mess of a Bible to guide us on this planet?

I want to be the best I can be. Period. For no other reason than that is what is in me. I am not letting any religions stop me from that.

The role of a church is suppose to be to take care of the "widows and orphans." These days "widows and orphans" is a loose term to describe all the women who have babies and rely on entitlements rather than their estranged husbands. But churches can't take on all these problems because churches don't get the tithing revenue needed to manufacture mass welfare programs. So the government has taken on that responsibility. And since the government is involved naturally they have to create enormous bureaucracy with deficit spending to manage the money.

But the churches are still demanding "luv gifts", "seeds,"and "tithes" which very often gets spent on the pastor and his stipend. If churches were honorable they would say we don't need your money because the government is taxing everyone too much anyway 40% of every dollar is getting taxed and we regret this bondage that american workers have to deal with, So we are doing this christian service for free because we love you!

(It aint gunna happen)

I personally don't expect churches to do anything.
I certainly don't think there's any such thing as a 'church of god.'

I do, however, rather enjoy pointing out their constant and blatant hypocrisy. You know, when they claim to believe/teach one thing, and then do the opposite. Usually because of lust for power or money or control.

I not only don't expect churches to deal with poverty and homelessness and other such social problems, I don't *want* them to. Those are social problems, not religious problems. And when churches do a tiny bit of "aid" in those areas, it provides an excuse for parts of society to claim the churches can take care of the problems, so society doesn't need to. And the problems never get solved...

Where are we going?
Underground security vault?

Thank you Wally for explaining more than a year of Sunday School Gospel Principles class did.

I would expect churches to treat married and unmarried people equally and not reserve heaven only for people who are married..

I would expect churches to pay taxes, since they are in the country, benefit from its roads and bridges and fire departments and police, just like everyone who pays taxes does.

I would expect some truth-in-lending: if we are really going to get to heaven by tithing, etc., can I see some proof of it?