Sorry this is so long... I hope this story will offer hope to a few folks, though.

I've been posting on this board for at least fifteen years. As I've gotten older and Mormonism has had less of an effect on my life, I don't post as much as I once did. Some of you have been around long enough to know my story, though, and I feel like sharing it again for those who have come in later... especially since we've had kind of a happy ending.

I married my husband in 2002. At the time, he had been divorced for about 18 months. He and his first wife were LDS converts, having become Mormons in the last three years of their disastrous marriage. My husband was his ex wife's second husband. They had two daughters together, and she has a son from her first marriage. She also has a daughter and a son from her third marriage. I don't know if the Ex still LDS. I get the sense that she may have abandoned the religion when it no longer served a practical purpose.

When my husband and his ex wife split, their daughters were 8 and 6 years old. Unfortunately, at the time, my husband had serious financial problems. He was also in the Army, which he had rejoined just prior to the divorce. He got out for several years, mainly because his ex wife didn't want him to be in the Army anymore. They had been living in a town where well paying jobs were scarce. Ex wanted to live in a small town and own her own house, but the town where they lived didn't offer work that would support her desires. Ex also had a shopping addiction and insisted on handling the bills. All of this, along with church tithing and medical debt, caused my husband and his ex to go broke.

The Army National Guard offered a job opportunity to my husband. He gratefully decided to accept the job, since it meant much better pay and benefits. Ex was unhappy that my husband no longer wanted to work swing shifts in factories. She also falsely accused him of being a pervert who hates women (absolutely NOT true) and demanded that he see his LDS bishop for "counseling". Over Easter 2000, at my father-in-law's house, Ex demanded a divorce. She was reportedly shocked when my husband agreed. She decided to make him pay for not "fighting" for the marriage by caving to her demands.

The worst part of their divorce was the Ex's singleminded mission of destroying the relationship he'd had with his daughters and ex stepson. He'd been a loving and involved dad-- or as involved as he could be, considering that he was often working in a factory when the kids were sleeping. After the divorce, Ex did her best to make my husband's daughters hate him.

It's now 2018. The last time my husband saw his daughters in person was Christmas 2004. It was just after we celebrated our second wedding anniversary. My husband was trying to arrange visitation with his daughters, but Ex kept shooting down all of his suggestions. At one point, she said we could visit her house for Thanksgiving. Ex was living in Arizona and we were in Virginia. We also had very little money, owing to the significant financial recovery we had to undertake after the divorce and the fact that my husband was paying child support for three children, one of which wasn't even legally his responsibility. Also, I had zero desire to spend Thanksgiving at Ex's house. Really, my husband just wanted to see his kids on his own, which should not have been an issue. But Ex refused to cooperate, and we lacked the ability to force the issue.

So then, Ex invited herself to my father-in-law's house in Tennessee. At the time, her youngest daughter was a baby and her youngest son hadn't been born. She informed my husband that she and her current husband and the children would stay at my husband's dad's house. My husband and I were expected to get a hotel room.

I wouldn't have minded staying in a hotel. In fact, nowadays, I prefer staying at hotels rather than in people's houses. That way, you can escape if things get too shitty. However, it didn't sit well with me that my husband's ex wife, post divorce, had invited my husband to his own father's house for Christmas. No one had even asked me if I wanted to attend. I was simply expected to show up and shut up. I knew it would be a disaster.

I have endured my share of dramatic Christmases with my own family. In fact, Christmas 2003, which I did spend with my immediate family, was pretty horrible. It ended with us leaving my sister stranded at my parents' house. I swore off family Christmases. One night in late 2004, as I stewed over what to do about this Christmas gathering Ex had cooked up, I realized that I simply didn't want to go. I didn't want to spend Christmas with my own family-- people I actually love. Why would I want to spend Christmas with my husband's ex wife, whom I despise? I knew, at the very least, it would be a very stressful environment for everyone. I felt my being there would not make things better. In fact, I had a feeling that if I attended, there would be high drama. It seemed disrespectful for me to attend that gathering, knowing that I would probably not be able to hide my true and extremely negative feelings about the situation. I knew my in laws just wanted to celebrate the holiday in peace and see the grandchildren.

I had only met my husband's daughters once. I figured it wouldn't matter to them if I wasn't there, since we barely knew each other. And I had a feeling that if I was forced to be in a house with my husband's ex wife, there would be a big fight. Also, we really couldn't afford the trip. So I told my husband to go to Tennessee and see his kids. I'd stay home and take care of our dogs... and drink lots of wine.


Well, he went, and came back in time for Christmas Eve. He said it was great to see his daughters, although the actual visit was pretty awful. The younger daughter refused to speak to him. The other two kids were under pressure not to be friendly. Ex made little pointed digs at my husband, and her current husband acted like a complete jackass, horning in whenever my husband tried to bond with his daughters, along with making smarmy comments that indicated that he thought my husband was a shitty father. No one stood up for my husband, and everybody blamed me for "ruining" Christmas by not showing up to this fiasco (and years later, almost everyone involved agreed that's what it was).

For years, my husband had no contact whatsoever with his daughters. There were a few years when ex stepson spoke to him, but that stopped in 2009, when we caught him using my husband for money. In 2011, child support stopped. Our finances got markedly better and we sort of lost touch with Ex and her nonsense.

Until very recently, I have been very angry with my husband's daughters for the way they've treated my husband. At Christmas 2012, younger daughter made contact with my husband's dad and even outright said she didn't want to talk about her father. My father-in-law then passed this message to us on Christmas Day, which caused some drama and tears. It reached a pinnacle in 2016, when my husband's younger daughter showed up on Facebook as a "person he might know". To make matters worse, we were celebrating our wedding anniversary in Ireland at the time. I resented the intrusion, since at that point, they had made it clear they wanted nothing to do with us. I just wanted them to leave us in peace.

But then, my husband noticed that his younger daughter posted condolences on a Facebook thread about my father-in-law's dog, Ginger, who had just died. My husband responded to his daughter's comment. Pretty soon, they started messaging each other. Then, they started Skyping.

My husband now has a grandson. He hasn't seen him in person yet, because we live in Germany and his daughter is in Idaho. She's currently pregnant with her second child and regularly communicates to my husband via email and Skype. She's even Skyped with my mother-in-law, from whom she'd been estranged for many years-- even longer than she was estranged from my husband. Ex hates my mother-in-law, so she would not allow my husband's daughters to talk to her. But now, it seems younger daughter has made up her mind to mend fences.

My husband's older daughter remains estranged, mainly because she's still living with Ex and is apparently raising her younger brother. But there's hope she'll come around. Even ex stepson, who had a falling out with my husband about ten years ago, has softened somewhat. He has a daughter of his own now, and supposedly realizes that he didn't treat my husband right.

But... I think the most telling part of this long story is what came to light last night. My husband called his dad to wish him a happy holiday, and they got to talking about younger daughter. Evidently, she asked my father-in-law not to tell her mother that she's pregnant. Ex now lives in New Hampshire, but she has a habit of doing the old "surprise visit". More than once, she's gotten a wild idea to just show up on someone's doorstep, expecting hospitality. That may have been why younger daughter didn't want her to know about the pregnancy. Or, it may have been for simpler reasons. What we do know is that younger daughter realizes what happened and seems determined to break the parental alienation pattern with her own family.

Also... although I still don't like Mormonism, I have seen that the Mormons played a big part in this turnaround. For one thing, it's clear that church people served as good examples to my husband's daughters and helped them when their mother wouldn't. My husband's younger daughter showed up at BYU with not so much as sheets for the bed. Church members helped her. We would have helped, too, if she had been speaking to us. Younger daughter also went on a mission, and that's when she really started to change for the better. I think it's because she was exposed to other people. It forced her to grow up. I also have a feeling that being away from her mother's toxicity was a huge benefit. My husband has told me, more than once, that once he got away from his ex wife, he started feeling a whole lot better. He could make plans and rebuild his life. Conversations with younger daughter have led him to believe she's had a similar experience.

Although I still wonder if things will eventually go south again, I will go on record to say that I was wrong about my husband's daughters. It's been really gratifying for me to watch my husband heal his relationship with his child. Maybe, in 2019, they will finally see each other again. If that happens, I will probably stay behind and take care of the dogs again. I figure they'll want to spend that time alone.

Whenever I post this story, I usually get at least one or two people who try to blame me or my husband for the estrangement. Some of you have gotten to know us well enough to see the truth. My husband is one of the nicest, kindest, most responsible people I have ever known. Unfortunately, he got hooked up with someone who is probably a malignant narcissist. Fortunately, she's not a very intelligent or courageous narcissist. I feel sad that my husband and his kids missed so many years together, but at the same time, it's very gratifying that my husband's daughter did admit to remembering nothing but love from her dad. It's lovely to watch them reconnect and get to know each other again, but it's especially gratifying to see my husband's daughter standing up to her toxic mother.

So I'm posting this for those who are in a similar situation. I can't say everyone will have this kind of an ending, nor can I say that things won't change for us. But there is some hope... I thought our situation was hopeless, but look what's happening now. It's pretty cool. There's always hope. Try to keep the faith.

I love your story, Knotty. I'm so happy for you that one of your husband's daughters has reconnected with him. I hope that your husband is careful to never badmouth the Ex to her, no matter what his daughter might say about her.

He doesn’t badmouth her. In fact, I don’t think they really talk about her much. On the rare occasions her name comes up, I think he mostly reacts with empathy. It turns out Ex treats her children the same way she treats her husbands, minus the sexual abuse. When younger daughter left home, she got a lot of the same abuse my husband got, to the point at which Ex was turning her siblings against her.

But seriously... you’d have to know my husband. He really is a sweetheart, and rarely has bad things to say about anyone. He’s truly remarkable. I, on the other hand, am a lot more outspoken.

The older daughter may well get the same treatment from the Ex if she ever leaves home.

She probably will. Unfortunately, her situation is complicated. Although she is a talented artist who has a college degree, she doesn’t drive. She is supposedly on the autism spectrum (according to Ex, who now claims three of her kids have autism). Personally, I have my doubts that older daughter has autism. I just think she’s a very sensitive person who has been convinced that she can’t succeed on her own.

We did hear that she dates a lot and has even gotten marriage proposals, though maybe not with the best guys (one who proposed turned out to have another girl on the side). Ex stepson has offered to help her move back to Arizona by getting her a job. My husband has, through the siblings, offered to help pay for the move. But older daughter apparently doesn’t want to leave the youngest kid. He’s twelve, and apparently she’s his de facto mother at age 27.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Ex did do the same to older daughter if she left. Unfortunately, it has to be her decision. I think if she does move, she’ll come around.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2018 09:05AM by knotheadusc.

I love your story.

Thank you for sharing your story, and updating us. It’s really heartening to read about the softening of your husband’s relationship with his daughter.

My husband had a similar situation with his ex wife and two older children. He was estranged from his son and daughter for many years, and the kids were led to believe he didn’t want to be a dad to them. Then, when she was about 26, his daughter contacted him. She had a difficult relationship with her narcissistic mother, and decided to try to understand her parents’ situation from her dad’s perspective. Over the years, they have developed a close and loving relationship, and not only with one another. Our younger two kids and I are her family now as well, and her two sons are my grandkids. I’ve told her she is a real gift to all of us.

My husband’s son remains estranged - both with us and with his sister . We have opened the door to him, and my younger daughter has met him a couple of times. Though he has been cordial with her, he has made it clear he doesn’t want to pursue a relationship. Who knows, he may wish to some day, or perhaps as with your husband’s older daughter, he may choose to remain with the narrative about his dad he was brought up with. We’re just grateful that my husband was given a second chance with his daughter.

I'm happy to read that your husband's daughter has come around, too. As for the son, who knows? It may be too painful and complicated for him to develop a relationship. It's good to know that he's at least been cordial to your younger daughter.

"Too complicated" may be the case for my husband's older daughter, too. I remember when both of her parents remarried, she was about 11. She lamented that she'd have to remember two more names. At the time, I thought it was kind of funny, but now I realize that the situation was probably bewildering for her. I've never been as angry at the older daughter, because she was never as hateful as her sister was. I also remember, the one time I did meet her in person, she was the first one to relax and enjoy the visit. The first thing she said to me was "I'm sorry." She apologized for her personality, which I felt was really sad. I told her we didn't have to get to know each other all in one day. She looked visibly relieved and then told me she had a crush on Harry Potter.

It's sad how common these tales of parental alienation are. I barely know my husband's daughters, but I saw firsthand how hurtful it was for him when they disowned him and claimed they didn't remember him being a part of their lives. I don't have children of my own, but I think if I had been a parent and one or more of my children had disowned me, the pain would be almost too much to bear.

I do know that when my husband talked to his daughter recently, she told him of an incident that happened before the divorce. She was about five or six years old. They lived in Arkansas, and it had snowed. She wanted to play in the snow, but her mother had told her she wasn't allowed to go outside.

My husband was there, and he encouraged her to go out and play with her brother and sister. She said all she remembered from that incident was how kind and loving my husband was. I believe it, because he's an extremely loving person to me. That's why their rejection of him made me so angry. He's absolutely the last person who deserves that kind of treatment.

I guess all you can do is be open, and hope their eyes open before it's too late.