...and if didn't happen when you thought it would happen were you disappointed?

I grew up during the Saturday Evening of Time Hysteria, when saturdays warrior was the big Cheese. The 80s-90s, I recall special firesides at the Bishops house where we would hear all about the nuclear wars that were coming and how god was going to kill all the animals and destroy everything because of the rise of wickedness (Leftist agenda, feminism etc) The time when Big Bruce was the Big thing, His books were everywhere and always relied upon in Seminary, Sunday School. It was the Kimball/Benson era when the world was more black and white, when everyone was suppose to have a garden, woman stay at home instead of making pocket change for extra sweaters. When men over 28 were abominable for being single. When everything east of the mississippi was wicked because there were no temples or mormons, and it was so far away. It was a less PC time, a less corrilated time, when mormon leaders said what they really thought, instead of the watered down sweetness and light that is put forth today. Less politicking, less fear of saying the wrong thing.

In the early 90's, I clearly remember a Mo friend talking about an elderly lady who was eagerly preparing for the walk to Missouri...

Her patriarchal blessing even mentioned that she would play a key role helping her family cross the country from Utah towards Jackson County. She had bought all kinds of heavy boots, flashlights, dry food supplies etc.

I am not kidding, it's real.

30 years later, that elderly lady is certainly not among us anymore. Meanwhile, the Utah cult is planning new Mo Games in Utah in 2030...

So no Missouri in the near future, no New Jerusalem, no Second Coming in sight.

Just sick cult jokes.

The walk to Missouri was a part of why they let the blacks finally hold the priesthood. Someone's got to carry the luggage to Missouri (bad racist joke but acceptable at the time).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2018 10:47AM by azsteve.

Why can't the Mormons drive or fly to Missouri? It It would take a lot less time.

The world can only end at the start of years that are big round numbers.

My sister bought a covered wagon back in the 70's for the trek back to MO. Seriously.

We were just told that there was no way to know when it would be exactly, but that it would be in our lifetime and that of course all non-mormons, at least the most wicked, would all be killed and we'd have to walk to Utah & shit. I was always very upset by the whole notion and, when I was very young, hoped it was bullshit then was very relieved when I got a bit older and wiser and realized it really was, all the other very real problems with the world & climate notwithstanding.

earthdaughter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We were just told that there was no way to know
> when it would be exactly, but that it would be in
> our lifetime

That always made no sense to me, how can they know it would be in our lifetime if there was no way to know when?

I know, right? I feel like they've been saying that or at least strongly hinting at it for a couple of generations now.

Still about pratriarchal blessings.

In my area until the 90's patriarchs would regularly state in patriarchal blessings that people would be around for the 2nd Coming.

My blessing says that specifically... (I got it in 1992.) It says that I will not experience death, but that I will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye to an immortal state to meet Jesus.

At about the same time, a cult leader announced that pratriarchs had been told not to make that kind of statements any more. No more 2nd Coming "prophecies".

After all, many many people who had been promised to be alive at the Second Coming had died already -- and kept dying, of sheer old age...

Extremely inspired cult.

My parents were part of the chosen generation who would usher in the second coming as was I. Glad to know it hasn't happened yet. I thought maybe I messed up somehow and missed it.

I remember a fireside given by a General Authority. In it he said "some of you here tonight in the younger generation will live long enough to see the second coming in your lifetime". I was in my early teens then. Of course I didn't realize at the time that that prophecy couldn't be disproved until everyone there had already died of old age. By then, no one would be left to call him a liar and also that he himself would be long gone by then. It was a pretty safe lie for him to tell.

What I remember hearing in the 50's and 60's was a lot of talk about the thousand year millenium when so much work had to be done for the dead I think. Satan would lose his powers. That the world would be cleansed and transformed into a glass ball like a seer stone and all would be revealed in it. Anyone would be able to see anything you had done.

The walk to Missouri was still for a sure thing as it hadn't yet been down graded from a holy prophecy to a "I don't know that we teach that" item and we all had to be ready at any time to drop everything and go. My family planned on doing it.

I had several friends whose PB's told them they would be changed in the twinkling of an eye and not "taste of death". Some said they would be walking back to Missouri. I always thought how unworthy I must be, because mine didn't promise any of those cool things! When the Gulf War began, someone in the bishopric got up in Fast and Testimony meeting and speculated if this was the beginning of Armageddon at last.

I remember being told about the last days and that all the Mormons would pack up their things and go to Missouri in the same way as they had traveled to Utah.

I couldn't get an answer to the question, "Why not pack up the U-Haul and drive it there now, getting there ahead of the big rush?"

I was in your camp, Tumwater. After my sister bought the covered wagon (complete with the iron wheels), I asked her the same question. Her answer? There won't be any gasoline, so we'll have to use horses. So then I asked her, "well then, why not hook up the horses to a car or truck and at least travel on rubber tires?" She got rid of the covered wagon soon after that.

Oh yeah, Missouri not Utah... whatever same damn thing as far as I'm concerned

Yes. I attended youth conference classes in the 70s dedicated to the signs of the second coming and end of the world. Is LDS Inc. still using this scare tactic?

LDS Inc. is such a contradiction. They preach about how marvelous the Celestial kingdom is, and even the lowest kingdom - the telestial kingdom - is supposedly so wonderful that we'd all commit suicide to go there if we knew how wonderful it was. Why then should we care about our demise if we're going to a much better place where we'll live happily ever after?

it was going to be so wonderful!!!!! .....except that things had to be really really horrible first !!! the kind of horrible where a person would want to kill themselves .... a million times over!!!! but they would not kill themselves because the abject misery part was going to be the lead in for when Jesus finally returned and then things would instantly be really really great.

Just think of it! a person would be some place, with open wounds on their body from radiation and/or disease, they might be freezing to death from the bitter cold or dying of thirst in extreme heat. Their insides churning with agony from extreme trauma and lack of nutrition. They'd be watching their traumatized family members and associates endure the same agony, the ones who were not already dead, that is! And the dead people would smell awful. But that was all part of the intense suffering that was needed to coax Jesus into returning.

what a relief it would be once Jesus finally made his grand entrance of his mighty return!! ......that everyone would somehow instantly know about ..... and at that moment, everyone would know that all the endless hours of torment and agony and suffering were totally worth it as some kind of emphasis for how awesome that Jesus is!

Not much. My parents never talked about it and I wasn't paying attention in church.

1. Rising generation in 1843 alive at 2nd coming.

Mormon Doctrine, pp. 692-93:

"Four days [after D&C 130], April 6, 1843, at the General Conference of the Church, while the Spirit rested upon him, the Prophet said: 'Were I going to prophesy, I would say the end would not come in 1844, 5, or 6, or in forty years. There are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes.'

The rising generation is the one that has just begun. Thus, technically, children born on April 6, 1843, would be the first members of the rising generation, and all children born, however many years later, to the same parents would still be members of that same rising generation. It is not unreasonable to suppose that many young men had babies at the time of this prophecy and also had other children as much as 50 or 75 years later, assuming for instance that they were married again to younger women. This very probable assumption would bring the date up to, say, the 2nd decade in the 20th century – and the children so born would be members of that same rising generation of which the Prophet spoke. Now if these children lived to the normal age of men generally, they would be alive well past the year 2000 A.D."


2. Talmage and the lost tribes.

Conference Report, Oct. 1916, p. 76 (also Articles of Faith, p. 514):

"The ten tribes shall come; they are not lost unto the Lord; they shall be brought forth as hath been predicted; and I say unto you there are those now living – aye, some here present – who shall live to read the records of the Lost Tribes of Israel, which shall be made one with the record of the Jews, or the Holy Bible, and the record of the Nephites, or the Book of Mormon, even as the Lord hath predicted."


3. The journey to Missouri.

Joseph F. Smith, December 3, 1882, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 24, pp. 156-57:

"When God leads the people back to Jackson County, how will he do it? Let me picture to you how some of us may be gathered and led to Jackson County. I think I see two or three hundred thousand people wending their way across the great plain enduring the nameless hardships of the journey, herding and guarding their cattle by day and by night, and defending themselves and little ones from foes on the right hand and on the left, as when they came here. They will find the journey back to Jackson County will be as real as when they came out here. Now, mark it. And though you may be led by the power of God 'with a stretched out arm,' it will not be more manifest than the leading the people out here to those that participate in it.

"They will think there are a great many hardships to endure in this manifestation of the power of God, and it will be left, perhaps to their children to see the glory of their deliverance, just as it is left for us to see the glory of our former deliverance from the hands of those that sought to destroy us. This is one way to look at it. It is certainly a practical view. Some might ask, what will become of the railroads? I fear that the sifting process would be insufficient were we to travel by railroads. We are apt to overlook the manifestations of the power of God to us because we are participators in them, and regard them as commonplace events. But when it is written in history – as it will be written – it will be shown forth to future generations as one of the most marvelous, unexampled and unprecedented accomplishments that has ever been known to history."


4. Destruction of New York, Boston and Albany.

"These cities were the subject of another prophet's testimony. Elder Wilford Woodruff addressed a conference in Logan, Utah, on 22 August 1863. Speaking directly to the youth in attendance, he declared: 'Now, my young friends, I wish you to remember these scenes you are witnessing during the visit of President Young and his brethren. Yea, my young friends, treasure up the teachings and sayings of these prophets and apostles as precious treasure while they are living men, and do not wait until they are dead. A few days and President Young and his brethren, the prophets and apostles and Brothers Benson and Maughan, will be in the spirit world. You should never forget this visitation. You are to become men and women, fathers and mothers; yea, the day will come, after your fathers, and these prophets and apostles are dead, you will have the privilege of going into the towers of a glorious Temple built unto the name of the Most High (pointing in the direction of the bench), east of us upon the Logan bench; and while you stand in the towers of the Temple and your eyes survey this glorious valley filled with cities and villages, occupied by tens of thousands of Latter-day Saints, you will then call to mind this visitation of President Young and his company. You will say: That was in the days when Presidents Benson and Maughan presided over us; that was before New York was destroyed by an earthquake; it was before Boston was swept into the sea, by the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds; it was before Albany was destroyed by fire; yea, at that time you will remember the scenes of this day. Treasure them up and forget them not.' President Young followed and said: 'What Brother Woodruff has said is revelation and will be fulfilled.'"

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-84-the-oath-and-covenant-of-the-priesthood?lang=eng

So, how did that New York and Boston thing pan out?

Well, there actually is an earthquake danger for New York City as there are faults that go through Manhattan. There was a major earthquake there in 1737.

As for Boston being swept out to sea, that actually is in the realm of possibility as there are seismic risks in the Atlantic that *could* one day generate a nasty tsunami for the New England coastline.

Now why anyone would care about Albany is beyond me...

Albany was a bid deal back in the day. In 1825 the Eerie Canal opened up, connecting the Hudson River (Albany) to the Great Lakes. The result was a massive increase in trade and passenger traffic that accelerated the movement of Americans into the West. Albany grew much richer and more important, and the greater trade strengthened NYC's commercial and financial power. So to JS and the other early Mormons, Albany would have symbolized mundane influence, wealth, and cultural sophistication--like NYC and Boston.

As an aside, it was a few decades later when Rockefeller monopolized the transportation of oil from the fields of NY, PA, and Ohio. He had to bypass the Eerie Canal and hence focused on pipelines and railroads. Monopolization was a brutal process and occurred pretty close to where the Mormons had been active. It's an interesting contrast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2018 11:31PM by Lot's Wife.

When I grew up, Leon Skousen was The Big Author in the church. So, the curt answer to the question is, "Lots."

I even later had Skousen as a religion "professor" at BYU. Man, what a piece of work he was. Ditto Hugh Nibley.

Clean.....sorry.

Oops, I meant Cleon....stupid spellcheck....double sorry.

Same thing happened to me with my phone, but I didn't notice it had changed Cleon to Leon. I hate my phone for forever doing that, and myself for not noticing half the time.

I remember being told that we were in the eleventh hour of the eleventh day and the end would happen any day now. We were supposed to get a two year supply of food and be ready to leave. I didn't understand how having lots of food and being ready to leave went together, but I also didn't question the leaders who were being directed by gawd almighty himself.

One Winter Sunday, sitting in Elder's quorum meeting, I remember being told to learn how to build a handcart much like the pioneers used. I asked why we wouldn't just drive our cars to Missouri instead of pulling handcarts. Yeah, I got shut down and told that there wouldn't be any gas for the cars and the roads would all be destroyed somehow. I wondered how I would build a handcart in my garage, but felt that the "brethren" would supply a way when that day arrived.

I spent a fortune on food storage that mostly went bad and was thrown away. I almost bought a ton of coal to bury in my backyard. I stored two 50 gallon barrels of water that would have killed anyone who drank it after years of storage. All for what? Because my mormon mormon mormon leaders told me to and I obeyed.

You, I, NormaRae, and many others here are witness to what you're saying. I really do wonder how many Mormons still store one year of food. It was a novel idea, but a pretty big fail.

I didn't really think too much about it. It was scriptural that when Jesus returns he'll come as a "thief in the night" and that no one really knows the timing. Yet so many pundits try to predict with errant accuracy that each one falls like dominoes.

It's the evangelical Christians and other Christian denominations IMO that preach the hellfire and Rapture stuff. Mormonism is more New Age like because it teaches almost everyone is saved, unlike most Christians believe. If you believe Mormonism, it really isn't all that Christian in its teachings insofar that most everyone is saved whether they're believers or not.

Then there was the "twinkling." For those who lived to the Millenium, would be "twinkled," and not experience death, but instant translation from death to resurrection. Or something about a magical number of years like if you lived to 100 or 110 in the Millenium, you'd then be 'twinkled.' It's a funny term.

:)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2018 05:54PM by Amyjo.

I was told that we didn't know when specifically, but "it will be in your lifetime." Apparently the Morg's end of the world prophecy is "keep telling people that the world will end in their lifetime and we'll eventually be right."

Again, heard about the "twinkling" in seminary (almost sounds like a euphemism for peeing). And how we may or may not get our own world to build (but no aliens! God loves conformity!).

They abandoned the walk to Missouri when I was growing up. Either that or it was secret-sorry-sacred doctrine my tender young ears couldn't handle.

https://askgramps.org/twinkling-work/

The millennium will be a period of 1000 years where Christ will reign personally upon the earth. All who live during the millennium will experience some change to their bodies. The results of this change to our bodies means that “there will be no disease, and there will be no death. When people become old, they will not die as we do now. They will change in an instant from the way we are now to an immortal condition, which means they will never die again.”

This “change in an instant” from our mortal bodies to immortal bodies is described by many as a “twinkle.” This change will occur when individuals reach a specific age. Some members postulate that this age will be seventy-two and evidence to support this thought is discovered within 3 Nephi 28:3:

“Blessed are ye because ye desired this thing of me; therefore, after that ye are seventy and two years old ye shall come unto me in my kingdom; and with me ye shall find rest.”

In light of this discussion, married couples will not need to worry about a younger spouse being twinkled before them. Older spouses will “change in an instant” and older spouses will wait patiently for the time their younger spouse reaches the age for their body to be changed in an instant. I assume, since the veil is so thin during the millennium, spouses who are twinkled before their spouse will still be able to visit with their spouse.

I grew up in the Washington DC suburbs in the height of the Cold War, during the Cuban missile crisis, with daily air raid drills and people digging fallout shelters. The End of the World could happen any minute. The religious version of the end of the world took a back seat to that.

I learned, as many here did, that the world would be cleansed and only true believers would survive the flames and floods. The walk to Missouri was as real as it could be for me - my parents even bought a house there for a time so we wouldn't have to go as far to reach the holy gathering place. I loved living there and actually felt more secure knowing other people would have to walk much farther and probably wouldn't make it. I'm ashamed of that now, but I was only about 14 at the time. We had the usual food storage and emergency supplies too. A giant garden was a must (the weeding! I hate the endless weeding!!!) and studying the scriptures to figure out when it would all happen was also required. We were taught that we would live to see it all, so we had BETTER be prepared for it.

In the early 90's I recall our seminary teacher telling us that word had it among church higher ups that a plethora of water towers were seen being built in Missouri. This clearly indicated that the saints were preparing to march east to prepare for the end of the world. They were already storing water and food in preparation! He was convinced this was the beginning of it all.

My parents were never-mos, so we didn't heart that nonsense. Whenever, I heard it elsewhere, it didn't make sense to me. After becoming a mormon, I never preached that to our kids.

To me, the "End of The World" catches everyone--It's just the "End of The Body."

When I moved back to Mesa in 1998, the house we ended up buying was from a Mormon family that was anxious to move back to Missouri before the Y2K calamity struck.

I was amazed that they sold us their 4 bedroom house for under 90 grand yet they actually seemed pleased to get that believing it was just in the nick of time.

Thanks Jeebus!

I bet they regret that now.

What a find.

Both political parties would collapse. The president would be killed while in office.
People would search the length and breadth of the country to find some man (no one thought in terms of a female president) willing to lead the country, but no one would be found.

The Great White Chief would come from a secret hidden city in the Yucatan, and proceed to set in order the LDS Church. i don't know if he would set in order the US government while he was at it.

Polygamy would become a thing again. Seven women would cling to one man, so their "reproach" could be taken away. They would support the men. I think a LOT of polygamist men have taken that scripture from Isaiah to heart.

Things would be a MESS. Just one GREAT big mess. People would die like flies. There would not be enough living to bury the dead. Blood would run in the gutter like water. Oh my.

The only hope for ANYONE was buying stock in the Dream Mine. Some people believe in salvation by grace and some believe in salvation by works, buut according to my father all anyone had to do to get saved was buy stock in the Dream Mine. At 13 bucks a share, salvation was available to almost everyone because one share was all anybody needed.

Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith and the Angel Moroni would come to earth in a flying saucer and all kinds of amazing things would happen after that.

I can't remember it all.

Daddy made the mistake of putting a date on the beginning of the end, and of course none of it would ever happen, so he would get REAL depressed.

The way we used to comfort him was to pat his hand and say, "there, there, it's not the end of thw world."

And it still isn't.

This is a nevermo answer:

My Dad was an aerospace engineer, and he always said that when this planet "ended" (by whatever means, such as impact by a foreign space object of some kind), we humans would already have long-established outposts, either on other planets, or within non-planetary space stations, so that we who were the last Earthlings could migrate and begin a new chapter of human culture.

He said that part of why he worked so hard, and for so many hours each week, was to make sure that when we Earthlings needed those space colonies, they would be in place, ready for us to continue our lives.

Very interesting if that was where your dad's research was. It seems we still have a long ways to go before that is possible.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very interesting if that was where your dad's
> research was. It seems we still have a long ways
> to go before that is possible.


The first step was us successfully landing on our moon, and then returning successfully to Earth, so that is what he was involved in.

It was a goal he had had since he was a boy growing up (in farm country, in eastern Washington state), and as an adult, he was able to fulfill this goal by (as it turned out) being on the team which designed the medical monitoring systems the astronauts wore (which transmitted continuous reports to Houston of each astronaut's heart rate, oxygen rate, temperature, etc.).

For my father, though, the ultimate goal was either Earth colonizing other planets, or Earth creating self-sustaining space stations capable of long-term human life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2018 11:34PM by Tevai.

That is fascinating science.

Robert Heinlein wrote about such possibilities in his sci-fi thrillers. He was the author who drew me into science fiction. 'The Cat who Walked Through Walls,' was the first book I read of his. After that I was hooked.

There hasn't been another sci-fi author I've read since though except for Orson Scott Card. And his I really only liked Ender's Game the best. Heinlein I didn't grow tired of reading.

My Mormon father was very adamant that the world would end by the year 2000, and it would definitely end before he did. He would be raptured up and never die. The gospel would continue to shine right out of his ass forever and ever.

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The gospel would continue to
> shine right out of his ass forever and ever.

:D

The main thing that always stuck in my head was something about our sins being broadcast/shown for all to see. :-( Pretty cruel to scare kids like that, I think.

Of course it was always going to be soon and so wonderful and we were chosen and special to be alive now etc.

I remember that! I was terrified.

THAT was a major source of nightmare fuel for me growing up!

We were taught to be prepared to die for our religion.

We had to go see a film as a family when I was a young child (it was a church wide mandate,) about a young boy who was executed for not denouncing his belief in Mormonism. The message was to be prepared because it was going to possibly happen to us too in our lifetimes, and be prepared to die for it.

I had nightmares over that. It wasn't about the end of the world, per se. But to be expected to die for the SCC, it might as well have been.

I grew up TBM in Southern California in the 60s and yes, we were taught the world would end soon, I remember many members saying the hippie movement, and the riots and murders and unrest of 1968 being the start of "The Tribulations."

We were told we would walk all the way back to Missouri. I remember the Bishop asserting the importance of his authority by insisting that if he told everyone in the Ward they must walk barefoot to Missouri, that no one had better show up for the trek with shoes. I also knew people who moved to the Kansas City Missouri area, or even just as close as they could get -- such as Oklahoma City, so they wouldn't have to walk as far.

My TBM sibling keeps a house in Kansas City where he lived for years. He was convinced the end times would happen in his lifetime, or that he wouldn't live long enough to see them because he might die prematurely.

I used to tell him it wasn't important when he lived, but how he lives that will determine how he is judged. We don't speak much these days.

He is uber TBM.

As I recall, most 'end of world' thoughts / ideas originated from the book of Revelations, I can't recall a single one so explicit from MORMON scripture, so:

other than the bible stuff, most MORMON thought was conjecture / spontaneously made-up, including the thought that Joey gets to personally judge everyone...

At my age the end of the world is fast approaching. It may be a few years away but I can definitely see it from here.

I think that I was more disappointed as a little girl when Jesus didn't make an appearance from the caretaker's shack at the cemetery where my brother and little sister are buried. My parents told us that Jesus' was watching over them there. So I pictured that he must have taken up residence inside the caretaker's shack, and was watching us from the window as we stood over our siblings graves. I kept glancing over there expecting to see him any moment step out to come over and speak to us.

The prayer we were taught as children also didn't really help to instill peace or inner security when we recited, "Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take." As well meaning as it might seem, it is really very frightful to a young child. Especially after having lost siblings at an early age.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The prayer we were taught as children also didn't
> really help to instill peace or inner security
> when we recited, "Now I lay me down to sleep. I
> pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die
> before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take."
> As well meaning as it might seem, it is really
> very frightful to a young child.

I thought this, too, when I was growing up--and I always wondered why adults wanted to scare children this way.


>Especially after having lost siblings at an early age.

This must have been very hard for you, Amyjo. I am sorry.

That the ‘time was at hand...’

And that even the prophets don’t know when that is.