Hello everyone,

I am writing in the hopes that your collective wisdom will give me insight into a problem that is eating me up inside.

Background (facts altered to remain anonymous):
I should start by saying that I have never been a member of the Mormon Church. Instead, I was raised as a tepid Anglican. I grew up in a small town in the middle of the country and had never even heard of Mormons until my early 30’s. My first encounter came when I moved to a community halfway across the country to take a job. The job was located in a community with a significant Mormon component (20%). My specialized training made me a good fit for the job and the family-oriented community was a good fit for ours. I have now been at this particular firm for more than a decade. I love my work. That part of the story is going well.

Our company employs a disproportionate number of Mormons (maybe 30%) compared to our general community. I have become a co-owner. Several but not all of the other owners are Mormon. One is, in fact, the local Bishop. When I joined this company, all those years ago, I was new to town and needed to set up a business. The fellow who is now the Bishop was kind enough to recommend his chartered accountant to me, another Mormon. This seemed reasonable and so I began using him. At first, all went well.

Recently, however, I discovered that my accountant has scammed me out of several hundred thousands of dollars. I took him to court and the judge agreed that he owed me the money. Normally, that would have been the end of it, or so I naively thought. However, I soon found out that it was now my responsibility and cost to enforce the collection.

The more my lawyers pressed forward with judgment enforcement, the more we encountered what can only be described as some sort of a Mormon Mafia. It turns out that this accountant, you see, is related by marriage, blood and the faith to many other prominent professionals and businessmen in our community. He is their Michael Cohen, their Fixer. Imagine my surprise and dread when I learned that he is closely related through marriage to my Mormon Bishop partner at the firm - the one who charmingly recommended him to me in the first place.

The more my lawyers dig, the more it appears that this accountant has laundered the missing money through other Mormons and possibly to other jurisdictions. I have to pay forensic auditors to unravel his cooked books. The cost of recovery seems destined to be greater than the recovery itself.

I am left in a quandary. How do I proceed? I need to think outside the box.

The police won’t help because I have already gone through the courts.

I could complain to his professional association and that would get his license revoked. But they have no power to direct re-payment. If I destroy his income stream, I lose all hope of future wage garnishment. I have thought long and hard on this and feel that my first priority must be a selfish initial attempt at recovery, my family is depending on it, and then secondarily to prevent him from hurting others<ethical dilemma>.

This is where I need your advice. I need to understand what I am up against. What haven’t I thought of? Is there truly such a thing as the Mormon Mafia and if so, what are its weaknesses?

Will his community cast him out or will they protect him and turn on me? Will Mormons with no direct interest in this make my work life unpleasant?

Is the sunshine offered by the press a good way to go? Will this blowback on me?

If I did decide to approach Church leaders in private (keep in mind that this is a risky strategy given that one of the chief conspirators may be one of them) would they listen? (Remember, I can’t make any direct threats as that would be blackmail and against the law.)

Any advice is greatly appreciated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2019 12:28AM by fleeced.

You expect to collect payment from someone who cooks books for a living? I think you can forget about getting your money back. If it makes you feel any better, many here on the board paid that kind of money to the church in tithing which they’ll never get back. At least your mind screw is less intense.

Mormons have a “get out of hell free” card, which makes for situational ethics. They are “good” for Jesus or the gerontocracy in SLC, not for their (not going to heaven) fellow human beings.

Image is important in the Mormon prosperity gospel. They will try to protect it. Fighting that may feed their persecution complex, which is a whole other level of weirdness in Mormon thinking. You will be the bad guy.

Agree with all you say, babyloncansuckit.

+1
For this reason I believe that TBM business people are less honest than the average business person.

I am assuming you are younger than what is considered "senior citizen age" in your state.

If, however, you DO qualify as a "senior citizen," you might be able to obtain legal assistance, and possibly some return on the monies you are out, under your state's Elder Financial Abuse laws.

If you think you might qualify, Google: Elder Financial Abuse, [name of your state].

Even if you are younger than the threshold age in your state, you might go talk to some of the resources which come up as result of your Google search. You won't have to pay for any of these conversations, and you might learn much which can be of real value to you in your situation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2019 01:11AM by Tevai.

Thank you for all of your replies. Yes, I am grateful that I am just out money and have not been emotionally damaged or "mind screwed" as some of you have put it.

I am not a senior citizen and so the elder abuse tact would not work. I have put liens on 9 companies, some property and two bank accounts ostensibly belonging to the accountant but the value comes back as $0. The problem is that as the books are cooked (everything is 99% mortgaged to a third party with no plans to repay) - I am left at a stand. I did pay for one audit already ($16,000) of his main company but that has led to nothing useful as the connected books belonging to his Mormon friends also seemed to have been cooked. I can continue down that road and likely will if I have to, but it proving very expensive.

I hear what you are saying about the FBI and bank fraud but that is not a great option for reasons I cannot disclose without revealing too much identifiable information. I am aware of it though and it was a very good suggestion I may pursue as a last resort.

I agree with the comment about "situational ethics" rather than a "mafia". So there is no official doctrine of playing outsiders for suckers, eh? I guess it was just the cavalier nature of this accountant, his open willingness to lie and the support of others that made me feel this way.

Summer writes "If the accountant scammed you, didn't he scam your other partners as well? -- including the Mormon bishop?". The answer in NO. He stole money from me in my own personal corporation, not the firm's. I have reason to believe that some of the money has been laundered into the Bishop's, my co-owners pocket, however. It would be difficult to call him out though because #1 that would need definitive proof or risk libel and #2 that would disrupt the firm I co-own leading to additional financial loss and general mayhem. Down the road that may be the nuclear option.

Mel writes: "your lawyer didn't tell you" - correct, rather disappointing that. In fact, if I were to be cynical about it, my own lawyers appear to be slowly bleeding me dry <cough>. This is why I took the extra ordinary step of posting on this board. I figured that if anyone understands the psychology on the other side it would be you. You have already helped.

I am reigned to continue my legal campaign for now but if I can think of a way forward outside of that, through the levers available above but without threatening anyone, that might lead to the quickest resolution.

I will try and find out where this Bishop is in the hierarchy. Maybe I am wrong in assuming that he is untouchable.

wow, sorry you are having to go through this.

"At least your mind screw is less intense." as babyloncansuckit told you. being a member and living with all the mind screw is horrible.

guess they really do have a "get out of hell" free card.

when my oldest son got murdered i found a mormon lawyer, the only one i could find in the area. being out of state and needing someone to handle his estate i felt lucky at the time to find him... he could not do the job, gave up and sent me a bill for $10k. he charged me $14 an hour in half hour increments for his secretary to read my emails.

there was not even 10k left in the estate for my grandson let alone to pay this jerk. i found his bishop who spoke with me and was very kind. he told me to send him a copy of the $10k bill and that was the end of that problem.

that jerk before he gave up on the case sent me a letter telling me it wasn't his fault my son got himself murdered.

i found a non mormon attorney that charged me a few hundred dollars to close the case and send my grandson a few thousand dollars.

these mormons are dangerous in every way. self-righteous _______s!

Find out who the stake president is or contact salt lake

Put liens on their assets.Make sure the community knows they're crooks. No libel. You proved your case.

If the accountant scammed you, didn't he scam your other partners as well? -- including the Mormon bishop?

I agree with KidTwist to put liens on their assets. Put a lien on the accountant's house, his bank account, his cars, his other toys, his tax return, and (one day) his Social Security payout. He may be paying a 10% tithe to the Mormon church -- I wonder if you can put a lien on that. And by all means go to his professional association and make a report. Go to the press. There are other innocent people using his services. Make life as difficult for him as you can.

Is there anything that he's done that would be of interest to the FBI? Did his crimes cross state lines in any way? Do you think he engaged in conspiracy with others? How about bank wire fraud? Also, I'm at a loss as to why a civil case would preclude a criminal case. The FBI might be able to give you some advice about that, or some entity that is above your local police.

I'm sorry that this happened to you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2019 08:59AM by summer.

File liens on his property in whatever county/ies he owns property in.

You do that with the judgment. Once the liens are filed you can then seize his assets by a Marshall's order.

It isn't so much a Mormon mafia per se. It's a "good old boys" club protecting their own against the world. This guy is in the inner club by virtue of who he knows and is related to. He likely pays big bucks to the LDS corporation. So that is how he has value to the corporation. Otherwise he wouldn't.

There is or was a Mormon mafia of sorts. My step-dad belonged to it when he was alive. That was years ago, and he was a Jack Mormon. He worked with the real mafia out of Las Vegas in his shady dealings along with his co-horts in crime (business partners back home in Utah.) He bragged about it to me after my mother died. I suspected it way back when they were dating, when I was in high school. His confessing it to me confirmed my suspicions.

The guy who fleeced you is a crook, and should have been prosecuted as one. Too bad the local DA didn't seize upon that case because where there's a flame there's fire. If he was doing that to you there are others he's stolen money from as well. He belongs behind bars. Usually they are so slick the money has either been spent or is in off shore accounts where you can't find.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2019 05:06PM by Amyjo.

A lot of good advice here, Summer and Amyjo obviously have a lot of knowledge and experience in this area.

It's one of the big fantasies that getting a judgment equals getting the money. In every state in which I worked YOU have to go after the money yourself, as is recommended here, filing in every single county individually. Follow Summer and Amyjo's advice.

I'm surprised your lawyer didn't tell you that it would be your responsibility to collect the money yourself from an unwilling defendant. You could try making a settlement offer to see if he would willingly pay even half of it but usually these guys have done this before and know how to get out of paying.

There is a word "judgment-proof" and the attorneys I worked with applied it to anyone worth less than several millions. We didn't even bother going after anyone with less. At least you can ruin his credit with lots o'liens on all his stuff. Amyjo and Summer have some great ideas here.

I disagree with your logic on reporting him to his professional association. I think you should do it because my personal opinion is you and your family will never see any of this judgment. But don't expect the professional association to automatically side with you. They might put him on probation for a few years or something minor. Most of those associations are a joke.

I agree there isn't a mafia, just the good-old-boys taking care of their friends. Lots of good advice here and it didn't cost you anything. Isn't the Board great!!!

Good luck!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2019 02:53PM by mel.

in b 4 ~


Mark Twain's "Roughing It" ~


Chapter 14 - "Mormon Contractors" ~


https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3177/3177-h/3177-h.htm#linkch14

Date: February 01, 2019 05:47PM
Re: Seeking advice - fleeced by the mafia

Thank you for all of your replies. Yes, I am grateful that I am just out money and have not been emotionally damaged or "mind screwed" as some of you have put it.

I am not a senior citizen and so the elder abuse tact would not work. I have put liens on 9 companies, some property and two bank accounts ostensibly belonging to the accountant but the value comes back as $0. The problem is that as the books are cooked (everything is 99% mortgaged to a third party with no plans to repay) - I am left at a stand. I did pay for one audit already ($16,000) of his main company but that has led to nothing useful as the connected books belonging to his Mormon friends also seemed to have been cooked. I can continue down that road and likely will if I have to, but it proving very expensive.

I hear what you are saying about the FBI and bank fraud but that is not a great option for reasons I cannot disclose without revealing too much identifiable information. I am aware of it though and it was a very good suggestion I may pursue as a last resort.

I agree with the comment about "situational ethics" rather than a "mafia". So there is no official doctrine of playing outsiders for suckers, eh? I guess it was just the cavalier nature of this accountant, his open willingness to lie and the support of others that made me feel this way.

Summer writes "If the accountant scammed you, didn't he scam your other partners as well? -- including the Mormon bishop?". The answer in NO. He stole money from me in my own personal corporation, not the firm's. I have reason to believe that some of the money has been laundered into the Bishop's, my co-owners pocket, however. It would be difficult to call him out though because #1 I would need definitive proof or risk libel and #2 that would disrupt the firm I co-own leading to additional financial loss and general mayhem. Down the road that may be the nuclear option.

Mel writes: "your lawyer didn't tell you" - correct, rather disappointing that. In fact, if I were to be cynical about it, my own lawyers appear to be slowly bleeding me dry <cough>. This is why I took the extra ordinary step of posting on this board. I figured that if anyone understands the psychology on the other side it would be you. You have already helped.

I am resigned to continue my legal campaign for now but if I can think of a way forward outside of that, through the levers available above but without threatening anyone, that might lead to the quickest resolution.

I will try and find out where this Bishop is in the hierarchy. Maybe I am wrong in assuming that he is untouchable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2019 05:56PM by fleeced.

Fleeced,

When I worked as a paralegal (I then went to grad school and got out, way out, of the legal field) I was continually shocked by the unethical things the lawyers would think nothing of doing to clients.

I would think very carefully about how much good money you want to throw on audits and additional lawyer fees. It appears you have taken good steps and maybe those liens will yield results or at least block your adversary from future actions.

Expecting ethical behavior by your attorneys and accountants is fine if you are sure their ethics correspond with yours. Just don't find out the hard way, that they don't!

Good luck, friend! Sorry that this hard life lesson happened to you!

Sadly, many of whom you’re turning to for help have covenanted in the temple to speak no ill of the “Lord’s annointed”—-which means another one of their temple-going cronies. I’ve even had a superior-court judge say, “We get in real trouble when we do that.”

The media will be your best help, IMO.

What a terrible thing to happen to you.

When I was young and naieve, I moved into Southern Utah. The first week I arrived, I was told by a group of farmers about a scam that had been foisted by the all-Mormon City Council.

This was way back, when I actually believed in America as a safe, honest place, where there was freedom and justice for all. Superman was my mentor after school, while I was growing up.

Well, the fact that respected Mormon leaders were getting away with conspiracy and using the power of the color of law to enjoy unfair advantages really, truly pissed me off.


I put a small ad in the local paper and notified the County that a meeting of honest citizens would occur the next Thursday night at 7pm in a small restaurant.

I had no idea if anyone would show up.

How do you think I felt when 37 men and women came? I was so thrilled that I presented the scam tomthem, and asked them to share any other evil crap that had occurred before my arrival.

For two hours we all sat and listened to serious bull that was like a silent cancer in the community. Evil that succeeds gets bolder over time, and takes over, due to collective cowardice.

At the end of the meeting I proposed that we scrape up some cash and start a tabloid that would fully expose the shady dedds of those mighty public servants.

$1,322.55 was collected. Two weeks later, I was driven in the back of an old pickup truch filled with fresh copies of Common Sense. I threw over 12,000 copies that were rolled up and rubber-banded, onto each and every lawn and business in the County.

The next election saw all of the men whose names appeared in that first issue swept out of office.

My name was Blacklisted on the church record, and that saved me from suffering from inspired calls to serve.

The press has tremendous power, but only if a few sweaty souls make use of it.

I hope you think about how potent a flyer would be.

Best Wishes!

RICO. Call in the FBI?

What kind of contract/business agreement have you signed as a part owner? Sounds like a major breach may have occurred, beyond the crap that's happened so far.

My first "professional" job in LA was with a mormon producer, who ducked and weaved in an effort to not pay me; I finally tracked him down to his house and demanded payment.