Hi folks. I would like to go down the path of talking to my siblings and try to have an open and honest discussion about the shady church history we all know about. However, I believe it is best for each person to take their own path, out of curiosity than to be bombarded with a bunch of gritty details that may cause them to put up defenses and see me as the bad guy.

In your opinion is there a good way to plant a subtle seed into my siblings' heads that will take root and cause them to think deeply and want to dig deeper and research the church more objectively?

I'm all ears and hope you have some gems for me.

Thanks.

I've never used it, But I always thought the "if the church was not what it claimed, would you want to know?" was a good approach.

You're not offering any "anti" information, or saying the beliefs are crazy, etc. And the answer you get will tell you what you want to know regarding fertile ground for planting seeds of doubt.

Yes, means you might actually be able to discuss issues, show them information, etc.

No. means they are comfortably numb in their ignorance and nothing you say will move them.

I don't mess with what my family members believe.

Yes. Use the Socratic Method.
Ask thought provoking questions and dont settle for cliches instead of real answers, that require actual reason.
It still applies.

Well it was unintentional, but my uber-TBM mother stumbled upon my copy of "an insider's view of mormon origins." She'd been a seminary teacher so thought she knew all about church history. She read it, showed my TBM Dad ( in bishoprics and stake presidencies several times.) They agonized for a couple months, then also left the church! None of us would ever have thought it was possible.

Wow Kerri! what an amazing and unexpected story!

One can plant a seed but if it isn't watered (curiosity, truly seeking, deep living) it will have no chance of growing in the thick weeds (lies) [clutches] of Mormonism.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think. (I read something like that here and liked it).


If the siblings are female, sometimes vague comments about women's issues in general can help them realize they are enabling suppression.


A discussion of why women enforce laws or practices on each other because "that's what they were taught" can come up from things like Catholic all male priesthood, burkas, and even female genital mutilation. Then a personal comment like how it feels wrong to you when men are designated (priesthood) as the primary decision makers, or head of household or leader of a church. It seems like they want male middlemen between women and God. A simple statement like, "You have to wonder why men interview (judge) women and children, but women don't insist on judging men in return to be equal."

For me, my husband mentioning he felt uncomfortable seeing me veil my face in the temple when he didn't have too. It got me thinking.

That said, information is everywhere. If people don't want to stop grazing and look up, they will never see the sky.

dagny Wrote:
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> You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think. (I read something like that here and liked it).

I think it was RPackham who coined the statement:

"You can lead a Saint to knowledge, but you can't make him think."

Thank you!

I've heard different versions of it. I definitely want to acknowledge who coined it here. RPackham's posts were top notch!

There are some who have had all the curiosity stomped out of them.

That's for sure. Its pretty ingrained in the deep seated members to "doubt their doubts" in other words, don't go digging, don't go looking, don't be curious.

Love the suggestions above!

Not long after leaving a sibling asked me why I left. At first I beat around the bush. They got a little demanding to know. I finally just dumped everything on them at once about Joseph Smith, Book of Abraham, DNA, etc. They said they would NOT want to know if it's not true. We both ended up in tears and our relationship has never been the same-in a bad way.

Personally I've had the best luck from just trying to be a decent person, respect other people's beliefs, and give simple answers when people ask me questions:

Question: Doesn't it bother you to not know what what is going to happen when you die?
Me: Not really. I don't believe any of us know for sure!

Both from my mistakes and watching others face this issue, I believe the best "curiosity" seed for family members and friends to see is an individual's happiness and life outside of the MormonCult.

Reminds me of a story concerning a grandchild who asked a favorite uncle where he had been when he arrived late to a Sunday family get-together. The uncle was looking sunburned and all smiles when he arrived and replied he was doing his favorite thing, skiing. My grandson was definitely paying attention as his family is not allowed to ski on a Sunday, and what 7 year old really likes attending a 3 hour block of church-sitting compared to having fun in the snow? Plus, this uncle engages with his nephews calling them by their names, is fun, and can be counted on to get a soccer game going EVEN when the day is Sunday.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2019 05:52PM by presleynfactsrock.

Don't mention the church. That only triggers the shields. come at the topic sideways.

Have the family read Guns Germs and Steel and discuss it. It destroys the premises of the BoM but never mentions the church.

Encourage them to look at Thomas Paines work Common Sense and eventually his Age of Reason...

Or even in a faithful vein, Rough Stone Rolling. My dads second wife read it and didn't believe a word of it. but its faith promoting history by LDS standards. Point out the members excommunicated in the 70s and 80s for saying what Rough Stone says.

Your post made me very curious about curiosity. I read some papers and what caught my eye is this from one of them that lists the key characteristics of very curious people:


1. THEY LISTEN WITHOUT JUDGMENT.

2. THEY ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS.

3. THEY SEEK SURPRISE.

4. THEY’RE FULLY PRESENT.

5. THEY’RE WILLING TO BE WRONG.

6. THEY MAKE TIME FOR CURIOSITY.

7. THEY AREN’T AFRAID TO SAY, “I DON’T KNOW.”
“It’s more important for them to learn than to look smart.”

8. THEY DON’T LET PAST HURTS AFFECT THEIR FUTURE.


I don't see those qualities as relating to the average Mormon mind set.

Those who aren't curious feel they have the answers already or that the issues aren't important. This does sound like the average Mormon mindset. They already KNOW. My mom for example says all the time she knows God chose Joseph so any negatives don't matter.

The only way I can think of to make someone curious then is to withhold information that they may want to know. Do not be forthcoming about what you have found, why you have left, but give them just enough to make them want more. Tease them with a mysterious tidbit. Like Gypsy Rose Lee, always keep the really good parts covered up. Make them beg to see it.

I could has a questioning believer 18 months from leaving, but trying to make it work (it took 5 years to leave). Now people just disbelieve. Even if I bring up something not entirely anti-mormon, I am still shut down.

The person who helped me start questioning was my TBM father in law SLC bishop. He mentioned the danger of ex-mormon literature and that a recnet general authority left over it. I was curious, found out about Hans Manson, and five years later I'm out.

As a non-believer, I could go with the Mormon way, let them see the light in your eyes. Build a happy life (if you can), and see that you are happier. Or maybe your not happier, I wasn't for a long time. But now that I'm happier I have more credibility. BUT DON'T FAKE HAPPINESS, you have nothing to prove to anyone.

Interesting list of characteristics of a curious person. Mormon cult characteristics place its members on the opposite, opposing end of this list.