Missionary under Dean Burgess from '98 - '00 in Belo Horizonte East Brazil. Was told on multiple occasions, don't write home what's going on because it'll be resolved by the time the letter is received. So I didn't. Two years long. Figured out how to collect call from pay phones just to hear family voices and when they answered I immediately hung up. Went on my mission straight out of high school. Yeah, when I got home I wasn't the sweet, cheery, happy go lucky kid they were expecting when I got home. I was a lot different. Not as in haven't seen you in a few years. As in I don't know you anymore. They didn't like a lot of what they sawc when I got home. I still am distrustful and guarded. I wasn't nearly that way before my isolation years. Not blaming all of it on my mission. But it was steroids to negative parts of my personality.
The announcement that kids can call home on missions is positive to me. But it makes me wonder how many people were isolated from social life and family and shamed from writing what was really going on.
I view Mormonism as a cult and is compensating today for what tactics no longer works. But at the same time I'm really glad missionaries can connect more with family on a mission because the mental health of kids is really not the priority to the greater dogma by old men in suits but survival of the organization.

during the past 50 years or so, is turning out to be a net negative for the Mormon Church.

(1) Most "converts" brought in by the missionaries go inactive very quickly.

(2) For many missionaries, the mission experience estranges the missionary from the church, rather than making the missionary love the church more. (This is because the reality never lives up to the hype and myths that they hear before going on the mission.)

(3) The missionary experience forces missionaries to frequently come face to face with skeptics, critics and people who don't give a flying fork about Joseph Smith and his golden plates. It's easier to keep people in the Emperor's New Clothes bubble of Mormonism when they're surrounded by like-thinking members of the Church. Out on the mission, the missionaries quickly learn that very few people are even aware of Mormonism and among those who know something about Mormonism, the majority of them think it's a joke.

Now, with the recent changes, it has been confirmed that the inhumane, cult-like policies that past missionaries were forced to suffer under were...well...not really necessary at all. So, even though it's a move in a nicer direction, it makes former missionaries feel like suckers and reveals that the Church is an organization run by uninspired executives (pretentiously calling themselves "prophets" and "apostles") who are constantly screwing up, but are too arrogant and proud to ever admit it.

Wally Prince Wrote:

> (1) Most "converts" brought in by the missionaries go inactive very quickly.

Yep. That was me, lasted around 16 months and none of the others stayed more than a month or two.

> Now, with the recent changes, it has been confirmed that the inhumane, cult-like policies that past missionaries were forced to suffer under were...well...not really necessary at all.

The Missionary who baptized me left early due to stress. Maybe phone calls would have kept him in.

But, is this a good thing? Because if the Missions are easier to tolerate, it means more kids staying in them longer or more signing up. Right? And that isn't good.

> makes former missionaries feel like suckers

Yes, I imagine so!

" . . . the isolation years." Yup. I felt like a zombie on my return.

I remember the pressure from the MP to only write faith promoting letters to family. We didn't get any phone calls on my mission at all. Period.

What was going on was nobody wanted to talk to us, to hear our message. What was going on was the competition between most of the elders. What was going on was extreme pressure from the MP to make him look good to the G.A.s he was reporting to.

I was acting against my own instincts. They warned us against being the "natural man" who was an enemy to god. Well they made that happen. There was nothing natural---or good-- going on my mission except the beautiful people from the country---and their fantastic food!


Very important post you have written here transylvania. I take it you gave found your natural self again. Hope a lot of kids thinking of missions read it.

Done & Done Wrote:

> What was going on was the competition between most of the elders.

What was the competition for?

> They warned us against being the "natural man" who was an enemy to god.

What the heck is a natural man? And if he's the enemy, is the "UNNATURAL" man a friend to god?

In Mormonism a calling often defines you. Making Bishop is like winning an Oscar and ups your status. On my mission, making District Leader was good, but Making Zone leader was critical for a lot of Elder's egos. Making AP was off the charts. Thus the competition to prove who was the most spiritual giant. Young, guy/testosterone/ego/indoctrination. Nice combo.

There is a caste system in Mormonism.

When I was young I heard the phrase quoted often, "The natural man is an enemy to God." This basically meant that only acting as the Mormon leaders dictated could be acceptable to god. So yes, God likes his men 'unnatural." I guess that means God also likes Monsanto. And, preservatives. :)

Done & Done Wrote:
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> In Mormonism a calling often defines you. Making Bishop is like winning an Oscar and ups your status.

This explains a lot. It explains when there was a member of the Bishopric present all of a sudden whatever class or meeting I was in would become supercharged--everybody competing to teach or answer or participate and show off scripture knowledge the best!!!

> There is a caste system in Mormonism.

Yes, thank goodness RfM clued me in about that because I kept wondering what was wrong with ME! Had I known about that system would have saved me a lot of time and money! :) No sense in trying when you aren't "born" into royalty, right?

So no matter how devout or energetic in callings, converts will just not be selected into the leadership ranks, right? Do they ever become apostles or bishops that you know of?

> yes, God likes his men 'unnatural." I guess that means God also likes Monsanto. And, preservatives.

And no s*x, or thinking about s*x, or watching s*x on the net. Yep, VERY unnatural!!!

transylvania Wrote:
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> I was a lot different.... I still am distrustful and guarded.

Hello Transylvania,

Just wondering, was it the experience as a whole or specific things that made you this way?

Thank you for your post!

Mel

I only had high school to draw on for life experiences. Didn't know who I was or what I wanted. All of my social interactions were suddenly reduced to pious, serious religious activity.
Mission president adminished against telling family and friends what was going on. In no way could I leave the mission being the only son and a second generation immigrant family - my dad immigrated as a 4 year old from Denmark. I felt completely trapped and alone and desolate. These feelings were pushed out and ignored for 2 years. So, maybe I already had a lot of these negative traits but they weren't evident before my mission. When I got home I was a lot different. I didn't want to go back to who I was before the mission because I didn't feel anything like that kid and I wasn't going to play by conventional rules of someone telling me what was best for my welfare anymore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 09:14PM by transylvania.

Transylvania,
Your Grandpa wouldn't happen to be the Danish guy who was in the Mormon Tabernacle Choir by any chance?

I met a really nice Danish guy - I think he had a printing shop in Utah somewhere - at the dedication of the Nauvoo temple. Only choir member I ever met personally, as I am from the southeast.

I liked the call home twice a year rule. Actually, I didn't want to call that much. I emailed every week, all happy stories because I was happy.

In fact, I was far less isolated from my family on my mission then afterwards. Now I isolated myself, family causes too much pain. Even before leaving the church, I just didn't like them as people.

So I liked the rules. But I know some people don't hate their families.

Guy3 Wrote:
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> Now I isolated myself, family causes too much pain.

Interesting. Probably the same reason some join the military, to get away from families.

I asked that question when they talked about being with your family for eternity, during the Missionary lessons before Baptism. I said, what if you don't like your family? They were dumbfounded.

Welcome Guy3, I think you will find others here who can relate.

I knew several missionaries that were going home and never planned on returning to the church. It wasn't even a testimonial issue, it was about suffering church burnout. 7 days a week with the same routine with the same brutal weather (hot summers). Then a never ending Sunday (two ward meetings, two missionary correlation then a missionary themed fireside). P-day was a small diversion, but it started the same way with laundry, shopping and playing hours of basketball.

One guy that was getting ready to "go home" told me, "Look Goop. For 2 years the church has had every minute of my life. I want it back. I am going to take a break for 6 months. I don't ever want to see a church building again."

The missionaries that had the most issues were the bown-nosing zone and district leaders. A bunch of them had severe anger management issues. They were the ones suffering mental breakdowns and attacking people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 11:29AM by messygoop.

messygoop Wrote:

> Then a never ending Sunday (two ward meetings, two missionary correlation then a missionary themed fireside).

Would there be firesides that often? There was only one in the year I was there. So that is yet another activity dropped.

Unbelievably, there were scheduled baptisms every Sunday. We were bringing them into the church. With two different zones sharing the same baptismal font, there were always baptisms that you had to hang around for. Sometimes, the sister missionaries would leave and we would have to leave too. The sisters were our transportation to our apartment. In the middle of all this organized "Sunday" rest, we were supposed to get off our duffs and "teach" a first discussion. We just learned to undercount our Saturday numbers and recount it for Sunday. They didn't want to hear there wasn't time to meet new people. And you would get royally ratted on if you "skipped" a church meeting. It was the local ward leaders that called up our MP to complain. "There's no missionaries at our service today."

messygoop Wrote:
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> Unbelievably, there were scheduled baptisms every Sunday.

Wow. Lots different today! And the Missionaries only attend the convert baptisms, don't know if that has changed, because I went to one 8-year-old and the Missionaries weren't there at his.

So things have either changed or my ward with one every 2-3 months is just a very very hard sell.

It was a different era of the church. No internet to fact check. There were some church activities that **could be interesting.

There was a time that I wanted my non member friends to join. I'm glad that I didn't push them and now I enjoy them without the millstone of the church.

What I think started to squash the appeal was when the church started getting heavy handed on their policies.

-No more cooking in the kitchen
-No borrowing of church chairs and tables (for a church function)
-Fooling around with primary programs
-Making benign activities like a ward campout all spiritual

Then they made a war on homosexuality through that damn proclamation BS.

The church upped it's legalism in the 1990s and it became more rooted in archaic rules.

I left the church just before GBH delivered his now-famous "The church does a lot of non-spritual crap and I will justify it through my talk."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 04:23PM by messygoop.

mel Wrote:
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> messygoop Wrote:
>
> > Then a never ending Sunday (two ward meetings,
> two missionary correlation then a missionary
> themed fireside).
>
> Would there be firesides that often? There was
> only one in the year I was there. So that is yet
> another activity dropped.

I think so. There were both stake and Salt Lake firesides. If the topic was for singles and dating, then we (missionaries) were told to get lost. There were lots of them along with study programs like Know Your Religion. These programs went away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 12:03PM by messygoop.

messygoop Wrote:

>If the topic was for singles and dating, then we (missionaries) were told to get lost. There were lots of them along with study
> programs like Know Your Religion. These programs went away.

Yep. Never heard of any of that. The only fireside that I heard of was the one time I went and it was for Christmas season.

When I was a wee young laddie, living in the bosom of Mormonism, I thought missionaries ONLY went to foreign countries, because all the young men in my ward did so. And I never saw a missionary serving in my ward or stake. What helped make me accept this view was that WE were all missionaries! Every Member A Missionary!