They predicted Armageddon would happen in 1918. Again in 1975. When that didn't occur either, then it was 2005. Their rationale for it not occurring any time is they must not be ready yet. Since they'll be the only ones left after the rest of us poor blokes will be wiped off the face of the planet.

They refuse to allow divorce even when the husband (or wife) is a spousal abuser. In a ID program this a.m. the elders blamed the husband's anger issues on the wife. Because she'd been born into Jehovah Witnesses and so utterly brainwashed by it, she succumbed to whatever was demanded of her. Her first husband wasn't as much of a believer so they let her out of that marriage. The 2nd husband conned his way into the marriage by pretending to be religious until they married. It was then his Jekyll and Hyde personality manifest. But the JW brethren insisted the wife still could not leave the marriage and must endure the abuse.

She escaped eventually to a friend's house along with her children one day while he was in the shower. He hunted her down like a predator then shot her point blank before turning the gun on those step-kids. And still, the effing JW elders said and did nothing. Not even at the funeral to condemn his actions.

However ... the woman's ex-husband, the one who'd left JW because he was disfellowshipped for not being "faithful" enough ... he went to grieve and pay his respects to his children and the mother of his children. Not a single effing JW sitting around him before the funeral services, during, or after, got up to shake his hand, give him a hug, talk to him, or offer him condolences. Because?

They were shunning him - even at his own family's funeral. I thought how awfully cruel. Even Mormons wouldn't be that cruel, or would they?! Flashback to my niece at TBM bro's funeral last fall, and I still don't know why she was so rude. But hey, I took the high road and broke the ice recently. Because she may be a moron, but I'm not. And my brother wasn't either. And that's how I wish to remember him and not have her try to ruin the funeral for his only sister. If she was shunning me, she failed miserably. :o)

But that poor JW mother with children. She had just gotten to that point in her life like many of us ex-Mos have, where she was beginning to question her religion. Her shelf had cracked because of all the lies and distortions she was being fed. And a controlling abusive husband that JW told her she must put up with. She was ready to walk. It was during that transition for her in her life when the abuser realized he could no longer control her, that he murdered her. Why those poor children, there are no answers other than what the police said themselves that the guy is nothing but an evil sociopath who blindsided a trusting, innocent woman.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2019 10:59AM by Amyjo.

That is so awful; so sad. IMO, I think that Mormons,JW's, etc are all oppressive and suppressive. I think that it starts when we are born, and no matter who we are born to, it's drilled into our heads that you are not good enough; obey, obey, obey! I'm not saying that this is the case with everyone, but I think it is with a lot of people, and world wide. The challenge to breaking away from this is being able to "re-wire" your thinking. When you can change your thinking, you are free to have self-esteem; when you have self-esteem, you are not so vulnerable to those who would do you mental harm.

She was just at that point, at the cusp to break away from the craziness that had been her life up until then. When the jackass who'd conned her into marrying him, murdered her and her children.

In her mind, at least, she was breaking free of the mental prison that Jehovah Witnesses had embodied for her all her life.

Where his I don't think he ever will. He's trapped inside his own living hell.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2019 11:44AM by Amyjo.

I hope he gets the chair, or at least life without parole. Is he shunned now for breaking a commandment? Do the JWs visit him in prison too? He IS in prison, isn’t he?

He is in prison up in British Columbia. He was sentenced to life, eligible for parole after 25 years.

With Canadian law he could be released if parole were to pardon him. But he's still locked up. He is such a sociopath he only shows contrition when it works in his favor.

He had no reason to murder those little stepchildren even if he killed in the heat of passion his wife. But he didn't do that either. The killings were planned and premeditated.

He'd molested his stepdaughter up until his wife had left him. She didn't know about that at first until the little girl came to her mom and told her. The guy is a monster. The little girl and her brother watched him murder their mom. Then she clutched her teddy bear as he shot her next. Her little brother tried to protect her by putting his arms around her, until he was shot last. They were both like under ten years old.

Jehovah Witnesses were more willing to give the cold blooded murderer a pass than they were the first husband whom they shunned.

The children's father said that JW talked nothing about the loss of his family at the funeral. But how they can rejoice together in the 144,000 heaven or some such nonsense, while turning their backs on those kids father who was in deep mourning and bereavement at their funeral.

What asses. I'll never look at them the same again. I didn't care for them before, and now I despise them. They make a mockery of Christianity.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is in prison up in British Columbia. He was
> sentenced to life, eligible for parole after 25
> years.
>
> With Canadian law he could be released if parole
> were to pardon him. But he's still locked up. He
> is such a sociopath he only shows contrition when
> it works in his favor.

Our system is maddening at times. The sentences often seem far too short for the crime committed, such as this. We frequently say "If this happened in America..." (...the perp would be given 99 years...). What they call "life" here is the 25 years, which is an insult to family members of victims who have lost their lives. But fortunately, things seem to be getting tougher. At times we haven't had the mandatory 25 years before the first chance at parole. And now it's doubtful that parole would be granted in many cases after that relatively short period of time, if the crime were sufficiently severe which by definition (life sentence) it undoubtedly would be.


> The children's father said that JW talked nothing
> about the loss of his family at the funeral. But
> how they can rejoice together in the 144,000
> heaven or some such nonsense, while turning their
> backs on those kids father who was in deep
> mourning and bereavement at their funeral.

Yes, this is appalling. To focus strictly on the beliefs for our purposes here, they wouldn't be likely to state that they would all be rejoicing in heaven, as they don't believe that. I can't quite recall but, like Mormons I think, as well as other faiths, children are deemed "righteous" until the age of majority and so they would be in heaven (or in the case of JWs, on the Paradise earth).


> What asses. I'll never look at them the same
> again. I didn't care for them before, and now I
> despise them. They make a mockery of Christianity.

Well, can you blame every JW for the most egregious actions of one member, or think they are all the same? Hope not. The only group-wide responsibility, in my view, would be sitting still for injustice which, true enough, does occur. But even as a faithful JW, which I was for seven years, I would be indignant at being blamed for the bad actions of another JW. Not even their theology, which multitudes of non-JWs despise, condones such despicable behaviour. Local leaders may overlook it or fail to act due perhaps to not knowing what to do, but they don't teach that such acts are OK, obviously, although I can't say they wouldn't hide things in a misguided attempt to protect the organization.

To me, it's the same as blaming all humans for the bad acts of some. We can't control the vast majority of humanity or even our closest neighbour. We can only do our best to put good things out into the world. I hope I'm not blamed if my neighbour acts badly.

Although, there is definitely something to be said for withdrawing support for any group or endeavour that is fatally lacking in basic decency, as a low bar of expectation.

Perhaps it was the way the tv series depicted Jehovah Witnesses on Investigation Discovery with this episode. Because JW definitely was an ENABLER for the MURDERER while it provided no compassion for the victim or victim's family & loved ones.

It highlighted what is wrong with not only the mindset of a narcissistic sociopath, but that they tend to go hand in hand with cults.

You could watch this episode and change the cults from JW to Mormonism to Scientology, etc. They are enablers to this type of psychotic behavior. That was a takeaway from the program.

It was the way not only the ex-husband was shunned, but the victimized wife was treated by JW during the time she went back and forth to her abusive husband because JW would tell her that was her "duty," and it disgusts me all the more. There is nothing left for me to respect about JW after watching that program. It helped to facilitate the murder of that mother and her young children through its brainwashing and dogma it used to control her every move. Her husband used JW to con his way into her life. And JW allowed him to continue conning her even after they'd been told of his domestic abuse and his sexual abuse of her nine-year old daughter. They still told her that her duty was to stay with him. That was when her shelf cracked. And that was when she was murdered.

She had been born and raised a Jehovah Witness, and had watched her mother be a doormat basically all her life because women obeyed whatever their husbands tell them to do. She was told to obey her husband no matter what, and never question him. Even when he raped her.

I guess that included his molesting her little girl too, because JW turned a blind eye to the child molestation also.

In some respects it isn't all that different from Mormonism in how it views or treats women.

She was dehumanized before her bastard husband ever pulled the trigger, not just by him but by her church.

Ah... there is a book about that case. I reviewed it a few years ago and now people are finding my review today. I wondered why that was. Mystery solved.

This is my review.

https://theovereducatedhousewife.blogspot.com/2016/02/father-literally-loses-family-to.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2019 12:30PM by knotheadusc.

Oh wow, that would explain it.

One of the detectives on the program mentioned this morning that he was looking for any sign of contrition from the killer. Instead the moron blamed his wife for making him murder her and then her children. It was all her fault that she sent him into such a rage that he moved across the street from where she moved to get away from him. And then planned and premeditated their murders. All.her.fault.

That reasoning alone should be enough proof for the parole board that he should never get out of prison. Makes me wonder where the other bodies are buried he got away with ?

I have a cousin who was a JW for awhile. He and his family left when the leaders wanted to appoint a child molester to a position of authority.

One of my Mormon cousins joined JW during the 1970's for a few years. It did him more good than being a Mormon had. But then he dropped that too. I think music and doing his own thing was his religion toward the end of his life. He was an artist, poet, singer, cowboy, and a gentleman.

He used to sell his oil paintings in Jackson Hole, Wyoming when he was a young man. He was very talented. He got messed up a little too much in drugs and booze (the 70's scene,) which is what preceded the JW stint. His wife was a lovely lady. A real pretty blonde they were together for quite a long time. They remained friends I believe for life even after going their separate ways.

He had the personality of an artist, not so unlike Van Gogh. He was just an independent loner and a bit of a philosopher. His family loved him so much. It was such a big loss when he died.

For him JW gave him some much needed help to clear his head. I'm glad though he didn't stay stuck there for very long. :)

Within the scheme of JW super righteous heaven, where do the victims go? Are children under a specific age guaranteed heaven?

I don't know because I never took the time to study JW. When those missionaries came to my door I sent them away. They believe only 144,000 will inherit the kingdom of heaven. That doesn't leave very much room for little children.

Heaven and Christianity in my book is a helluva whole lot more benevolent than that kind of Christianity, or even mainstream Christianity thinking.

Christ didn't really condemn anyone. He came to save the sinners as he said. The well had no need of him. He would say there was more hope for the sinner than the pharisees and the self-righteous hypocrites. Because at least they were humble and meek in heart. Which basically meant they were teachable.

JC suffered little children to come to him and that we all be like them - which when I look at old and senile people in nursing homes - well it's nature's way of bringing us back full circle. By the time we get that old, senile, or childlike who the heck cares anyway what anyone thinks?

Live, love, laugh, be happy. A photo of my late brother as a newlywed just popped up on my computer from his BYU Provo days more than 40 years ago. Boy, was he a handsome guy. Those 40 years flew by. I'm happy that he was married to someone he loved for those 40 years. Because one morning last fall he just didn't wake up. He tried, but he stopped breathing. His light went out.

I can say he loved and was loved. I just wished he was still here. My TBM relatives are like the JW they say "Oh no worries, he's in heaven now." Which even I believe that. Maybe they grieve too, in their own private ways.

I believe we'll meet again. But hope to God not as Mormons. If God wanted us all to be Mormons there would be no diversity, and there would be no need to proselytize, because we'd all be the same. God must like diversity because he created a very diverse planet. Not to mention cosmos.

According to JWs, only the 144,000 go to heaven. (They self-identify during life on earth - we knew who was one of the 144K or not - most are not, obviously).

The rest of "the righteous" (aka JWs) will live in Paradise Restored on earth. IOW, everything will eventually go back to the way God intended it to be in the first place.

As a trusting, naive, Paradise-yearning teen, that appealed to me and, having left home before finishing high school and eventually boarding with a JW lady that I came to love, I ended up joining the WatchTower Society. Got out after seven years when reality clashed with JW belief. I was/am shunned - you can't leave without the most severe consequences - to them that is to be cut off. Fortunately, my non-JW family was thrilled and supportive that I was out. I did miss a few friends that I was fond of and I did feel embarrassed, worrying that people would think badly of me. Eventually, as one matures, the fear of the disapproval of others lessens. I missed some people for a long time but they were all such "good" JWs they never tried to contact me or stay friends. That hurt. I regret that part of it but not the leaving.

The idea of Paradise Restored was very appealing to me and seemed the way things should be. If one had the power, I thought (as God does, if you believe that) why would there be suffering through the ages. I like the idea of Paradise returning way better than suffering through life and then going to heaven. I don't see the point of that, or the mercy.

So, still I say, JW beliefs make more sense to me than Mormonism does. They are far simpler and straightforward. I found Mormonism so convoluted and mysterious, in that they took pains to NOT teach prospects or converts their doctrine, whereas JWs want and expect you to know theirs prior to baptism. What a difference!

As for this murderous husband, yes, appalling. I wouldn't, though, draw absolute conclusions about all JWs or even the WT Society based on his perverted actions. True enough though, they are rigid about divorce, sexist as hell, untrained in counselling (like Mormon leaders), lacking in compassion, and one of their greatest concerns is protecting the organization rather than any individual member.

I have mentioned several times through the years my experience with a former friend who I boarded with when we were missionaries in Quebec. He married an older woman who had a young child (after about two dates, as JWs do) and ended up being abusive towards the child. It was so bad that I went against all JW convention and reported it to the "elders" (men not much older than us - unusual overall but not in that area) who said it wasn't their concern but was a "private matter". Everybody knew that he was abusive (he would even drag the poor child down the aisle during meetings and "spank" (beat) him outside, with no consequences). I also spoke to his wife and said it was no way to treat her boy. (He beat the kid every morning because he wet the bed. I woke up every single morning to the kid shrieking in fear and then being whacked). His wife's only response to me? "He's my husband". After just a few days of it, I left their home. There was absolutely NO indication previously that this popular, attractive, educated young man would turn out to be a child abuser.

I thought at the time that as there were no older adults about it was a case of maybe nobody knowing how to handle it, so they did nothing. Not that that excuses it.

Definitely the beliefs and the culture within the organization can lead to drastically negative outcomes and quietly unhappy adherents, or worse.

Still, as I've also mentioned, I was much happier as a JW than I ever was as a Mormon. To me, the doctrines are 100% set out and comprehensible, not convoluted and withheld. That alone did my head in as a Mormon - the feeling of never knowing what was up. As a JW I had far more good relationships and enjoyable times than as a Mormon, when I felt like extra unwanted baggage once I took the dip in the font. A problem, in fact, because I asked questions, which are strongly discouraged, as we know. I just found Mormonism and the people weird, in oh so many ways.

That is my experience. Obviously, others will have different takes on it all.

So, I knew of the one incident of abuse, in all the people I met and got to know and in the several congregations I was part of. I found the people much friendlier and more personable to me than Mormons were (after my baptism).

Undoubtedly, there are many ex-JWs who had a much rougher time than I did and who were damaged by their association with the WT Society. I never felt the need to visit an ex-JW board. I did, however, badly need to search and find out about Mormonism, and get some support after my three years as a so-called Mormon convert, and here I still am.

Their thinking is so messed up. Murdered your family? Meh. That's okay. Turn your back on us? Watch out. I hope the prisoners turn on him every day and make his life a living hell every minute. There goes my kindness and patience right out the window.

Mine too, mine too.

There's a hierarchy in prison systems. Child molestors are at the bottom. Child killers are at the bottom of the bottom.

There is a very plain explanation for the equality of wackiness in the two cults.

Both were set on foot by Illuminati blood-line Freemasons.

Charles Taze Russell, founder of the Watchtower Society, later went on to put the nefarious Skull and Bones together at Yale.

The two scams have very similar stories because they are close Masonic cousin-cults.

A couple Russells were in on setting up Operation LDS.

That ilk have proved to be masters of the secret arts of manipulating the minds of men and milking them.

They had an eye for sock-puppets and chose Holy Joe.

You know how common Freemasonry used to be? Very common, especially in the days before welfare checks and that kind of support.

What are these "Illuminati blood lines"? Merovingians? Because if so MILLIONS of people fall into the category of Merovingian descendants. Something like 12 million, probably including you and me. On the other hand, we can't even trace Joe Smith's ancestry back to the Old Country... Say what you like about Jos Smith but he was never one for taking orders from other people.

Do you realize how common the surname Russell is? It's REALLY common. It may not be as common as Smith but it's nothing special. I keep getting mail for a Ms Russell who lives a couple of streets away. Is she in on the conspiracy?

Jdubs have their issues. I once asked them if they are dispensationalists or hold the medieval concept of the millennium. Which is that there is only heaven and hell and nothing else in the future. And the missionary told me that their view is that heaven starts when Jehovah shows up and they don't really know or believe anything else.

For a church that is trying to save a lost world. They don't seem to have any answers. Answers that I think are clearly there in the bible? But then again I'm a dispensationalist in my thinking.

Then their bit about not standing up for life or liberty. and refusing to support the defense of their country. That is an immature policy from an immature religion. But yet they parade around going door to door like they are the big cheese, but they are cowards.

To do that kind of public missionary work required cojones (as it does in the LDS. Misguided? Maybe, cowardly no.

Also their anti-war stance is not cowardly. Many JWs have gone to prisons and to the death in concentration camps to defend that principle. That's not cowardice. (That's before we get into the cynical reasons most wars are fought for.)

* The blood thing. The LDS may have a health code, but not anything like this which will kill you.
* They don't recognize secular courts. While the Mormons prefer to keep things in-house, they do co-operate with the authorities to some extent.
* Every JW is required to witness to non-members for at least an hour every week. LDS say "every member a missionary", but it is possible to be an active member and not have to do that all the time.
* JWs discourage college/university altogether (all courses).

On these scores, the JWs come out worse than the LDS. What about the reverse?

* JWs don't support war mongering or aggressive nationalism.
* Their current policy of standing around with carts is inoffensive to me.
* Their donations/tithing structure is less aggressive and apparently unmonitored.

specialties in the field of religious nuttiness.

I agree their current policy of standing quietly in public places with pamphlet stands is a less intrusive proselyting tactic than the wacky missionary program used by the LSD church.

The money angle is probably the clearest example of an area where the LSD Church is quite a bit worse. The LSD Church is all about squeezing as much money out of the members as possible.

They both have more than their fair share of failed prophecies and abandoned doctrines.

with growing up. But I've been out and about long enough to know that the Mormon church is definitely not the worst of the worst when it comes to horrible religions and belief systems. It's maybe in the lower 30% of bad belief systems and controlling organizations. And it's become a lot milder than it was under Brigham Young.

The LSD Church under Nelson seems to be about two orders of magnitude less benighted than the JWs (even though they sometimes seem like twins separated at birth). During the worst times under Brigham Young, the LSD Church was still not quite up to the nastiness that some of the Islamic fundies of today get up to.