Do middle class Mormons view and treat working class Mormons differently? Class differences within subcultures are interesting to discuss.

I would say it is part of the human condition to be very aware of hierarchy. We always know as we navigate society who has more or less than us. Those with less self esteem depend on their social standing to feel good about themselves. This need to be seen as part of the elite does serve a purpose to propel our drive to succeed. Also tends to feed an unhealthy ego.

Religion pretends to level the playing field by placing more importance on actions and kindness. Humility is stressed and riches are demeaned---"eye of needle" and all that jazz. This, even as they ask for you money.

But Mormons, insinuate constantly that God rewards through prosperity. Sometimes this is taught flagrantly, and other times just hinted at. I have heard people brag in testimony meetings as to being blessed financially because of their righteousness.

The caste system is alive and well in Mormonism. Money, family history especially being related to Smith, social status, profession, and if your kids went on missions. The bottom? I guess gays although women are giving the gays a run for their money for that level of treatment.

Imagine the status of a celibate, single mother, Lesbian, who has to work every other Sunday, and lives in a rental unit...

Imagine filming that movie!

elderolddog Wrote:
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> Imagine filming that movie!

Peter Pan?
https://affirmation.org/maude-adams-mormon-lesbian-and-the-broadways-first-peter-pan/

Done,

Good insights.
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> Those with less self esteem depend on their social standing to feel good about themselves.

Ouch! True though!!!

> Religion pretends to level the playing field by placing more importance on actions and kindness.

Yes. Operative word "pretends"

> people brag in testimony meetings as to being blessed financially because of their righteousness.

Ugh. And of course it was all through their own "effort' and "righteousness" nothing to do with the advantages conferred upon them by birth, family, beauty, etc.

>The bottom? I guess gays although women are giving the gays a run for their money for that level of treatment.

Oooh, I was way lower being a woman AND a convert! And sadly not knowing my 'untouchable' status until I had been 'put in my place' by snotty 'born-in' treating me like crap. I was so naive, thinking people would take me as I came.

I think a party of the gays, converts, and singles would be a lot more fun than any sacrament meeting!

There is a list that a previous bishop made. It is quite hilarious to read unless you are a believing mormon. I sent it to my still active mormon sister and she couldn't stop laughing. We are the bottom group. I can't remember what they call it.

Here it is:

Mormon Royalty
Writen by a Former Bishop:

Our family has moved a fair amount as a result of job promotions involving relocations to other cities. One of the things that we have noticed is that each ward and stake has it's own royalty as well as a middle class and of course the "less fortunate fringe". When you move into a strange ward, you are quickly classified into one of the groups and there is little chance of ever being elevated to another group although downgrading is possible. Any outward indication or confession of a personal or family problem justifies immediate downgrading. To achieve royalty status, one needs to have at least several of the following traits in their favor:
1. Personal Wealth (tithing numbered in minimum 5 digits preferred)
2. Pedigree (Descendants of polygamous ancestors)
3. University Education (BYU grads score top points here)
4. Professional status (Doctors, dentists, lawyers, or Church Education System...CES types can be forgiven their lack of wealth)
5. Utah like grooming and accent
6. Large gregarious family
7. Evidence of embarrassing fully Mormon culture...language, tardiness, music, dress standards, FHE
8. Relatives or at least friends in high places
9. An LDS Track record: Mission, temple marriage, etc.
10.Absolutely no hint of being a real person with real problems
11.the ability to sound incredibly sincere and to bring tears to your eyes almost at will

The Mormon Middle class may have some of the traits of Mormon Royalty, but are marred with such horrible defects as:

1. Witnessed drinking cola in public
2. Rooted for the University of Utah over BYU
3. Once received Church welfare or worse still public welfare
4. Stayed home to watch the Superbowl instead of attending Church meeting
5. Wife works outside the home
6. Kids don't attend seminary
7. Too many non member friends
8. Failure in a church calling
9. Unglamorous employment (factory worker, tradesman, sales clerk, etc.)
10.Convert of less than 10 years
11.Loud laughter

Then of course we have the fringe element, the poor bastards that everyone else can look down on thank God that they are so much better than the they are. The following are some qualifying traits:

1. Low economic status regardless of reason
2. Lack of formal education
3. Too much formal education coupled with independent thinking thus qualifying as a hated intellectual
3. Facial hair, unconventional hair cut, or the dreaded tattoo
4. A foreign accent
5. any hint of homosexuality
6. Mormon Fundamentalist views or sympathies
7. Read the SL Tribune instead of Deseret News
8. Non traditional modes of dress, men with ear rings or women with piercing in nose, eyelid, etc.
9. Buy lottery tickets
10.Question authority or ask embarrassing questions in a church class

It's interesting that as you move around that you can be perceived and categorized differently but there is almost no chance of any elevation if you stay in one place.

Royalty usually serve as Stake Presidents, Relief Society Presidents, Bishops, etc. The Middle Class are the ward clerks and Primary teachers, while the fringe are entrusted with such Holy responsibilities as Ushering. Occasionally a sincere Church leaders experiments with calling persons to positions above their class level and usually discover that they do just fine. However, the royalty types are generally very uncomfortable with the practice so it is seldom resorted to by those in authority.

A former Bishop from Canada

cl2:

Great list. I wish I had made my login name "Less Fortunate Fringe" -- Love it!!!

I think he's left a few things off the list such as convert status being at the bottom, and marital/number of offspring or lack of them, also contributing, but it definitely shows how churchthink works.

Thanks, CL!

In my part of the world, LDS converts tend to be either working class or lower middle class. Very rarely upper middle or upper class.

I think the main problem in US politics these days is the lack of discussion on class. Rich liberals don't want to discuss it as it shows them up as right wing phonies.

JLoDS Wrote:
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> In my part of the world, LDS converts tend to be
> either working class or lower class.

Yes I saw that also. Many didn’t even have cars. Lots of heavy smokers or men who didn’t own a suit. I felt sorry for them and hoped they didn’t donate. Most came a few times and then left.

Race/ethnicity is the defining class structure in my ward, though that often correlates to economic status.

Whites at the top of the pecking order, followed by Asians and Latinos (owning to the fact that their own language wards/branches lead them to leadership positions), and blacks at the very bottom.

There isn't outright, public racism, but it blatantly manifests itself in the social sphere, including dating.

Yes in my area of 50% black demographic there was one black family who came and they were not in leadership position.

I don’t know about dating.