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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
I'm currently scanning a lot of old documents that I've printed on paper during the old times when large discs weren't available for private persons.
Some of these documents are from the late 1990's but still good, IMHO, some twenty years later, so I'm not just discarding them but scanning them in now that I have several large terabyte discs. So here's one of those good texts, maybe somebody finds it useful.
And - 'Frodo' in memoriam.
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How did we ever fall for it? When you look at it from outside, it's all very silly. :-)
Posted by Frodo on February 23, 1999 at 18:27:34:
So here Mormonism is, in a nutshell. How the hell did we ever fall for this stuff? Guess PT Barnum was right...
Mormonism teaches that God used to be a man on another planet and that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of his god on his home planet. In his present god-state, he rules our world. He has a body of flesh and bones and, according to Mormonism, he has a wife, a goddess wife. Since they are both exalted persons, they each possess physical bodies. In their exalted states as deities, they have sexual relations and produces spirit children that grow and mature in the spiritual realm. The first spirit born was Jesus. Afterwards were born the devil and all other spirit creatures.
After the spirit children are born to god and his goddess wife in heaven, they come down and entered into the bodies of human babies that are being born on earth. During this 'compression' into the infant state, the memories of their pre-existence is 'veiled.' All people were, according to Mormonism, born in heaven first and then on earth where they are to grow, learn, and return to god.
God the father, who is called Elohim, was concerned for the future salvation of the people on earth. In the heavenly realm, the Father had a plan for the salvation of the world. Jesus endorsed the Father's plan. Lucifer did not. Lucifer became jealous and rebelled. In his rebellion he convinced a large portion of the spirits existing in heaven to side with him and oppose god. God being more powerful then they, cursed these rebellious spirits to become demons.
The remaining spirits sided with God. Since they chose the better way, when it comes time for them to live on earth, they have the privilege of being born in races and locations that are relative to their condition and choice made in the spirit realm.
In the Mormon plan of salvation there needed to be a savior: Jesus. But Jesus was a spirit in heaven. For him to be born on earth, Brigham Young the second prophet of the Mormon church said that instead of letting any other man do it, God the Father did it with Mary. He said that the birth of our savior was as natural as the birth of our parents. Essentially, what this means is that god the father came down and had sexual relations with Mary, his spirit daughter, to produce the body of Jesus. Jesus, then, was born, got married, and had children. He died on the cross and paid for sins not on the cross only, but in the garden of Gesthemene before he went to the cross.
Mormon men and women have the potential of becoming gods. A famous Mormon saying is "As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become." In order to reach this exalted state a person must first become a good Mormon and pay a full ten percent tithe to the Mormon church. Afterwards, he or she can enter a Mormon temple and go through secret rituals: baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, and various oaths of secrecy and commitment. Additionally, four secret handshakes are taught so the believing Mormon, upon entering the third level of Mormon heaven, can shake hands with god in a certain pattern. This celestial ritual is for the purpose of permitting entrance into that level of heaven.
For those who achieve this highest of heavens, exaltation to godhood awaits them. Then, he or she, will be permitted to have his or her own planet and be the god of his own world and the Mormon system will be expanded to other planets.
PEACE
Some of these documents are from the late 1990's but still good, IMHO, some twenty years later, so I'm not just discarding them but scanning them in now that I have several large terabyte discs. So here's one of those good texts, maybe somebody finds it useful.
And - 'Frodo' in memoriam.
------------------------------------------------------------
How did we ever fall for it? When you look at it from outside, it's all very silly. :-)
Posted by Frodo on February 23, 1999 at 18:27:34:
So here Mormonism is, in a nutshell. How the hell did we ever fall for this stuff? Guess PT Barnum was right...
Mormonism teaches that God used to be a man on another planet and that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of his god on his home planet. In his present god-state, he rules our world. He has a body of flesh and bones and, according to Mormonism, he has a wife, a goddess wife. Since they are both exalted persons, they each possess physical bodies. In their exalted states as deities, they have sexual relations and produces spirit children that grow and mature in the spiritual realm. The first spirit born was Jesus. Afterwards were born the devil and all other spirit creatures.
After the spirit children are born to god and his goddess wife in heaven, they come down and entered into the bodies of human babies that are being born on earth. During this 'compression' into the infant state, the memories of their pre-existence is 'veiled.' All people were, according to Mormonism, born in heaven first and then on earth where they are to grow, learn, and return to god.
God the father, who is called Elohim, was concerned for the future salvation of the people on earth. In the heavenly realm, the Father had a plan for the salvation of the world. Jesus endorsed the Father's plan. Lucifer did not. Lucifer became jealous and rebelled. In his rebellion he convinced a large portion of the spirits existing in heaven to side with him and oppose god. God being more powerful then they, cursed these rebellious spirits to become demons.
The remaining spirits sided with God. Since they chose the better way, when it comes time for them to live on earth, they have the privilege of being born in races and locations that are relative to their condition and choice made in the spirit realm.
In the Mormon plan of salvation there needed to be a savior: Jesus. But Jesus was a spirit in heaven. For him to be born on earth, Brigham Young the second prophet of the Mormon church said that instead of letting any other man do it, God the Father did it with Mary. He said that the birth of our savior was as natural as the birth of our parents. Essentially, what this means is that god the father came down and had sexual relations with Mary, his spirit daughter, to produce the body of Jesus. Jesus, then, was born, got married, and had children. He died on the cross and paid for sins not on the cross only, but in the garden of Gesthemene before he went to the cross.
Mormon men and women have the potential of becoming gods. A famous Mormon saying is "As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become." In order to reach this exalted state a person must first become a good Mormon and pay a full ten percent tithe to the Mormon church. Afterwards, he or she can enter a Mormon temple and go through secret rituals: baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, and various oaths of secrecy and commitment. Additionally, four secret handshakes are taught so the believing Mormon, upon entering the third level of Mormon heaven, can shake hands with god in a certain pattern. This celestial ritual is for the purpose of permitting entrance into that level of heaven.
For those who achieve this highest of heavens, exaltation to godhood awaits them. Then, he or she, will be permitted to have his or her own planet and be the god of his own world and the Mormon system will be expanded to other planets.
PEACE
Here's my version, which I posted in 1997:
MORMONISM IN A NUTSHELL
(WHAT ANYBODY SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WITHOUT ANY HELP)
If somebody should come around to you and say, very seriously, that:
-- God has been talking personally to him; and
- he has an important message for YOU from GOD (even though you know that God has your address and phone number and could easily give you the message himself); and
- the message is that God wants you to do whatever this guy says;
- which includes giving this guy lots of money, time and energy to help him; and
- if you do this, wonderful things will happen to you, but mostly after you're dead; and
- God has told him all kinds of important stuff (but not how to cure AIDS, or cancer, or the common cold; or how to pick a stock that will double in a year; or how to pay off the national debt); and
- It's OK for him to be married to 30 or 40 women at the same time (but it's not OK for YOU); and
- You're not supposed to ask him any questions, but just trust him; and
- If you do everything he says, he'll tell you the secret password and handshake that will get you into Heaven; and
- Then, after you die and go to Heaven, you will organize and rule your own world and billions of your own spirit children (even though right now you can't even organize your own desk top, you hire somebody else to prepare your tax return and repair your carburetor, you have absolutely no interest in astronomy, quantum physics or advanced math, and you can't control the three kids you have);
If somebody tells you all this,
SHOULDN'T YOU BE A LITTLE BIT SUSPICIOUS?
Chances are pretty good that he is either a lunatic or a fraud, AND YOU SHOULD RUN LIKE HELL!
But this is Joseph Smith's story, in a nutshell.
MORMONISM IN A NUTSHELL
(WHAT ANYBODY SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WITHOUT ANY HELP)
If somebody should come around to you and say, very seriously, that:
-- God has been talking personally to him; and
- he has an important message for YOU from GOD (even though you know that God has your address and phone number and could easily give you the message himself); and
- the message is that God wants you to do whatever this guy says;
- which includes giving this guy lots of money, time and energy to help him; and
- if you do this, wonderful things will happen to you, but mostly after you're dead; and
- God has told him all kinds of important stuff (but not how to cure AIDS, or cancer, or the common cold; or how to pick a stock that will double in a year; or how to pay off the national debt); and
- It's OK for him to be married to 30 or 40 women at the same time (but it's not OK for YOU); and
- You're not supposed to ask him any questions, but just trust him; and
- If you do everything he says, he'll tell you the secret password and handshake that will get you into Heaven; and
- Then, after you die and go to Heaven, you will organize and rule your own world and billions of your own spirit children (even though right now you can't even organize your own desk top, you hire somebody else to prepare your tax return and repair your carburetor, you have absolutely no interest in astronomy, quantum physics or advanced math, and you can't control the three kids you have);
If somebody tells you all this,
SHOULDN'T YOU BE A LITTLE BIT SUSPICIOUS?
Chances are pretty good that he is either a lunatic or a fraud, AND YOU SHOULD RUN LIKE HELL!
But this is Joseph Smith's story, in a nutshell.
I'm going to take a super honest look at what you've written here to give you a complete analysis and review in accordance to how I've been taught.
To start off as a toddler in Nursery I had a super powerful testimony that the cheerios were true. My great desire to partake of additional cheerios made it possible for the process to get underway for the glorious Correlation program to groom me into the peculiarly wondrous thinker that I am today. Oooops correction - I mean "obeyer" not "thinker" as the truth is that once we are well-assimilated then we don't do any thinking but just obeying as the mighty Brethren and the holy middlemen they put in charge of micromanaging our lives do the thinking for us :) Well here goes my analysis of what you wrote.
To start off you wrote the word "Here's" but immediately I'm not sure this was a word that the Brethren had instructed you to write. Thus its suspect. Thus my mind has shut down. I read the next word "my" and thought "oh my, a doubt might stop creeping in". I started to read the 3rd word that started with the letter "v" but then the Correlation program scored a miraculous victory in my life. I substituted "victory" and then stopped reading what you had written.
Hallelujah!! I got as far as I need to get, thanks to the wondrous way the Correlation program has assimilated me, in reading and analyzing what you wrote !!!!!!
I suppose I could lie and say I really read further. But that would be "dishonest" and my mission is to present what the "honest" way of doing apologetics looks like. I've promised that as soon as the risk of anyone doing "dishonest" apologetics on the internet goes away then I'll get off. I'm assuming, thanks to the Church's emphasis on being true (i.e. the most honest and transparent organization ever), that the risk of dishonest apologetics should be going away super soon :)
To start off as a toddler in Nursery I had a super powerful testimony that the cheerios were true. My great desire to partake of additional cheerios made it possible for the process to get underway for the glorious Correlation program to groom me into the peculiarly wondrous thinker that I am today. Oooops correction - I mean "obeyer" not "thinker" as the truth is that once we are well-assimilated then we don't do any thinking but just obeying as the mighty Brethren and the holy middlemen they put in charge of micromanaging our lives do the thinking for us :) Well here goes my analysis of what you wrote.
To start off you wrote the word "Here's" but immediately I'm not sure this was a word that the Brethren had instructed you to write. Thus its suspect. Thus my mind has shut down. I read the next word "my" and thought "oh my, a doubt might stop creeping in". I started to read the 3rd word that started with the letter "v" but then the Correlation program scored a miraculous victory in my life. I substituted "victory" and then stopped reading what you had written.
Hallelujah!! I got as far as I need to get, thanks to the wondrous way the Correlation program has assimilated me, in reading and analyzing what you wrote !!!!!!
I suppose I could lie and say I really read further. But that would be "dishonest" and my mission is to present what the "honest" way of doing apologetics looks like. I've promised that as soon as the risk of anyone doing "dishonest" apologetics on the internet goes away then I'll get off. I'm assuming, thanks to the Church's emphasis on being true (i.e. the most honest and transparent organization ever), that the risk of dishonest apologetics should be going away super soon :)
Here's my version.
A person is walking along, minding their own business when they see a nut on the ground under a "mormon" tree, so they stop to pick it up.
They think to themselves "I'll crack the shell open and enjoy the tasty nut within."
They crack they shell, open it up and find that the nut is rotten and rancid and will make them sick if they partake of it.
So they think to themselves "maybe if I pick a fresh nut from teh tree, it will be better."
They pick a fresh nut and open it up and find the same rotten nut inside. They do this many times over and find the same.
So they toss the rotten nuts aside, no worse for the wear, and continue on their merry way, remembering to warn others about the rotten nuts that fall form the mormon tree.
A person is walking along, minding their own business when they see a nut on the ground under a "mormon" tree, so they stop to pick it up.
They think to themselves "I'll crack the shell open and enjoy the tasty nut within."
They crack they shell, open it up and find that the nut is rotten and rancid and will make them sick if they partake of it.
So they think to themselves "maybe if I pick a fresh nut from teh tree, it will be better."
They pick a fresh nut and open it up and find the same rotten nut inside. They do this many times over and find the same.
So they toss the rotten nuts aside, no worse for the wear, and continue on their merry way, remembering to warn others about the rotten nuts that fall form the mormon tree.