The convential wisdom in Mormondom is that Joseph Smith was extremely handsome. I disagree on that. The Church paints pictures that make him a lot more handsome than he probably was. I have seen a picture drawn of him back in the day that was not that flattering. It emphasised his prominent nose.

I read that he was "moderately handsome", which probably comes closer to the truth. On the plus side: his blue eyes, his luxurious hair that swept back very becomingly, moderately attractive facial features, and a powerful physique. On the minus side: his prominent nose, which wasn't that bad but was not that good either (depending on the eye of the beholder), and his forehead which tilted backward, which is not really bad but not that good either.

How seductive was Joseph? I read that he only came up with plural marriage when he found out women would not sleep with him unless they were married to him. Top notch seducers know how to get married women into bed with them. Not every woman, but enough women to keep themselves occupied. If Joseph were really a first class seducer, he would not have had to bother with plural marriage. By the way, handsome men are not necessarily good seducers; some of the best seducers have not been all that attractive.

Joseph probably could not reach women on an emotional level. He was too narcissistic, self-absorbed, crazy, etc. to emotionally connect with women. Women who like to be seduced want a man who can connect with them emotionally. Joseph's greatest talent was being a deceiver, and a deceiver of men especially.

When Joseph discovered he was not "good enough" to seduce women, while many other prominent men were, he probably became jealous of seductive men, and to prove he was just as good as they were, he introduced polygamy.

Mormons as a whole are not great seducers. Joseph was a man's man, not a lady's man. He attracted church leaders similar to himself. Polygamy thrived because so many other church leaders were like him: power hungry, but not that sensitive to the needs of the fair sex.

Although they keep quiet about it, other religions probably have a higher percentage of leaders who are great seducers. They understand women. They are more honest with their feelings. Even people in general, regardless of religion, probably harbor more top quality seducers than Mormonism does. There are plenty of myths regarding famous seducers that the average person is more familiar with than Mormons are.

Mormonism's weird attitude towards sexuality--remain virtually sexless until marriage, marry in the temple, marry because you are commanded to, not because you want to, wear garments in bed, sexual sin is next to murder, separate yourself from the opposite sex for two years on a mission, etc., make it very hard to develop a normal sexuality, and the ability to seduce can only develop from a normal sexuality. Many women enjoy being seduced, but very few women enjoy being forced into a polygamous marriage.

If you've seen photos of his death mask, you can see that he wasn't handsome at all, even by pre-1850 standards. I guess he must just have been very charismatic & a very good liar.

...the big, giant, red-Escalade-hot burning question is "How handsome/seductive was Warren Jeffs REALLY?...a truer version of traditional Mormonism cannot currently be found...at least for now.

Yuck........really?............I JUST HAD to bring him into the thread...

https://ia800401.us.archive.org/28/items/ViewpointOnMormonism/2014.02.03.WarrenJeffsPredictionsPart1.mp3

I hear he smelled like green jellow with shredded carrots :)

Seriously though, I doubt he looked ANYTHING CLOSE to how TSCC portrays him.

It's been shown in an number of studies the women in general are highly attracted to men with high status and who are powerful.

It makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint that women are looking for a mate that has the resources to ensure her children survive.

Joseph Smith's extreme elevation of power & status would have made him extremely attractive to some women regardless of physical appearance.

(I completely understand that not all women are attracted to status & power. There were also a number of women who told Joseph to get lost despite his status.)

You don't necessarily need to be conventionally handsome to score with the ladies. Russell Brand got Katie Perry. David Copperfield and Claudia Schiffer. Billy Joel and Christie Brinkley. Obviously it wasn't about looks and considering they were successful career women, it probably wasn't about money. Some guys just have something about them that makes women go nuts over them for non-obvious reasons.

Also, Mama Smith was a pretty religious lady - maybe she instilled just enough guilt in young Joey that HE felt he needed to marry the women he slept with - rather than just seducing women (married or not).

The marrying them before sleeping with them probably had a lot to do with covering his tracks to get in less trouble if/when he got caught.

Harvey Weinstein and Georgina Chapman!

Bulgy eyes, serious underbite, bonk like a frying-pan handle.

Seductive? Probably. Handsome? No way.

http://mormonartconservation.org/paintings/important-mormon-art-the-earliest-portraits-of-joseph-smith/attachment/pic_0051/

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/lds/generaljosephsmith.jpg

http://josephsmith.net/josephsmith/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2e4f6a55e0cf3010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&vgnextfmt=tab3

His brother Hyrum wore prescription sunglasses. Here is a picture of them and their carrying case:

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/RelEd/id/5010

That's pretty cool for 1844. I can imagine a whole outfit, coat, hat and cologne for those sunglasses, and I'm sure Joseph dressed just as well.

behindcurtain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...
> Joseph was a man's man, not a lady's man
...

An 'alpha male" who can demand and obtain intimate relations
with his inner circle follower's wives can be a powerful man
indeed. I think that the 1844 Nauvoo Expositor and a few issues
of the near-by Gentile Warsaw Signal, provide scraps of insight
in how Smith was able to use sexual conquest as an extension
and cementing of personal power.

By the Nauvoo era he was fat and unattractive -- except in
his accumulated power, experience, and con-man's charisma.

In seducing females during that era, he obviously was not
relying much upon his physical features. Women like Sarah
Pratt and Nancy Rigdon were able to refuse him easily.

If he seduced men (which I would not put past Smith), I'm
certain that the seductions were not based upon homosexuality,
but rather were a pure exercise of power and dominance.

Smith's relationships with women other than his wife, during
the pre-Nauvoo era, are another matter altogether. In those
years, I suppose elements of physical attraction entered into
the mix -- as did his captivating eyes and voice.

It might be useful if we could consult some modern con-man
whose religious domination is shored up by sexual conquests.
If such a leader (handsome, ugly, or neutral looking) would
candidly share with us his seduction methods, we might learn
a great deal about Joseph Smith from those private insights.

UD

Hi,

I am from Brazil and not a mormon,but it was intersting reading about it, I wish we could have real pictures from that time, in my opinion he was not handsome but knew how to make people fear him.

Many decades ago I had some time to kill in Fillmore UT because of car trouble. I went to a small museum (in the town hall, I think) and there were portrait photos of the early settlers. Man, those were not attractive people. They looked more like livestock. Livestock that had been treated poorly.

They say the one-eyed man is king in the land of the blind, so I guess in the land of the homely the less homely man is handsome.

LMAO...well stated Old Elder.

I'm sure he is even less attractive now than he was in 2012 when this thread was started.

Yes, Dagny, it is strange that this thread from 2012 was resurrected, and I agree with you, he’s getting less handome every year. Every time I run into him I remark upon how much older and deader he looks. ;)

Well, let me add this observation.

There is no record of any woman chasing HIM.

A truly attractive man will have some women chasing HIM. He won't have to do the pursuing.

JS could only convince women to bed him if he first convinced them that it was God's will, and that if they said no, their souls and the souls of their family members would be in jeopardy. Sounds like the tactics of a desperate man who has absolutely no confidence in his inherent attractiveness.

Does anyone know of even ONE woman he chased after JS?


No one comes to mind.

Lois

Old thread or no...

I think virtually everything about Joseph Smith is preposterously idealized.

You mean you don't think that death mask they made of him is hot?

What about that pompadour hair too!

When I worked in the COB, back in the day, our boss took our small group out to the Granite Mountain Vault and I saw the death masks of Joseph Smith Jr and Hyrum Smith. The first thing you notice is JS's very prominent nose. IMO, he resembles the picture of him where he has his hand on one hip and holding papers in the other; but even that picture portrays him as better looking than he really was.

That first known likeness of him, linked above, definitely shows the overbite and big nose.

I agree with Lois lane, if no one ever chased him, he was NOT good looking. And who better to know than Lois lane?? I.e. he’s no Superman!

I never got the attraction... physically or otherwise. Having to compete with his teenage twin wives, or with a 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball, would be likewise unappealing I'd think for any woman.

Perchance gals of that era and persuasion were attracted to things like his skill in blood sacrificing a dog and a black sheep, or his general's costume. If you take Helen Mar Kimball's word for it, the decision to get with Joseph had a lot to do with him promising a ticket to the Celestial Kingdom. Now that we know from the genetic testing how many of the wives gave birth to children from other church leaders, maybe the attraction was wife-swapping itself. There are some who are into that even to this day.

I would also think that after being cruelly tarred and feathered early on, that it left his body somewhat disformed and at least scarred. How sexy that must have been.

Plus he was missing one of his front teeth which caused him to whistle when he talked.

Nope, I don't think he was a babe magnet.

Lois