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Another Mormon leader or something caught in a sting.
https://fox13now.com/2019/02/20/former-vice-squad-cop-arrested-in-valentines-day-prostitution-sting-in-lehi/
The original article I read didn't specify the bishop thing, hence I didn't know originally that he actually was a bishop. It just said that he was a "religious leader." Sorry for my misinformation.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 05:44PM by cludgie.
https://fox13now.com/2019/02/20/former-vice-squad-cop-arrested-in-valentines-day-prostitution-sting-in-lehi/
The original article I read didn't specify the bishop thing, hence I didn't know originally that he actually was a bishop. It just said that he was a "religious leader." Sorry for my misinformation.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 05:44PM by cludgie.
Once again we see the value of Mormon priesthood leaders' discernment.
Yep! This went right up on my FB page.
He was running the prostitution ring while serving as a bishop.
------------
LEHI, Utah — A man who served as a bishop for a local LDS congregation and who formerly supervised a police vice squad was arrested after a human trafficking sting conducted in Lehi on Valentine’s Day....
...Moss was serving as the bishop for a local congregation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. According to LDS.org, he oversees the Mill Pond Ward in Lehi.
The LDS Church stated Wednesday they’ve taken steps to remove Moss from that position. See below for their complete statement:
“The behavior alleged in this incident is completely unacceptable and unbecoming of any member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and especially of someone serving in a position of local leadership,” an LDS Church Spokesman stated. “Upon learning of this situation, local leaders took immediate steps to relieve him of his role and to identify his replacement."
------------
LEHI, Utah — A man who served as a bishop for a local LDS congregation and who formerly supervised a police vice squad was arrested after a human trafficking sting conducted in Lehi on Valentine’s Day....
...Moss was serving as the bishop for a local congregation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. According to LDS.org, he oversees the Mill Pond Ward in Lehi.
The LDS Church stated Wednesday they’ve taken steps to remove Moss from that position. See below for their complete statement:
“The behavior alleged in this incident is completely unacceptable and unbecoming of any member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and especially of someone serving in a position of local leadership,” an LDS Church Spokesman stated. “Upon learning of this situation, local leaders took immediate steps to relieve him of his role and to identify his replacement."
I suppose he's gonna have his pee-pee whacked pretty hard by the church, because he embarrassed the holy apostholes.
According to this, he had a previous episode of sexual misconduct.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900056607/former-utah-vice-squad-lieutenant-arrested-in-prostitution-sting.html
"Moss was a lieutenant over the St. George Police Department's vice squad, according to investigators, but was forced to resign from the department due to sexual misconduct allegations.
Investigators at Peace Officer Standards and Training received a complaint in 2012 regarding allegations of sex on duty involving Moss. He relinquished his police certification in 2013, which according to administrators is the equivalent of having his certification revoked, meaning Moss can never reapply to be a police officer in Utah."
I would have thought that would have been disqualifying for becoming a bishop.
As an aside, it is interesting (but not surprising) that both KSL and Deseret News reporting mention that he was "a leader of a local religious congregation" without mentioning that he was a Mormon bishop.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900056607/former-utah-vice-squad-lieutenant-arrested-in-prostitution-sting.html
"Moss was a lieutenant over the St. George Police Department's vice squad, according to investigators, but was forced to resign from the department due to sexual misconduct allegations.
Investigators at Peace Officer Standards and Training received a complaint in 2012 regarding allegations of sex on duty involving Moss. He relinquished his police certification in 2013, which according to administrators is the equivalent of having his certification revoked, meaning Moss can never reapply to be a police officer in Utah."
I would have thought that would have been disqualifying for becoming a bishop.
As an aside, it is interesting (but not surprising) that both KSL and Deseret News reporting mention that he was "a leader of a local religious congregation" without mentioning that he was a Mormon bishop.
This man uses his position as a cop, his access and his prestige, to engage in adulterous behavior. This all goes public, after which he repents and is made a bishop, a position from which he assembles and runs a prostitution ring.
Meanwhile, a random teenager in the ward touches his girlfriend and is deemed unqualified to serve a mission.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 06:38PM by Lot's Wife.
Meanwhile, a random teenager in the ward touches his girlfriend and is deemed unqualified to serve a mission.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 06:38PM by Lot's Wife.
cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suppose he's gonna have his pee-pee whacked
> pretty hard by the church, because he embarrassed
> the holy apostholes.
Richard Pryor routine: "Bailiff, whack his pee-pee!!"
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suppose he's gonna have his pee-pee whacked
> pretty hard by the church, because he embarrassed
> the holy apostholes.
Richard Pryor routine: "Bailiff, whack his pee-pee!!"
“The behavior alleged in this incident is completely unacceptable and unbecoming of any member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and especially of someone serving in a position of local leadership,” an LDS Church Spokesman stated. “Upon learning of this situation, local leaders took immediate steps to relieve him of his role and to identify his replacement."
This proves that today’s church is completely different from the early church. Maybe this guy took his role of providing employment for single moms too seriously.
This proves that today’s church is completely different from the early church. Maybe this guy took his role of providing employment for single moms too seriously.
The Bretheren be like, “Damnit!!! How did we miss him for MTC President!!!” They might be questioning even their own discernment.
Sorry, I did not see this post and just started another thread about it.
But think about the implications of this. First of all there is a very strong likelihood that within the past few weeks he was sitting alone, behind closed doors, with girls as young as 11 and asking them sex related questions. Given this guy was running a prostitution ring, it is also not a stretch to think this guy could have been using his position as a trusted religious leader to identify vulnerable young girls to recruit into his prostitution ring. Most abusers tend to take their time to groom their victims too.
But the arrogant old men running the church think this is just fine because they are doing the work of some magic sky daddy, and anyone who points out potential flaws deserve to be excommunicated.
But think about the implications of this. First of all there is a very strong likelihood that within the past few weeks he was sitting alone, behind closed doors, with girls as young as 11 and asking them sex related questions. Given this guy was running a prostitution ring, it is also not a stretch to think this guy could have been using his position as a trusted religious leader to identify vulnerable young girls to recruit into his prostitution ring. Most abusers tend to take their time to groom their victims too.
But the arrogant old men running the church think this is just fine because they are doing the work of some magic sky daddy, and anyone who points out potential flaws deserve to be excommunicated.
The DesNews confirms his (ex) bishop status:
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900056607/former-utah-vice-squad-lieutenant-arrested-in-prostitution-sting-mormon-bishop.html
While the Trib remains silent:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/02/20/utah-county-officers/
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900056607/former-utah-vice-squad-lieutenant-arrested-in-prostitution-sting-mormon-bishop.html
While the Trib remains silent:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/02/20/utah-county-officers/
Wow. So mormongurlz.com is a documentary?
OK, comedy bit out of the way, this shows once again how wonderful the gift of discernment™ is.....
How much horrible stuff goes on that faithful TBM's keep quiet about because the men in control have guilted them in to thinking they will lose Celestial Kingdom points? Ugh.
OK, comedy bit out of the way, this shows once again how wonderful the gift of discernment™ is.....
How much horrible stuff goes on that faithful TBM's keep quiet about because the men in control have guilted them in to thinking they will lose Celestial Kingdom points? Ugh.
This does not necessarily mean that he will be excommunicated?
I'm willing to guess that others have been exed for lesser offenses?
i
I'm willing to guess that others have been exed for lesser offenses?
i
Life damaging abuse like this is allowed to happen over and over and over in the Mormon Church. If it really deserved to have the name of church, this type of abuse would long ago have been eradicated.
Instead, we hear of instances like these which I'm sure are miniscule in number compared to the actual number of victims created by the policies of the MormonCult.
Instead, we hear of instances like these which I'm sure are miniscule in number compared to the actual number of victims created by the policies of the MormonCult.
As in the Catholic Church. In both cases the prevailing ethos is that the ministration of Jesus's authoritative gospel and sacraments is so important that nothing should be allowed to interfere. Child abuse is nowhere near as critical as the church's prestige and reputation.
As the inimitable Boyd Packer said, sexual molestation "is comparable "in the eternal scheme of things. . . to a very, very bad experience in the second semester of the first grade."
Perhaps the two churches should consider a joint legal defense: save on those unconscionable attorneys' fees.
As the inimitable Boyd Packer said, sexual molestation "is comparable "in the eternal scheme of things. . . to a very, very bad experience in the second semester of the first grade."
Perhaps the two churches should consider a joint legal defense: save on those unconscionable attorneys' fees.
The Pope keeps talking about forgiveness for the abusers. My response is sure, forgive them, AFTER they have been dealt with by the police and AFTER they have been stripped of their religious vocation. Until such policies and procedures have been put into place, forgiveness should not be a part of the conversation.
Right: AFTER::
1) They've completed criminal investigation & prosecution,
2) They've been stripped of church responsibilities, and denied future callings and appointments,
and may I add,
3) They've publicly acknowledged their transgressions, apologized
collectively and to individual wherever possible, and made reasonable efforts to make restitution and amends, whenever and however possible.
In other words, "wore the hair shirt."
1) They've completed criminal investigation & prosecution,
2) They've been stripped of church responsibilities, and denied future callings and appointments,
and may I add,
3) They've publicly acknowledged their transgressions, apologized
collectively and to individual wherever possible, and made reasonable efforts to make restitution and amends, whenever and however possible.
In other words, "wore the hair shirt."
Agreed.
But the problem doesn't stop there. As we have seen, there have been a few attempts to deal with this that were thwarted by the cardinals because they know that the coverups inculpate them as well. Even Frank is reportedly, but not surprisingly, tainted; for when there are formal "internal guidelines" for how to deal with sexually errant priests and bishops--documents Francis has acknowledged--he too has a history of coverup. No fidelity to elegant Latin, no degree of "uplifting services," compensates for the toleration of so much harm to the vulnerable.
That applies to the LDS church, which hasn't had as much time to master the cynicism implicit in Catholic governance, as well. Give up the unchecked power structure, allow for routine lay oversight, or accept that these atrocities will continue by dint of human nature in authoritarian organizations.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2019 12:27PM by Lot's Wife.
But the problem doesn't stop there. As we have seen, there have been a few attempts to deal with this that were thwarted by the cardinals because they know that the coverups inculpate them as well. Even Frank is reportedly, but not surprisingly, tainted; for when there are formal "internal guidelines" for how to deal with sexually errant priests and bishops--documents Francis has acknowledged--he too has a history of coverup. No fidelity to elegant Latin, no degree of "uplifting services," compensates for the toleration of so much harm to the vulnerable.
That applies to the LDS church, which hasn't had as much time to master the cynicism implicit in Catholic governance, as well. Give up the unchecked power structure, allow for routine lay oversight, or accept that these atrocities will continue by dint of human nature in authoritarian organizations.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2019 12:27PM by Lot's Wife.
The stake president of this guy's stake should be at fault too. Not legally but morally. How can anyone say the church is true and believe that the stake president is even remotely inspired to have picked this guy to be a bishop? One of those two things is wrong, wrong, wrong. As ex-mormons, we can say yeah, so the church isn't true. So what? As a TBM one would have to say that the church picked two uninspired leaders. Both the Bishop and the stake president who called that guy to be a bishop. Either lightning struck the same place twice by sheer coincidence, or the church isn't true. All trains of reasonable thought say the church isn't true.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2019 09:52PM by azsteve.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2019 09:52PM by azsteve.
TBM reasoning - That Bishop had to be there for a purpose. Be it to inspire a person to serve a mission, save a marriage, or something else. Yes, he did something horrible outside of his calling as a Bishop, but that does not mean he did not serve a spiritual purpose as a Bishop.
I don't see how he could have served any good when he was doing something so horrendous.. all teachings of the church show that when you are transgressing the spirit leaves you.. there is no way that the spirit was with him during his calling..
Obviously, sexual exploitation and the instinct to cover it up make for a very big one. But let's take a look at something that foundational, in that it is out of sight but very important.
Sacerdotalism is a big word, but a concept worth understanding. It's the doctrine (which I consider wrong) that a priesthood (or clergy, or institutional church) is necessary to intercede between the member and the deity. Thus, no absolution by a priest, no forgiveness of sins. (Apply this also to the "necessity" of temple ordinances.)
But what happens when the priest (or priesthood) is compromised by personal (or institutional) sin? With both Catholicism and LDS, there is the belief that some kind of spiritual power, or virtue, is transferred through that person (or church) in spite of the sin. This was a big sticking point for Martin Luther, who could not accept that sinful priests could mediate between God and sinners.
Maybe that seems kind of academic, but I hope it helps explain why LDS superiors (and members!) can hold that even though this bishop was a moral louse, he was still held, or was capable of, spiritual and religious authority.
Yuck.
Sacerdotalism is a big word, but a concept worth understanding. It's the doctrine (which I consider wrong) that a priesthood (or clergy, or institutional church) is necessary to intercede between the member and the deity. Thus, no absolution by a priest, no forgiveness of sins. (Apply this also to the "necessity" of temple ordinances.)
But what happens when the priest (or priesthood) is compromised by personal (or institutional) sin? With both Catholicism and LDS, there is the belief that some kind of spiritual power, or virtue, is transferred through that person (or church) in spite of the sin. This was a big sticking point for Martin Luther, who could not accept that sinful priests could mediate between God and sinners.
Maybe that seems kind of academic, but I hope it helps explain why LDS superiors (and members!) can hold that even though this bishop was a moral louse, he was still held, or was capable of, spiritual and religious authority.
Yuck.
Sacerdotalism, in my mind, is a huge factor in the Catholic scandals and institutional coverup.
If one goes back to the collapse of Rome, it was the priests and the church who sustained higher culture in Europe. They kept the best libraries, the best training facilities, the strictest language skills; and they offered salvation. Priests may be corrupt as hell, but they were the only ones who could stand in for God--and the church needed that monopoly on power to protect itself in the political chaos.
That tradition, which bolsters the church's venal interests, remains potent today. Priests really are a class apart, a class with special and essential powers. So the church protects them.
Something like that does indeed exist in Mormonism, although with some variation. Normal priesthood holders and bishops and other low-level officials get some protection but can be thrown under the bus. Those who have received the second anointing are more special and more protected, which is why Hans Mattson and Tom Phillips have not been excommunicated.
Where Mormonism most clearly does practice sacerdotalism is in the case of the insider families, the descendants of the founders. Rules are bent for those people; they receive much greater protection in both minor matters like going on missions when not strictly worthy to exceptional concealment in cases like Joseph Bishop.
But yes, any organization that grants greater status to a class of people is asking for trouble. That is why Pope Frank can't, or won't, do a damn thing about child abuse and coverup. Sacerdotalism is built into the Catholic Church at a fundamental level: those people believe--their interests demand that they believe--that they have an obligation to guard those who dispense the heavenly ordinances.
If one goes back to the collapse of Rome, it was the priests and the church who sustained higher culture in Europe. They kept the best libraries, the best training facilities, the strictest language skills; and they offered salvation. Priests may be corrupt as hell, but they were the only ones who could stand in for God--and the church needed that monopoly on power to protect itself in the political chaos.
That tradition, which bolsters the church's venal interests, remains potent today. Priests really are a class apart, a class with special and essential powers. So the church protects them.
Something like that does indeed exist in Mormonism, although with some variation. Normal priesthood holders and bishops and other low-level officials get some protection but can be thrown under the bus. Those who have received the second anointing are more special and more protected, which is why Hans Mattson and Tom Phillips have not been excommunicated.
Where Mormonism most clearly does practice sacerdotalism is in the case of the insider families, the descendants of the founders. Rules are bent for those people; they receive much greater protection in both minor matters like going on missions when not strictly worthy to exceptional concealment in cases like Joseph Bishop.
But yes, any organization that grants greater status to a class of people is asking for trouble. That is why Pope Frank can't, or won't, do a damn thing about child abuse and coverup. Sacerdotalism is built into the Catholic Church at a fundamental level: those people believe--their interests demand that they believe--that they have an obligation to guard those who dispense the heavenly ordinances.
Even worse, bishops are approved by 1st presidency and suggested by general authorities. Back in the day, I was interviewed by Merrill Bateman so he could use his discernment powers.
Haha! All I can say is I'm not surprised. I would imagine this will cause more members of the church to jump ship. So much for that priesthood discernment. The scandals will just keep coming. Maybe we will find out Bednar is a closet homosexual and secretly hangs out in bathhouses.
There was a dark cloud hanging over Lehi when I drove through it yesterday....or someone was burning garbage...hmmmm
Looks like the Trib article was updated (and I was reading an older, cached version):
--Quote--
...
Officials with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints confirmed that Moss was a bishop and has been removed from the position after his arrest. The church did not say when he was appointed to that role.
“The behavior alleged in this incident is completely unacceptable and unbecoming of any member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and especially of someone serving in a position of local leadership," spokesman Eric Hawkins said. "Upon learning of this situation, local leaders took immediate steps to relieve him of his role and to identify his replacement.”
--End Quote--
--Quote--
...
Officials with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints confirmed that Moss was a bishop and has been removed from the position after his arrest. The church did not say when he was appointed to that role.
“The behavior alleged in this incident is completely unacceptable and unbecoming of any member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and especially of someone serving in a position of local leadership," spokesman Eric Hawkins said. "Upon learning of this situation, local leaders took immediate steps to relieve him of his role and to identify his replacement.”
--End Quote--
The cop needed more money since his pension sucks. Though I thought cop pensions were pretty good.
Even a Bishop gets tired of the same old goods in the house.
Even a Bishop gets tired of the same old goods in the house.
Taking a note from this thread:
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2200717
he's gonna be somebody's bitch!
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2200717
he's gonna be somebody's bitch!
So much for their spirit of discernment. Imagine all their thoughtful prayers and requests for guidance and inspiration! I guess that's why the capital has its own affinity fraud division as it is rampant in Utah.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 05:45PM by drilldoc.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 05:45PM by drilldoc.
Here is more details to the story.
https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/former-lds-bishop-from-lehi-formally-charged-with-sexual-abuse/article_00f88731-917b-5777-8b24-3a3cb1efcee7.html
Can I say one more time that I am so happy to be out? I have not been in an lds building in over 5 years.
https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/former-lds-bishop-from-lehi-formally-charged-with-sexual-abuse/article_00f88731-917b-5777-8b24-3a3cb1efcee7.html
Can I say one more time that I am so happy to be out? I have not been in an lds building in over 5 years.
Some people have a weird fetish about being completely decadent but pretending to be a good outstanding member of a church. They get off on the feeling of rebellion.
In Lehi of all places.
All this brings us to this: If he was not worthy why aren't all the Priesthood required things he did being done over? Any ordinations, callings, setting apart, baptisms, etc?
He did not have the "priesthood power" during this time due to his unworthiness - want to bet not a damn thing will be re-done?
So - Priesthood doesn't really matter at all, does it?
He did not have the "priesthood power" during this time due to his unworthiness - want to bet not a damn thing will be re-done?
So - Priesthood doesn't really matter at all, does it?
OneWayJay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So - Priesthood doesn't really matter at all, does
> it?
And it never has.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So - Priesthood doesn't really matter at all, does
> it?
And it never has.
OneWayJay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this brings us to this: If he was not worthy
> why aren't all the Priesthood required things he
> did being done over? Any ordinations, callings,
> setting apart, baptisms, etc?
>
> He did not have the "priesthood power" during this
> time due to his unworthiness - want to bet not a
> damn thing will be re-done?
Look up several posts. Perhaps my previous, and the one following by Lot's Wife, will provide perspective.
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this brings us to this: If he was not worthy
> why aren't all the Priesthood required things he
> did being done over? Any ordinations, callings,
> setting apart, baptisms, etc?
>
> He did not have the "priesthood power" during this
> time due to his unworthiness - want to bet not a
> damn thing will be re-done?
Look up several posts. Perhaps my previous, and the one following by Lot's Wife, will provide perspective.
Behold.
His buddy's cell phone provided much more evidence.
https://kutv.com/news/local/man-previously-arrested-in-sex-sting-faces-22-new-counts-of-sexually-exploiting-children
Children are jewels, if cultivated properly. Shame on him and Bishop Moss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RxiuEte_t8
His buddy's cell phone provided much more evidence.
https://kutv.com/news/local/man-previously-arrested-in-sex-sting-faces-22-new-counts-of-sexually-exploiting-children
Children are jewels, if cultivated properly. Shame on him and Bishop Moss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RxiuEte_t8
I wonder what the ward thinks about all of that? If I would have been in the ward with bishop Moss and my children had one on one interviews with him. Not sure how I would have reacted. I wonder what the outcome was for the ward? Did many people resign after that? Did parents decline youth interviews? Anybody know what repercussions came of it?