There are some photos on the NZ LDS Facebook page. Jacinda Arden left the church some years ago. I would say more about the true nature of her politics, but I want this post to stay up.
with her name on it. I'm sure she will not only treasure it, but will begin reading it...and then the Holy Ghost will cause her to fall to her knees in prayer as the truthfulness of the words in the Book of Mormon are confirmed in her heart and a burning testimony is ignited in the depths of her soul to the point that she will begin attending church regularly, become worthy to go to the temple and put herself right with the Lord. She will then take every opportunity to preach the Gospel to all of the world leaders and audiences she encounters going forward. She will push for the Auckland Temple to be declared a special NZ heritage site....She will also be instrumental in converting Theresa May, who has been diligently reading the Book of Mormon that was gifted to her by Apostle Holland recently. This, brothers and sisters, is the power that the Living Prophet has to influence people and convert souls.
If you liked the above scenario, please be sure to check out similarly entertaining scenarios in my new book (soon to be published): "Things That Will Never Happen in a Million Years!".
Just like Evita, this is Wendy and Russ's rainbow tour. They request meetings with heads of government or popes in order to make themselves look more important than they are with egos balooning. Why would any government head agree to even meet with them? Why would any newspaper besides the Des News even care?
I mean, I just got back from the center of the Universe and I didn't see hide nor hair of Wendy and Russ there.
It won't be easy, you'll think it strange When I try to explain the light pen That Rusty needs your love after all that I've done You will see behind him the BYU family therapist you thought you knew...
Although she's dressed up to the nines At sixes and sevens with you I had to let it happen, I had to change Couldn't stay all my life far from power central
Now I'm looking out of the window of a private jet at the sun So I chose freedom, running around trying everything new But nothing impressed me until I bent a prophet to my will...
Don't cry for me, Salt Lake City The truth is, I never left you All through my wild days, my mad existence I kept my promise Don't keep your distance
And as for fortune, and as for fame These are God's gifts to me Though it seemed to the world they were all I desired They are illusions, they're not the solutions they promised to be... The answer was controlling Rusty all the time I love you, and hope you love me
Don't cry for me, Salt Lake City Don't cry for me, Salt Lake City The truth is, I never left you, except for a few week on a private jet All through my wild days, my mad existence I kept my promise Don't keep your distance
Have I said too much? I don't think so. I am your therapist and you're all in therapy. All you have to do is look at me to know That every word is true.
There you are, I told you so Makes no difference where we go The whole world over--just the same You should have heard them call our name And who would underestimate the prophet now?
Let's here it for the Rainbow Tour It's been an incredible success We weren't quite sure, we had a few doubts Would Ol' Rusty win through? And the answer is Yes And no And yes And no And yes, and no
Yes... we appreciate diversity soooooo much, but would prefer that everyone would become a Mormon(Opps... I mean members of TCOJCOLDS) Oh and BTW... it's too bad you quit the church... I will wave to you from the upper tier, when I am in the CK and your in one of the lesser heavens!
schrodingerscat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hey Rusty, how's it feel to meet with a woman who > has more real power and authority in her little > finger than you have in your Penishood?
Meh, prime ministers are no POTUSes. Unlike LDS presidents, they can be desselected or fired by her party at any time. She has to get her cabinet to agree to everything before it goes through.
A look at Ardern's career shows a lackluster leftist politician. She took time out to have a baby while in office, which is admirable. However, her premiership has followed the same blueprint as other rich countries. It's almost as if someone else runs her. Probably they do. She's the Trudeau of the South, but eithout the nepotistic political connection. An identikit politician who you could exchange with her opposite numbers in Ireland, Canada or certain US states.
There is one conundrum here - there are actually a lot of LDS in NZ. There are some like 150,000 supposed members - now while I'm sure the real number is lower, Maori and other Polynesians seem to flock to the LDS in a way no other group has. In fact, there were enough of them once to have their own college.
In a population of only three million or so, that's a significant number, and a cynical career politician like her probably doesn't want to annoy such a large group because it could turn an entire election around..
Jordan Wrote: -------------------------------------------------------
> Meh, prime ministers are no POTUSes. Unlike LDS > presidents, they can be desselected or fired by > her party at any time.
That depends on the structure of the government: there are as many different premierships as there are flavors of ice cream. In any cases prime ministers are significantly more powerful than presidents. Indeed, the structure of the US constitution was designed to keep the executive weaker than the legislature so that a dictatorship can't develop.
-------------- > She has to get her cabinet > to agree to everything before it goes through.
Prime ministers don't need to get their cabinets to agree to legislation. They need to get their parliamentary majorities to do so, which is different. Usually that means acting in ways that cabinet ministers support, but if they don't the prime minister can replace them. So that's not a constraint.
------------ > A look at Ardern's career shows a lackluster > leftist politician. . . However, > her premiership has followed the same blueprint as > other rich countries. It's almost as if someone > else runs her. Probably they do.
If she's doing the same as other governments of rich countries, does that make them all "leftist?" Are those other governments all "lackluster?" Are they all run by "someone else?" Who is the secret power running all these governments?
------------- > An identikit politician who you could > exchange with her opposite numbers in Ireland, > Canada or certain US states.
I don't. I hold the same opinion of Justin Trudeau, Leo Varadkar and even Gheresa May to some extent. They pass so many of the same laws it's spooky. Probably all of those international conferences they attend so frequently
"Indeed, the structure of the US constitution was designed to keep the executive weaker than the legislature so that a dictatorship can't develop"
A dictatorship could easily develop. The POTUS is like a monarch, and is treated like one by some people. Dictatorship in tbe USA will probably come out of the power structures rather than an individual. Constitutions are only good when they are not violated continually.
"If she's doing the same as other governments of rich countries, does that make them all "leftist?""
If the policies are leftist, yes. Working towards abolishing physical money is not a right wing policy. Yet it is happening across them.
"Are those other governments all "lackluster?""
Yes. They even dress like Mormons, esp the males.
"Are they all run by "someone else?" Who is the secret power running all these governments?"
There are many influencer groups and people who provide funding for political parties. Look to them.
Jordan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "So why do you single her out for disparagement" > > I don't. They pass so many of the same laws it's > spooky.
So if a lot of governments pass similar laws it's "spooky?" If so, the convergence of so many countries on democratic constitutions, public education, civil rights, etc., must have you deeply concerned.
A less conspiratorial view is that the peoples of these countries agree on basic legislative objectives.
--------------- > Probably all of those international > conferences they attend so frequently
Or the secular convergence of their peoples' views.
------------- > A dictatorship could easily develop. The POTUS is > like a monarch, and is treated like one by some > people. . . Constitutions are only good when they > are not violated continually.
Agreed.
----------- > > "If she's doing the same as other governments of > rich countries, does that make them all > "leftist?"" > > If the policies are leftist, yes.
"Leftist" is one of those terms that depends on where you are standing. If from your perspective most of the wealthy democracies are moving in one direction and you are not, maybe it would be better to describe yourself as "rightist" rather than them as "leftist."
------------------- > Working towards > abolishing physical money is not a right wing > policy. Yet it is happening across them.
Cash is going away on its own. Well less than 10% of transactions, measured by value, are conducted in cash now and the rate of decline is about 10% per annum. Governments' recognizing that secular trend doesn't seem like much of a change.
Substantively as well, there's very little difference. Since the demise of gold and silver standards, all money is fiat anyway. So the government can wipe out people's wealth at will already. There is a distinction in terms of privacy, but in a world of ubiquitous credit cards there isn't much of that left to begin with.
-------------- > "Are those other governments all "lackluster?"" > > Yes. They even dress like Mormons, esp the males.
It is probably more accurate to say that Mormons dress like government officials.
------------ > "Are they all run by "someone else?" Who is the > secret power running all these governments?" > > There are many influencer groups and people who > provide funding for political parties. Look to > them.
If that is your standard, then all democratic (and a lot of other) governments are equally "lackluster" regardless of policies. No?
"Cash is going away on its own. Well less than 10% of transactions, measured by value, are conducted in cash now and the rate of decline is about 10% per annum. Governments' recognizing that secular trend doesn't seem like much of a change."
It's not "going away on its own". This idea has been continuously pushed since the nineties, in advertizing and elsewhere, if not before. The general public has been SLOW in responding. Probably too slow. It's a case of the tail wagging the dog. Or a frog being boiled.
Thirty years of campaigning. Treating people who pay with large sums of cash as potential criminals. Or who bring it through customs. Taxing physical shops higher than online retail. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Governments love the idea of a cashless society because they can control, monitor and stop ALL economic activity except barter. Thet can completely shut down someone's money supply in an instant. It's a hugely dangerous and sinister trend which hands the government incredible amounts of power over individuals.
They will wield a power as great as any dictatorship. Corporations love it for different reasons - no need to rransport the cash - but it all leads ro the same place.
"It is probably more accurate to say that Mormons dress like government officials."
I wouldn't disagree, but doesn't that say a lot about both groups? It suggests regimentation, uniformity and complete lack of inspiration. I will say one thing in favor of them - they look well groomed, which is unusual in this day and age.
Jordan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > [The cash economy] is not "going away on its own". This idea > has been continuously pushed since the nineties, in > advertizing and elsewhere, if not before. The > general public has been SLOW in responding. > Probably too slow. It's a case of the tail wagging > the dog. Or a frog being boiled.
I'm not sure what basis you have for saying this. Do you ever look anything up? Credit card and internet transfers represented 0% of household transactions in 1950 and now account for well more than 90% thereof. Since 1980 credit card debt has grown at 12X the rate of household income. There are many different indicia of the fact that cash is going away due primarily to the desire of households to use the most convenient medium of exchange.
-------------- > Governments love the idea of a cashless society > because they can control, monitor and stop ALL > economic activity except barter.
Uh, yeah. As I said above, that has been true since governments got control of the money supply. Germany debased its currency in 1923-1925, the US and the UK ditched the gold standard in 1930 and 1931; currency reforms, which are very common internationally, almost always wipe out predetermined chunks of household wealth. Anyone who thinks that governments cannot "stop all economic activity except barter" right now is smoking too much of Colorado's finest.
--------------- > Thet can > completely shut down someone's money supply in an > instant. It's a hugely dangerous and sinister > trend which hands the government incredible > amounts of power over individuals.
That's been the case for a very long time as is implicit in your term "money supply," which has been under government control for nearly a century in the US.
--------------- > They will wield a power as great as any > dictatorship.
Almost all governments (the exception being places that are "dollarized," pegged, or otherwise constrain their own ability to control the money supply) already have that power. Most choose not to employ it. Digitalization doesn't change the situation on either score.
"Anyone who thinks that governments cannot "stop all economic activity except barter" right now is smoking too much of Colorado's finest."
With each passing year that becomes easier and easier for them with the decline of hard money. However, with electronic money, an individual's cash supply can be switched off in an instant. Not so with hard money, which is why so many drug dealers use it.
It's happened to me once - one of my bank accounts was frozen by the authorities for a couple of days (I'm not a drug dealer BTW :) ), but I had money I could use, so I got through it. However, they had acted wrongfully, since I had actually paid the amount of tax they claimed I had owed, and I received a few thousand in compensation as a result. I could have probably gone for more.
There are probably more dollar bills floating around outside the USA as in it, it would be one of the hardest currencies to eliminate in that sense.
It is ironic that we still think we live in democracies when governments control the demos instead of the other way round.
I know this is immature but I can't help it. If you combine Wendy and Russ's names like it's popular to do for couples these days it comes out "Wuss." Like this working/vacation Wuss are on.
4. Nelson also presented her with a picture of *himself* (as part of the FP). No comment necessary.
5. Sheri Dew is along for the ride and got a seat at the table. I guess Wendy needs to keep busy at night somehow while Russ is getting his big revelations.
logged out again Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 4. Nelson also presented her with a picture of > *himself* (as part of the FP). No comment > necessary.
The big question is did Ms Ardern give Mr Nelson a portrait of herself, and another set of pictures of her together with her ministers (that's her cabinet, not her home teachers)?
There is zero evidence that she did anything like that. Not sure why you would bring that up, or why you would call it a "big question," other than your clear dislike of her.
Is she one of those "cultural Marxists" you apparently see all around you?
logged out again Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There is zero evidence that she did anything like > that. Not sure why you would bring that up, or why > you would call it a "big question," other than > your clear dislike of her.
Frick and frack, can't you spot an obvious joke or do you have to have it flagged up with neon lights beforehand?
Don't be stupid, of course she didn't hand over a picture of herself and her colleagues over. But that's more or less what Nelson did TO HER!
the story from the link above has her as a nonpracticing member, while stories from other sources have her as having left over lgbti rights and tithing. she says that it was an ethical decision and describes herself as agnostic.
One way makes it reasonable but the other makes it a gigantic slap in the face. Did someone not do their research?
anon 3 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > the story from the link above has her as a > nonpracticing member, while stories from other > sources have her as having left over lgbti rights > and tithing. she says that it was an ethical > decision and describes herself as agnostic. > > One way makes it reasonable but the other makes it > a gigantic slap in the face. Did someone not do > their research?
I suspect like Mormon adolescents/children everywhere, she was dragged along by parents, and then lapsed when she grew up becauss there was no compulsion.
However, I have other suspicions:
* She became politically active and was told in no uncertain terms by someone in the party that she needed to drop her LDS affiliation if she wanted to further her career. (Sadly this fits in with other things I know about her). In other words, she goes along with whatever advances her, just as LDS attendance kept her in with her parents.
* She did leave specifically because of the gay thing. However, I would doubt this was the sole reason and she could have retrofitted her story to fit with her political career. (She wouldn't be the first politician to change her life story to suit her career.)
* She left the LDS because she was bullied out of it at school etc. This is not impossible, and this does happen to many LDS, so they leave out of peer pressure rather than personal choice. This is the least likely of the three, and if it is true, it would suggest she may still hold nostalgia for the church.
However, she does have one problem, as I've stated above. NZ is one of the more LDS countries in the world, and there are enough of them that a career politician like her needs to avoid alienating that part of the electorate.
It would be interesting to know what, if any, relationship she still has with church members. Probably family, I'd imagine but no church friends anymore. I've known a few people in that boat.