I feel like we have just publicly watched the execution of Mckenna. I feel like we have watched her be dragged up the stairs to her hangman’s noose and with pitchforks and torches we watched the noose be placed around her neck and watched her fall through the floor. We have watched as some in the crowd have completely become unhinged in the scathing brutality of it all and have attacked each other leaving common towns folk bruised and bleeding while on the sidelines the scores of media have swarmed in to cover the execution to be the most profitable for them.

To me even though I am fully aware of her past issues, this sends out a signal like a shot across the bow that if you are a woman and you fuck up, there is no redemption for you. Ever. McKenna did not live her life “abiding by the law”. Therefore according to D&C 189, she has truly been “destroyed”.

Ladies...welcome to the reality of patriarchy. Take a good long look at that dead woman on the floor, that is anyone of us. Step out of line and piss off the patriarchy and that too will be your fate. There is nothing good about Mormonism.

Yes.
It feels very much like a public stoning.

I think she was paid or sufficiently threatened to make the church’s problem go away.

What happened?

New information. Her background is full of misbehavior, which is neither here nor there regarding whether she was raped but which would be important in determining her credibility. Now she claims to have been poisoned (in a way she once previously claimed to be poisoned) and assaulted. People don't find these new accusations believable, so NNN has renounced her and her lawyers have quit.

My own view is that she was probably raped by Bishop. But at some point all the lies and misbehavior do render her charges harder to credit. I frankly don't know if she can prevail in a civil court; I seriously doubt her assertions would, under cross-examination, meet the reasonable-doubt standard in a criminal case.

So irrespective of the merits of her claims--which, again, I believe in their broad outlines--she becomes a long-shot in the courts simply because credibility matters when considering charges against others. I suspect, and britintexas says, that other women are active in the Bishop cases. As someone who wants the church to stop sheltering predators, I think the latter are far more likely to prevail.

I've been following this. I think you are spot on. Her credibility, outside of this main feature, is crap. I'm betting she is paid to go away, but not nearly as much as if she were credible.

she should get a job and quit taking handouts from people. she was on face book asking for rent money and living expenses. I work 12 hour shifts and make 13.49 an hour. life is hard, but i'm not swallowing razorblades and filing a lawsuit to the restaurant and getting dui's she can still try to win her lawsuit against bishop but at least help herself

Free Man's post is no longer here.

He linked to New Name Noah's video.

McKenna has named at least 5 men in the last 30 years as assaulting/raping her.

Okay.

Including on her mission in WA, she falsely accused a BLACK MAN of throwing her to the ground, ripping off her clothing and attempting to rape her.

She later admitted she made this up to GO HOME.

You know what ex-Mo's and all those who came out of cults hate?

LIES.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 12:12AM by carameldreams.

carameldreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know what ex-Mo's and all those who came out
> of cults hate?
>
> LIES.

You maybe but not many victims. When I was raped as a child I wanted lies to cover up my abuse. I wanted to pretend it never happened.

McKenna fired 2x from different jobs because she...

MADE UP A CANCER DIAGNOSIS!

She was trying to extort monies from co-workers for her FAKE CANCER.

Lori C., before you bleed out for McKenna, would you please do some research?

Your children will thank you!

You claim you are well aware of McKenna's failure to abide by the law.

Here's the thing: when someone is a liar, and cries wolf, they have ZERO credibility.

For all of those here and everywhere with true medical crises, such as cancer, and for all of those who have true trauma from assault, McKenna MOCKS their pain and suffering by coping a burden she does not suffer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 12:25AM by carameldreams.

And yet if she was raped in the MTC by the MTC president, she deserves justice on that score.

As a practical matter such an outcome will almost certainly not happen. But in a just world she would bear responsibility for her own misbehavior and those who abused her would pay for their crimes as well.

I agree. And if she was raped, it might excuse or at least explain some of her sometimes surprising behaviour. It's not an experience conducive to subsequent stability...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 10:03AM by Soft Machine.

Maybe the church got lucky. The smear job they did, by releasing a bunch of private information, looked like a bad move. It got her a lot of supporters. But all of the attention may have pushed her over the edge. I doubt anyone saw it coming. I hate to admit it, but maybe discernment worked in this case. God only knew what would happen.

This is why good lawyers make big money.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
er over the edge. I doubt anyone saw it
> coming. I hate to admit it, but maybe discernment
> worked in this case. God only knew what would
> happen.

I wouldn't call it "discernment" so much as akin to a totally non-operational analogue clock displaying the correct time twice during any twenty-four-hour interval or perhaps to a blind squirrel getting lucky and stumbling upon an acorn once in a great while.

While I find McKenna’s behavior horrific, I still own my opinion regarding this OP. Look at some of these comments here....people don’t like what I said and I get attacked. We are not the Mob.

My mother now deceased has a very similar wrap sheet as McKenna. Left a trail of broken people behind. For years I hated her. It was HER fault! Every arrest, every court appearance, the year she spent in home arrest. The fraud, the stealing, the made up physical ailments. She brought in all on her own damn self. Hell she stole 1000 dollars from me and that was the tip of the ice berg.

My point and only MY point is that I don’t expect anything less than dysfunction from my mother. She was a product of Mormonism and her own damn self, but I do have very different expectations of myself in regards to my behavior. What I am seeing now is what I wished someone would do to my mother.....at least I thought sobintil I witnessed this. And now, I just don’t want any more drama and pain. McKenna has to pay for the mistakes she made and the people she hurt, but as for me, I am tired of the public hangings. I know what she did and I know her he’ll is worse than cruelty I could impose. I expect those she directly hurt to be angry, obviously. But hell, the level of vitriol has reached a level that made me write what I wrote.

The personal attacks on me are a symptom of a problem we need to continue to grow through.

Good night.

Lori, I don't see any personal attacks against you on the posts that are currently up. I see people discussing McKenna's case, and perhaps disagreeing with you in certain aspects. You are entitled to your feelings and opinions on the matter, but so are other people.

IMO McKenna has not been pilloried on this board. I think that most people are simply stating that she has credibility issues that make a successful outcome in a lawsuit unlikely. This doesn't mean that she is wrong about Bishop -- just that she has unfortunately put herself in a position where she can't win her case, and is unlikely to get a good settlement.

I don't know what is going on elsewhere on the web. If you've ever dealt with the general public then you know that most people will behave reasonably but some won't.

I do think that there is a strong possibility that McKenna suffers from mental illness, perhaps BPD or something similar. Some people in the general public will understand that and make allowances for her, but many won't because they lack the necessary experience to understand it. I've taught hundreds of kids over more than two decades, and I was probably 15 or more years into my career before I could pinpoint BPD as a possible cause of one of my student's problems (from what I understand, BPD is a relatively rare diagnosis for children.) Looking back, there was probably one other student that was a candidate for BPD as well.

So basically McKenna is in the public eye, and people are going to comment. If there is to be justice for Bishop's misdeeds, it will have to come from other quarters.

There was a post that attacked Lori. It was apparently removed by Admin because of that.

Lori C. I didn't mean to attack you. That's tough your own mother has similar qualities to McKenna. McKenna may still have a case with Joseph Bishop. I think Bishop did something to McKenna, McKenna has got that conversation recorded.

I think we can all agree that McKenna, besides the Joseph Bishop case, has not lived a very honest life. McKenna is very good at drawing people in close to her and gaining their trust and their money, it's time McKenna start living a more authentic life and buckle down. Pay or at least owe her victims an apology.

I think McKenna learned a lesson this week. People don't like being lied too. Lori C. can you imagine being in McKenna's position?

I truly hope the women see's this lifestyle is not working out and is toxic.

Maybe McKenna, will learn or maybe she won't. That's her journey to take, but try to stay out of McKenna's way or else you might be taken advantage of.

I don't think Denson can change. The sort of personality problems she demonstrates are very deeply entrenched; and if she faked the assault and the poisoning, then she is still intentionally violating all sorts of moral and legal norms. I'm not sure she has enough conscience to straighten out her life.

If that is true, where are we? We are looking at a profoundly damaged, and damaging woman who was subject to some sort of abuse in a secret room that she would not otherwise know of. We know that Bishop believed what she said and that he admitted to assaulting at least a couple of other women. Given what Denson and Bishop said on that recording, I believe there was partial penetration and hence that she was legally raped.

But there are reasons that the defendant is, in criminal cases, given the benefit of the doubt. And Denson's credibility is badly damaged. So I doubt she could prevail even if the statute of limitations had not run. In a system designed to depend on credibility and cross-examination, she doesn't stand much of a chance.

My guess is that the best hope for something approaching justice is two-fold: going after the church for its concealment, and the possibility that other women who were abused by Bishop will come forward. Britintexas tells us there are such women, and I hope that is the case. They could bring out the truth about Bishop, shedding light on Denson's experience in the process, and about the LDS Church.

I’d give her some money and move to Vermont.

I can only imagine what TBMs think of the saga. Not only do they feel vindicated, but pleased that the exmos got taken for a ride. Grist for the Mormon grapevine.

Everything about this is creepy.
This nonsense is why I don't identify myself as an ExMormon or any other kind of Mormon. It seems like a circular firing squad.

Lori C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel like we have just publicly watched the
> execution of Mckenna.

Dawson was not executed. That's just hyper-dramatic hyperbole

> Ladies...welcome to the reality of patriarchy.

The patriarchy is not to blame for Dawson neglecting to comply with court orders for the discovery in a lawsuit she initiated. Had she made a minimum effort to follow court procedures she would still have lawyers and still have credibility

> Take a good long look at that dead woman on the
> floor, that is anyone of us. Step out of line and
> piss off the patriarchy and that too will be

she's not dead.

She brought this on herself

She's mentally ill at best, and a fraudster at worst.

>>Dawson was not executed. That's just hyper-dramatic hyperbole

Well said!

>>She's mentally ill at best, and a fraudster at worst.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

HWint Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> she's not dead.
>
> She brought this on herself
>
> She's mentally ill at best, and a fraudster at
> worst.

Yes, felony identity theft was one of the most recent 'unstable' behaviors.

Girl can't help herself!

Admin. Please delete this thread. I am stepping out of the McKenna bog.

I realize McKenna fucked herself up and has been for years. My point was vitriol that came from this community far far far past holding her accountable. I don’t expect anyone else to see what I am seeing.

Thanks for the conversation.

Lori C

Lori C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don’t expect anyone else to see
> what I am seeing.


I see a troubled soul with years and years of abuse to deal with hoping for something, anything to alleviate her pain and get issues she finds important the attention she thinks she deserves.

I don't know how people can judge McKenna using themselves as a yardstick.

Abuse is not something I wish on people but when you have it you have a perspective I think is lacking in people never brushed with a core-felt ontological sense of violation.

People need to understand what being ignored with mostly negative attention when got is like and then feeling in a desperate life (as a child and adult) finding some positive attention that turns to molestation.

When you feel like all you have to offer the world is a body to be played with and that your existence is only worth what you can give to others, aggression later in life is understandable.

The anger of being used and abuse by Mormonism should be a little informative here.

There is wisdom in this. Abuse of a child undermines that child's sense of identity and security. The odds of mistakes later in life go way up.

There is a reason Bishop held personal meetings with the women who had been molested as children--and it has nothing to do with ministering. A person like Denson is more vulnerable to men like him: and he knew that.

So we have a troubled woman whose history predisposes her to both bad personal conduct and further abuse. We shouldn't be surprised to encounter someone like Denson. Her sins don't mean she does not deserve justice for the things that really did happen to her even if, as a practical matter, it may be impossible for the legal system to find its way through the morass.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Her sins don't
> mean she does not deserve justice for the things
> that really did happen to her even if, as a
> practical matter, it may be impossible for the
> legal system to find its way through the morass.

The legal system is not equipped for it.

In the future, how do humans determine guilt and met punishment for people whose genes and rearing gave them a 90% probability for being perpetrators of crime?

http://faculty.missouri.edu/segerti/capstone/PFC&Criminaljustice.pdf

Denson is the Smollett of LDS.

As NNN stated, 'McKenna is the possibly the worst human being I have personally ever met.'

The woman cannot be trusted regarding ANYTHING.

Who's fault is that?

McKenna's.

If she ever wants to begin a new life, perhaps Try Jesus, as our beloved Ziller oft recommends.

Never too late for her.

She still can yell out in GC as Crystal and get some more attention.

Call her incredible. I agree that little or nothing of what she says should be taken seriously in a court of law unless it is independently verified.

Assuming that is the case, though, and that she was raped, is it your contention that the authorities should not seek to punish Bishop? This is a moral question, not a practical one. Does she lose her right to justice with regard to Bishop because she has done lots of bad things herself?

Now that a few days have passed, when I think of this whole debacle, I see a very very damaged woman being shredded.

As a woman I will never forget this moment in Ex Mormon history.

I hope Bishop does not walk free. But he probably will.

This is a tragedy. McKenna self sabatoged, hurt herself and others, lost her credibility then she got eviceraed, and now the perp is about walk free. The church won this round. What a strategy.

Tragic all around.

Lori C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a woman I will never forget this moment in Ex
> Mormon history.

As a victim of the Mormon church I empathize with exMormons wanting the Mormon Church to suffer and getting let down.

> Tragic all around.

But mostly for the victims. When you've been abused and people won't believe you while they hold you to impeccable witness standards it feels like you are going crazy.

This woman encapsulates the tragedy well.

"Mormon men, in general, cannot imagine a scenario in which they would be sexually assaulted by a church leader and then repeatedly blamed for that assault. Mormon men, in general, can much more easily imagine a scenario in which it is alleged that a family member assaulted others and they personally have to experience the shame and embarrassment that accompanies that knowledge. This is why men protect men. And this is why an all-male power structure will always disproportionately harm women. And this is why this power structure must now finally be changed."
https://www.the-exponent.com/guest-post-open-letter-to-the-mtc-abuse-victim-and-the-lds-church-mormonmetoo/

That was so powerful thank you so much.

Yes sadly most men will protect men.


As the days go on I think McKenna’s shortcomings will fade in my mind and what will remain is the visceral screams of that phone call. That anger has edged its self in my soul and I will always be reminded of what men are capable of doing to women. Deserved Or not.

The entire proclamation of the family and the church puts men above women. And clearly men feel that they can maintain the power through violence and threats.


As I said before the entire situation is tragic, But I for one feel a lot less safe in the X Mormon community. As a woman I learned that men can become wolves and destroy you and take pride in their kills.

Many years ago I worked as an officer in a maximum-security prison. I could never look at those men as evil simply because I had to be among them. Incarceration truly is a punishment, but you can serve your time and go out to the general population, but here you can be tried and executed all in the same day just because one person says so.

I hope McKenna Gets the help she needs. I hope she can find healing as well as those of her victims.


Patriarchy has a long long lineage of destroying women. They burned witches, imprisoned suffragettes, murdered Mormon apostates, and publicly eviscerated a woman .

I share your hope that Denson and her victims get the help they need.

I also hope that we find out the truth about Bishop and the church. It may well be that because of her ethical flaws Denson's charges can no longer receive the objective hearing they deserve. But it shouldn't end there. If there are other women--as one of our fellow posters has stated--I hope they come forward so their claims can be evaluated and the church's behavior exposed to the light of day.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If there
> are other women--as one of our fellow posters has
> stated--I hope they come forward so their claims
> can be evaluated and the church's behavior exposed
> to the light of day.

If they followed what happened to the least among them (poor McKenna) they will glimpse what could happen to them and what they probably have tried to put behind them for a long time - the protracted pain from their patriarchy.

>>but here you can be tried and executed all in the same day

Here? On this board? I understand that there was one questionable post that disappeared before I saw it. But from what I've seen, responses to McKenna's problems have been fair and even-handed here.

I think we would all love for Joseph Bishop to get justice for his misdeeds. But this now will become someone else's job.

Sometimes it takes a group to bring someone to justice. I've told the story before, but I was attacked on a dark path on my college campus. The same man went on to attack 4-5 other women. We did not all testify at his trial. One woman was chosen by prosecutors to testify and from what I was told, she did a great job. I was her backup, but they did not need to use my testimony. This does not mean that I did not get justice, or that the other women did not get justice. The man got a long sentence. Collectively, we got the job done.

It may be the same for McKenna. Not everyone makes for a good witness. This is not her fault. But perhaps justice for her can come via another channel.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2019 06:45PM by summer.