So the story of Jesus throwing out the money changers at the temple always rubbed my grandma the wrong way. She was a devout mormon and for some reason she almost seemed defensive of the money changers. Stating that most christians interpret that story wrong.


It has been a long time. I don't think she told me any specifics, but she definitely thought the money changers should be there... that it must have been that they were doing something sketchy when they were changing the money and thats why Jesus flipped.

Anyone have any similar experience with this story?

Well, since there are literally money changers inside every mormon temple renting special white outfits, or food, mormons have to have a problem with that part of the bible.

If mormons have to choose between following the prophet or following Jesus, which one will they choose? (Hint: it's not Jesus.)

This seems right to me.

From what I can understand (the explanations are complicated, and deal with specific history I am unfamiliar with), the courtyard of the Second Temple (means: in the time of Jesus) functioned as an international bank, where a Jew could pay a local tax, or where animals could be purchased for sacrifice, where funds for what we would call a savings account could be deposited, or where (in a yeasty time and place) diverse international currencies could be changed for the specific local coinage needed (most importantly, as I understand, for Jews to be able to pay that particular tax which applied to Jews only).

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/money-changers

I scanned some of the Christian explanations, and (as a Jew), they are confusing because they seem to conflate Jewish realities with Christian apologetics as if they are they same thing, and they're not.

I am not sure I understand any better now than I did fifteen minutes ago, but this will at least get you started.

This is correct. Jesus took exception to the well-established tradition of money changing in the courtyard, thinking it should not occur anywhere near the temple.

That's historically accurate (as far as we understand the life of someone named Jesus) and is Christian orthodoxy. The situation becomes more problematic for Mormons for the reason Aloysius outlines. My guess is that some LDS would feel uncomfortable with Jesus's anger in light of the very similar practices that occur within Mormon temples.

You should have seen what he did to a Pepsi machine that took his money.

PepsiCo share values tanked and it took a decade to recover.

For verily, the Lord in his righteous anger decreed: "Let the multitudes have free Pepsi," whereupon all Pepsi machines around the world began spitting out and dispensing all manner of PepsiCo beverages without receipt of coin. Neither was the pushing of any buttons required and this did persist for the space of a fortnight and did not cease until the multitude had had their fill of PepsiCo beverages, yeah even until the smallest child had burped out abundant gas from the excess thereof.

Plus (by my understanding) Jesus was upset because the poorer people of the countryside were being financially crushed by both the "temple tax" (the 10% tithe going to the Jewish priestly class,) along with the Roman taxes. And if by chance they did make it as far as the temple, their meager animal sacrifices were looked down upon.

Yes. That is right. The combination of commerce in the temple and the class-structure of Jewish worship at the time: those are what upset Jesus.

Summer, I was told that there were high rates of interest when you changed regular money for money allowed for temple use.

Very enlightening. Thank you, Tevai.

I was told he was mad the money changers were cheating the people by not paying fair value on goods and overcharging for the sacrificial critters and temple coins.

It's because Christianity is "slave morality" as one famous philosopher put it. There are plenty of rich Christian businessmen, but many violate the ethics of the religion. It fills people's heads with delusions of equality and a coming utopia, instead of the harshness of the universe.

Thanks for having the strength and moral fiber to tell RfM the truth!

Lead us to the Light!

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for having the strength and moral fiber to
> tell RfM the truth!
>
> Lead us to the Light!

True Christianity is about envying and denying success. The poor are "blessed", and "all have fallen short" (false statement of human equality).

This much is indisputable - Jesus says we should all be servants or slaves, and that rich people won't get into heaven, unless they give their money to those who turn up at the end of the working day (see Parable of the Vineyard).

Thanks a lot, elderolddog! Now I have that hymn,"Lead Kindly Light" going through my head! :)

This was the straw that broke the camel's back. Until that time Jesus was just a revolutionary thorn in the sanhedrin's side. But when he started dipping into their cash flow he had to be eliminated.
Historically this was the point at which the fervor to do away with this rabbi accelerated into an obsession



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2019 12:12PM by thedesertrat1.

(same applies to Book of Mormon stories) as a type of Rorschach test (the "tell me what you see" inkblot tests). The fact that your grandma had some problems with it was probably more of an indication of where her concerns and mind was at than anything particularly relevant to the story itself.

The Bible stories are always very short on detail. For believers, the assumption has to be that the money changers were bad people doing something wrong and disrespectful in the eyes of God. Based on what's in the story, you can somewhat reasonably extrapolate that Jesus condemned them for being materialistic people who were exploiting the temple and temple goers for personal/private profits and did not have a proper, unselfish, love-thy-neighbor orientation. Beyond that it's all external commentary, annotation and opinion.

It's like Jesus turning water into wine at the wedding feast. Mormons can't just read the story as is. They have to interpret the "ink blot" in a way that avoids conflict with their foolish "Word of Wisdom". "Well, it wasn't really WINE wine. It was grape juice. It was just referred to as 'wine' because...reasons."

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (same applies to Book of Mormon stories) as a type
> of Rorschach test (the "tell me what you see"
> inkblot tests). The fact that your grandma had
> some problems with it was probably more of an
> indication of where her concerns and mind was at
> than anything particularly relevant to the story
> itself.
>
> The Bible stories are always very short on detail.
> For believers, the assumption has to be that the
> money changers were bad people doing something
> wrong and disrespectful in the eyes of God. Based
> on what's in the story, you can somewhat
> reasonably extrapolate that Jesus condemned them
> for being materialistic people who were exploiting
> the temple and temple goers for personal/private
> profits and did not have a proper, unselfish,
> love-thy-neighbor orientation. Beyond that it's
> all external commentary, annotation and opinion.
>
> It's like Jesus turning water into wine at the
> wedding feast. Mormons can't just read the story
> as is. They have to interpret the "ink blot" in a
> way that avoids conflict with their foolish "Word
> of Wisdom". "Well, it wasn't really WINE wine.
> It was grape juice. It was just referred to as
> 'wine' because...reasons."

The miracle makes more sense if it was wine not grape juice.

In order to produce wine, it must ferment for an extended period. In order to produce grape juice, all you need to do is press grapes.

Red wine is also far darker in color, and resembles blood.

Whoosh.

selling snorkeling gear to gullible young Mormons planning to go do dead dunkings for their first time...you know as a safety measure because you never know what can happen in those deep, deep fonts. The dunker could pass out from fasting and land on top of the dunkee, for example, and you would need that little lifesaving pipe to stay alive until things could get sorted out.

Didn't really work out in the long run, so I've got a lot of surplus snorkeling gear in my car trunk if anyone is interested.

For anyone here who hasn't gone beyond the visitor's waiting area (I call it the holding pen), it's a jarring surprise for what's waiting beyond the recommend gate keepers. Before you reach the locker room area, there's a row of cash registers so anyone who wants or needs to, can rent any article of temple clothing. When I saw that,especially the first time we went through, that was the first thing that I thought: Money changers! There's also a cafeteria and vending machine. Since Jesus takes the time to appear in the temples now and again, I wonder if He takes a break and gets a snack?

I betcha Jesus has some very useful chip implants... One on each nipple, one at his belly button and one at his right knee. Tell me that doesn't make sense!

With coded implants, Ghawd, Inc. doesn't don't have to pay three shifts of Guardian Angels, whose union had gotten them some serious hourly wages, plus benefits!