I thought this was pretty funny, so I had to continue the thread. I haven't gone back to see if "your uncle" (was that his name?) replied to my posts.

So I'm just doing a few things around the house and the "ex" walks in. I said, "Oh, where have you been?" He told me he had been to the neighborhood party. I said, "What????" I said, "And you didn't invite me?" He said he left the invite on the counter the other day. I thought he left it there as a joke having taken if off the door.

So he went to the "neighborhood" party and sat with our daughter and her husband and her in-laws (we know them from living in this ward for 33 years along with them--great people). I started to laugh. He did say to me he knew I wouldn't have wanted to go as I never liked going to ward parties when I was mormon. He said our daughter never asked where I was. She knows how I feel about these parties, too.

My "ex" just can't get the mormon out of him. He went to last summer's "neighborhood" party, too. All the neighbor ladies stop to talk to him. He is considered mormon royalty still. I'm the fringe element still (which I'm thrilled about). I just think it is hilarious how he just can't help himself. He'd still believe and be active mormon if he wasn't gay. And all the ward members are probably so excited as maybe he has decided to go back and to "choose not" to be gay now. (Most of them still think that you choose to be gay.)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2019 10:56PM by cl2.

A long time ago in a singles ward far far away, I heard some of the single women singing that song making fun of a couple of cute guys that were gay they wanted to change. "I'm gonna wash that gay right out of their hair, and take him home with me."

It was obviously from the musical South Pacific. I know that because I am gay. Well I am, but can't stand most musicals. I remember that song because South Pacific musical was my mom's favorite.

They didn't know I was standing behind them in the lobby of the church of course on Sunday. I walked up to them and said, "Wow, that was really Christ like and you three hags make me not want to come to church. Way to go!"

I said it really loud and embarrassed them. They didn't have much to say after that.

CL2 said, "He'd still believe and be active mormon if he wasn't gay."

Does he still really believe in the mormon doctrine after all this time even though he is gay?

I sometimes wonder about how much he does or doesn't believe as he will debate me and some of the other nonbelievers over different aspects of mormonism and I'm always shocked, but then he'll tell me he is atheist.

He complains about the mormons, but then he does things like this all the time.

I never did like mormon culture, but he did. Some day he just shocks me. I really do believe if mormonism accepted gays just as they are and allowed them to be married in the temple, etc., he'd be a mormon.

I'm sure you know I'm his "wife." We've been "separated" since 1996, just not divorced. I went to the leaders when I found out he was gay BEFORE we were married hoping that they would tell me he was going to be okay as up to that point, all I'd ever heard from leaders (1983) was that he was a pervert, but I knew him. I knew he wasn't. I wanted him to be okay. They told me he was damned unless he changed. I didn't want him to be alone. I knew he couldn't change no matter what they told me. I have a journal I kept at that time that was "secret." I wrote it in there many times that I knew he couldn't change. I wanted him to be able to not be alone, to be able to find someone and be happy. But all they gave me was hell and damnation. We married eventually for so many reasons--one was desperation, one was getting the leaders out of our lives, etc.

No matter who you are if you live in Utah and someone puts a note on your door asking you to a neighborhood party (last year it was at the bishop's house next door), you know it is a "missionary" tool. So I am SO SHOCKED when he goes to these things. He doesn't want to be straight. I guarantee you that one. Never has wanted to be. He fits right into mormon culture and I think it has been difficult for him to let go. He is the one who told our daughter that "your mother has never been happy as a mormon." Yep. I didn't know it. It was NEVER a good fit for me or anyone in my family. His whole family is so culturally mormon, it is kind of vomit inducing. His sister who has been excommunicated still believes. She was excommunicated for cheating on her husband and has carried on multiple affairs with married men for YEARS (over 30 years with 2 guys). But she still believes.

There are "women" we know from the singles ward we met in who still invite him to dinner. They never married. He USUALLY turns them down or at least he tells me has.

I have a boyfriend of 15 years. My ex and I just happened to end up living together in the house "we" bought (I paid on it for 20 years by myself) because I moved to Colorado with my boyfriend for a year some years back and so he moved in to take care of the house. He lives downstairs and I live upstairs with our son. My boyfriend and I don't live together because he is too territorial--my boyfriend. We tried the living together. He won't even let me hang a picture of my choosing on the wall. It has to be how he wants everything. My therapist and I have been through why it is this way. My therapist says most couples our age don't end up living together. I'm 62 and my boyfriend is 66. My boyfriend comes here for dinner every evening. The 2 of them get along.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2019 09:03AM by cl2.

CL2,
I have read many of your posts over the years and am familiar with your story. I must say, you have an old soul, full of love and compassion. I need to be more like that. My husband is helping me become more compassionate. He will often call me a “green blooded Vulcan”, (We both love Star Trek) when I get too logical. He is a Sicilian born Italian who is all emotion, and I love him to death. In our case, two opposites really do attract. I went to Rome, Italy on my mission so I love the irony that I married a 100% Italian that I met in Salt Lake City. We have been together for 14 years and knock on wood, many more.

It really does sound like your Ex just can’t let it go. Would the word dichotomy work here? He hates it, but he loves it, but he hates it, but he loves it. It sounds exhausting emotionally and physically. On my journey out of the church, my truth came to me with these two sentences.

“You can be gay or be Mormon. You can’t be both.”

That was my light bulb moment. I never liked church, never had a feeling of the spirit, and could have given two shits about the doctrine. I mostly remember how limiting the Mormon god was, the back biting, the pettiness of the members and just how everybody always had this (Amway smile) on their face. Nothing was real. So that side was easy to let go. Being gay never felt bad or evil to me. I remember as a kid the first time I saw Gil Gerard with his shirt off in Buck Rogers in the 25th Century. I thought, “Hmmmmm. I like that.” (He did seem to take his shirt off a lot in that show). My mom wasn’t overbearing, and my dad wasn’t a weenie. I remember reading church psychologists stating that could cause homosexuality.
So, when I was finishing up school at Utah State, I decided to be gay over being a Mormon. It just sounded logical. That was my truth. The church had no truth, and I felt liberated.

I feel bad your Ex has the want and need to keep association with the church. I guess the indoctrination kept a hold on him. As I stated earlier, the push pull of the church has got to be exhausting for him and somewhat for you. I say somewhat as having read your posts over time, it sounds like you have found your truth and live accordingly. And your “above it all” demeanor throughout time makes me humbled.

Me and my husband have gotten to know a lot of younger guys over the years that are battling being gay and wanting to stay in the church. I have learned to be quiet and let them talk it out and just listen. Inevitably, they start asking us how we dealt with being gay and a Mormon at the same time. After the long discussions, in the end, I tell them the same thing I told myself. “You can be gay or be Mormon. You can’t be both.” Recently, we became good friends with a 26-year-old guy from YBU. He really thinks all the changes Rusty is making are good and he truly believes that Rusty and the church will eventually accept gays and gay marriage. I told him that was wishful thinking and it will never happen. Even if the church had “revelation” to accept gays and gay marriage, how many would go back? I know I wouldn’t.

Peace be with you



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2019 07:51PM by rosysam.

and grew up that way. His father was a bishop for 9 years. His parents had a horrible marriage. His father was looking for his plural wives all through their marriage. He had picked one of the women in the ward for his FIRST wife and told his wife, she would be #2. Of course, the woman didn't know about this. His dad was still stalking young college students in his 80s. He was picked up twice. But they put on a good show.

I grew up in a family where what you see is what you get--at least with my dad. My dad never acted any other way than what he was and so our family was not treated like mormon royalty, although after coming here I found out we are. That's hysterical if you ask me. My husband told our daughter some years ago (after our daughter went back) that "your mother was never happy as a mormon." Nope. I just thought it was what I had to do. He liked being a mormon. Even our daughter was shocked when he went to the dinner. He is still angry at me for not going to bishopric temple nights back in the mid 1990s. My therapist said, "So you were worthy to go and he wasn't, but you were the bad guy?" Yep. He just told me recently that he always had to make up an excuse for me and I said, "Why didn't you tell them I DIDN'T WANT TO GO!"

I think the double life he lived including his parents' marriage and all the drama they grew up with and then went to church and acted like everything was perfect--not just being gay and living a double life. He has never really been taught how to have a relationship. He struggles in all relationships including his kids. A lot of the work comes from us--especially emotionally.

Believe me, I'm not so caring and understanding. I hated him for a long time, but he deserved it. It was one thing to leave, but how he treated us was really unforgivable. He is lucky we have anything to do with him. Once in a while (like when our last dog died) he breaks down and tells me how sorry he is he did what he did to us. I can be very mean and vicious!! Ask him. Ha ha ha ha ha

But, yes, I really wish he could find someone and settle down. He has had those opportunities, but he throws them all away.

And in reply to the comments below--yes, isn't it shocking in this day and age that people still think gays CHOOSE to be gay.

And you for sure cannot be mormon and gay. It isn't possible. It is really sad to me that after all these years (I found out he is gay in 1983), that young gays still struggle with this. No, the church will never accept gay marriage or gay relationships in any fashion. Not even emotionally. Just like those weird comments someone posted from the Greek orthodox guy and the rabbi--how closed minded are people??

And rosysam, it always does my heart good to hear of good gay relationships. It gives me hope. My nephew has a gay son who just graduated from high school. I have had not such a good relationship with my sister, but I made sure I went to his graduation party and his response to the fact I showed up has been amazing. I can tell it meant a lot to him.

I’m still amazed, but not really shocked, that Mormons think being gay is a choice. That explains a lot. It’s SO obvious that being gay isn’t a choice and that people are just born one way or the other that this just blows me away. The rest of the world knows this. Mormons live on another planet.
Your post also really demonstrates how being Mormon royalty / your social standing takes precedence over anything else. I noticed this when I was in the Morg, but this is real evidence of that.