Growing up in the church I was taught that the reason so much evil happens is because bad dudes have Free Agency.

So why does Satan's bad guys Free Agency over rule Jesus and the Good Guys agency?

Why can't the victims say, I have Free Agency not to get hurt and Bingo the bad guy can't hurt us.

Why is this BS concept all one way?

Why is health not contagious, but disease is?
Why does war break out so easily, and not peace?
Years spent building a good reputation can be lost with one bad act.
Why are acts of courage relatively rare, and thus newsworthy, but not acts of cowardice?
“A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on.” (Charles Spurgeon)
Why are we so prone to doing the things we shouldn't, but so resistant to doing the things we should?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2019 09:25AM by caffiend.

And weeds are stronger, more resilient and prolific than flowers, alas.

"War And Rememberance," Auschwitz selection scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O-8BceNdm8



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2019 09:21AM by anybody.

"Evil is livE, backward!"
--John Wilkes Booth

Exactly!

I remember having a conversation like this at church:


Me: How could God let that child be murdered?

Church guy: The murder had free agency.

Me: How come the child didn't get free agency to not be murdered?

Church guy: It makes Heavenly Father sad, but sometimes actions we take have consequences.

Me: Huh?!


God always gets a pass, never the blame. None of that nonsense makes any sense.

Unfortunately, it is indispitable that a lot of the evil that occurs in this world is a result of people's bad choices.

True, but claiming the victim has free agency is a farce.

No, the "bad dudes" have free agency, not the victim. The victims freedom is in fact taken away by the bad dude.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> True, but claiming the victim has free agency is a
> farce.

They do, up to a point. For example, if someone attacks or robs you on the street, you can defend yourself - maybe successfully, maybe unsuccessfully, but at least you tried to. I mostly agree with you, but with this minor variation.

I think victims can also make choices that will help them or other people afterwards e.g. You may also choose to report the incident, which may lead to your attacker receiving a criminal record or being taken off the street.

Also, if someone suffer from trauma as a result of other's evil, it is best to work out ways to deal with it e.g. medical help, rather than sitting on it (which is what people did after WWI with terrible consequences).

They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say… let 'em crash!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn0WdJx-Wkw

There is NO SUCH THING AS "FREE" AGENCY!
Agency, that is, the right to choose is expensive. It is a behavior and for EVERY behavior there is a consequence.
H O W E V E R as a human being we may coose our path. Even when it appears there is no choice.
Evil happens because somebody chooses to do evil.
Even in a confined environments you can choose. Sometimes the choice is detrimental to the well being of the human involved but I cannot believe that the cause of evil is agency.

OKAY Y'ALL
It is now time to jump on my shoulders and do your tap dance on my head!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2019 01:34PM by thedesertrat1.

Alan XL turn it around. It doesn't go one way.

Growing up in the church I was taught that the
reason so much good happens is because good dudes
have Free Agency.

So why do Jesus' good guys Free Agency over rule
Satan and the Bad Guys agency?

Why can't the victims say, I have Free Agency not
to get good done to me and Bingo the good guy can't do good to us.

Good and Evil are concepts. Not real things with a reality of choosing between them. There are no gods reinforcing their reality.

Free will is probably a human invention. Our minds are so complex, we have trouble understanding ourselves. Individual reality is a construct made of sensory input and processing. When another person's reality imposes itself upon me, I insist on the right to resist. The Mormon reality imposed on me from birth is offensive to me. Even now, at this late stage, Mormon family pursues me online and tries to shut me up. Evil speaks glowingly of free agency with words, but in practice, the evil do all they can to stop the same agency from exposing them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2019 05:01PM by donbagley.

With their lips they draw close to agency but with their minds they are far from it.

"The charlatans with their quivering lips."

--Birdman

Perfect.

Their quivering lips draw close to the Lord but their quivering hips are far from him.

Your reply proves free will. No one forced you to make it, and no deepseated biological instinct did either.

Who made it? The homunculus inside his brain? We think we have freewill because we can moderate our behaviors thinking we are thinking them consciously to be. We aren't. Our unconscious rules and we tell ourselves we do what we do creating conscious reasons and using conscious reasoning.

The choosing animal isn't free. It has volition. Most creatures with complex brains have volition. Because we narrate to ourselves why we do what we do don't mean we have the freedom to influence what we do fundamentally.

If we had freewill many things about people which are false would be true such as choosing to be homosexual.

Who made it? He did. As previously stated.

The concept of Free Agency bothered me even as a TBM. If you listen to the church, you are punished if you exercise your "free agency". The way things are set up, you follow the rules or you don't get to the Celestial kingdom. You have no choice in the matter.

The only way it made "sense" to me, is that you are free to choose the consequence of your action, meaning that your agency was far from "free".

I never really resolved this until I left the church and realized that it was just something I put on my "shelf" and tried not to look at that closely.

Sometimes things don’t go your way. Things always go God’s way. We have a weird God.

If you were able to map out ghawd's actions in the lives of all his children, it would show up as the Bell-Shaped Curve, in terms of moving from really horrible to really wonderful. "Average" would be the peak of the bell.

I have 'agency' (choice) to be nude where & whenever I choose, but that won't last for long, Damn It!!

and the cop-out of assigning evil to an otherworldly "Satan" allows it to continue - free agency notwithstanding - because the essence of evil is placed safely outside of and beyond the "me." This way, it does not need confronted, to be grappled with. It's safely "out there."

Carl Jung argued that darkness is within us - and this darkness within needs to be seen fully and completely exposed and known, else we see ourselves as good while engaging in evil. After all, concentration camps were built and operated by respectable citizens who had families they loved. Could I have then, could I do that today? Could I follow orders to ensure "the greater good"?

“The greatest crimes in the world are not committed by people breaking the rules but by people following the rules. It’s people who follow orders that drop bombs and massacre villages.” - Banksy

Evil happens because we are capable of it. Humans will do what humans can do.

Oh, my!!

How can you say that!?

Some things just aren't natural!!!


/s

God's inability to defend the agency of the innocent is made bare by tornados, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. HE is either impotent, uncaring, or evil.

The bottom line is that since god is the source of everything and satan has an infinite capacity for evil than god must also have an infinite capacity for evil.

I blame god for the evil in the universe because god is the source of the universe.