My sister almost killed herself once. She had bulimia and cut her arm. But she recovered, and now she works as a social worker. She works with young women exclusively, who got into trouble because they could afford to (their parents were rich). My sister has no problem getting paid by their rich parents, and now my sister, my younger sister, has bought her own house. I live in an apartment.

The irritating thing is that you would think that if my sister has experienced deep depression, and if she works with depressed people all the time, she would want to listen to my personal problems, which have a lot to do with Mormonism, and how Mormonism affects men in particular. But she doesn't. More to the point, she can't. She does not have the curious, patient, academic nature I have, that you need if you are going to research the truth of the Church. I was always a "brain", and she wasn't. I would welcome a close family member who truly understands how the Church has interfered with my life, and my ability to earn more money, but unfortunately she is not that family member.

The "best and the brightest" usually don't go into psychology and social work. They go into law, medicine, engineering, finance, business management, and academia. People who end up in psychology and social work often get there because they couldn't hack it in the more difficult professions. Sometimes they end up there because they had their own mental problems, as is the case with my sister. Highly intelligent psychologists and social workers do exist, but they are hard to find. I'm glad my sister survived and is prospering, but sad that even after all the education she has accumulated, she still cannot understand the mindset of people who can no longer believe in the Church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2013 03:30PM by behindcurtain.

I'd suggest not painting a whole profession in light of your experience with your sister. Both professions require degrees and certifications and don't involve people just spontaneously deciding to do them and going out and opening a practice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2013 03:15PM by squeebee.

And keep in mind if she's a TBM that hearing the impact on the church on you is challenging her world view, which she likely has no interest in doing.

>
> The irritating thing is that you would think that
> if my sister has experienced deep depression, and
> if she works with depressed people all the time,
> she would want to listen to my personal problems,
> which have a lot to do with Mormonism, and how
> Mormonism affects men in particular. But she
> doesn't. More to the point, she can't.

Maybe she doesn't want to spend her off time dealing with other people's problems Since you view psychology and social work as careers for people who weren't capable of "higher" professions, she possibly picks up on your disdain for her career choice. Why would she ever want to listen to your issues if you have such contempt for social work/psychology?

The best counselors and psychologists have had issues themselves. After all, how would you be able to understand what a person is going through if you never experienced the pain of mental/emotional illness?

Psychologist and social workers tend to get to get forced into hearing about people's problems just by general knowledge on what they do for a living.

When you're listening to people's problems all day, it because frustrating to having to be one for free for a family member, friend, or stranger. So while you are trying to tell her about your problems with Mormonism, she'll be going 'I just got off work and now I have to do my job for longer. I just want to relax.' in her head.

It's pretty much like the rude people who ask family/friend who is a teacher that they come to their house and tutor their kid for free during the school year.

behindcurtain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The "best and the brightest" usually don't go into
> psychology and social work. They go into law,
> medicine, engineering, finance, business
> management, and academia. People who end up in
> the psychology and social work often get there
> because they couldn't hack it in the more
> difficult professions.

I think this is complete b.s. - sour grapes because your sister is financially successful and you are not even though you are the more intelligent of the two. Your sister may not be a very good psychologist and she may be insensitive as a brick wall. She may be dumb as dirt but psychology and social work are NOT easy professions and in most cases require intelligent and strong people. And I'm not just saying that defending them because I am one or am married to one. I'm an editor and my husband is in the medical profession but not in any way in the mental health aspect of it. I'm just saying don't dis the profession because your sister isn't one of the brightest bulbs in the psychological chandelier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2013 03:25PM by CA girl.

I agree with this. I could say the same thing about teaching as a profession. You know that old joke, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym, amirite?"

I work with teachers. In my experience dealing with them on a daily basis, I might conclude that 80% of them are dumber than a bag of hammers. That's probably not true. I am expecting them to have professional knowledge (how to edit a document in Acrobat, for example) that is not really part of their training or necessary skillsets to their profession.

If it wasn't sour grapes, you might not have wrtten this, "my younger sister, has bought her own house. I live in an apartment." Why is that relevant to anything unless you felt compelled to expose your jealousy?

Either way, what you might be missing is there could be an ethical issue on her part with regard to family members as clients. Also, I don't work for free. I don't know why you would expect her to. That would be like if my family members expected me to edit their papers and letters as a personal favor. Or if you were a mechanic, being expecte to fix all the family's cars for free, on your own free time. If I was a social worker, or counselor, or a therapist or doctor, I can assure you, I would not only not take on family members, but I would not do it at home for free on my days off. Not fair to expect her to. Get your own therapist and pay for it. Otherwise, I might remind you: you get what you pay for.

One other thought: How terribly mormon is it to expect a family member to provide professional services for free. Aren't we often complaining on these boards about family members/mormons expecting freebies?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2013 03:49PM by dogzilla.

dogzilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with this. I could say the same thing
> about teaching as a profession. You know that old
> joke, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
> Those who can't teach, teach gym, amirite?"

Those who can't teach, teach teachers, is how I heard it

Sounds to me like you have jelousy issues with your sister.... you start out complaining that she is buying a house, while you still have to rent...... can I point out that a good big sister would be happy for her?.... this is a GOOD thing. You make it clear that you don't respect her and even cut her down, then twist it to make her sound bad for not wanting to hear you complain...... sorry but you are the one who came off sounding like the selfish unsupportive one. How about you forget about what you want from your sister, for a while, and focus on what you can do for her...... like show support and congratulate her on her accomplishments.......it is NOT easy to overcome personal issues, and work your butt off in school so that you in turn can help others.....I'm willing to bet she's picking up on your attitude.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2013 04:52PM by closer2fine.

I think it takes more than brains to figure out the obvious. It takes desire.

I have a truly brainy friend who has his PhD. He got through Vanderbilt university on full scholarship. He knows there is something wrong with Mormonism. He can't let it go. He can't discuss it intelligently without going off into fantasy land. It's annoying but you can lead a horse to water but not make him drink. You are lucky to be a realist. Many are just too afraid of reality.

Why on earth would you expect your TBM sister to listen to your problems with the church, even if she is a social worker? First, as a close relative, she should not be providing you counseling. Second--she's TBM. In theory that religious background shouldn't matter w/ a skilled therapist, but in practice--it does. It just does. There is no way in HELL I would take my church-related issues to a TBM therapist. You are expecting way too much from your sister in this regard.

In addition, I also agree with the other posters that you need to tone down your rhetoric regarding the supposed intellectual prowess of those that choose the mental health field. It's mean spirited and incorrect. I've met incredibly intelligent and skilled counselors and therapists and I have also met the biggest idiots and blunderers who are attorneys and doctors. These aren't rare examples either.

If your sister overcame her demons and is now helping others--good for her!! I would hate it if my depression and OCD-filled past disqualified me from a meaningful career. Shouldn't we want people to recover and lead productive lives? If she hasn't quite mastered visualizing how TSCC can damage peoples lives--it's something she can work on (and probably will if she lives in a highly TBM area) but not with you.

You on the other hand might benefit from focusing less on your sister and more on your own recovering which seems to be stalled and certainly will not progress as long as you allow yourself to be poisoned with jealousy over your sister's success. The church didn't work for you--but it seems to be working for her. Forget her house and her paycheck and focus on improving you. No one else matters.

people I have ever met. He is also an exmo--left the lds church in his 20s.

I am a psychologist who does research into memory and learning processes. I got into it because I wanted to study why people think and behave the way they do. I have no interest in counselling and clinical psychology is only one facet of a very broad field: the study of human behavior.

Psychologist friends of mine are involved with research into road/traffic safety, aircraft cockpit design, gambling behavior, training dogs to avoid kiwi (a rare native bird), and the neurological effects of addictive drugs. Nice to know we all just couldn't hack more difficult work.

You would be surprised at the number of attorneys and business people that go into the helping professions. I have two lawyers working in my school right now -- one as a teacher and one as an assistant principal. I used to work in sales, which was a walk in the park compared to teaching.

Social work is a very demanding profession that often causes extreme burnout. Expecting your Mormon sister to listen to your exMormon problems is simply unrealistic on a number of levels. Let her take a break from her job while you find your own counselor. Don't expect what she can't deliver.

It takes interest, aptitude and hard work to make it in a profession. Maybe her problems led to her interest in psychology and then to an interest in helping others avoid those same problems. Kind of like Mormon train wreck survivors on this board.

Choose to be here. Tell life you’re here, now, and grateful for what you have. Say it out loud so your body hears it. You don’t need “the next thing” to be happy because you’re not on the “I’ll be happy when” treadmill. That’s for Mormons, you don’t need it. Be okay with being here and then your root chakra will be grounded. Life will run smoother that way.

Hon, you are anything but glad that your sister survived and is prospering. Your sister’s life and those of the rich parents who allegedly pay her are none of your business. Do yourself a favor: Re-read your first paragraph and feel the condemnation oozing out. Girls who get in trouble because they can afford to? Oy vey.
Time for you to focus that keen intellect on fixing you. Like the song from Over The Rhine, all my favorite people are broken. Time to get undamned. Forgive everyone, starting with you.

My older brother who passed away last year was TBM and a psychiatric social worker who treated families in his profession.

He liked what he did, and helped a lot of people. He worked hard to get there, returning to college after marrying and starting a family first since that was the order for returned missionaries coming home off missions. Find a wife, get married, have children. He had to quit college in order to support the wife and children. Later he was so tired of being working poor, he felt forced to go back to college to pull himself up by the bootstraps.

But that is what he did. It took him longer than had he done it fresh from high school (the normal American way.) He appreciated his education more I think because he had to work so hard to achieve his goals.

His wife? A Mormon American Princess. She quit her job on the day they got married and hasn't worked a day since (inside or outside the home.) My brother was doing diaper duty, childcare etc when the children were small. As they grew older and they adopted some, the older ones became the caretakers to the younger ones. Particularly the oldest adopted daughter. She became the maid servant of the family. And made to feel like she was incompetent to attend school so she was kept home and made into a special needs child, like the rest of her adopted siblings were. My SIL was able to collect more money from the state that way for them. That little girl grew up however, and rebelled at 24. She moved back to where she came from. My brother tried to talk her out of it saying she couldn't take care of herself. (That's because they never let her become self-sufficient or even educated!) My dad used to tell me she was highly intelligent and it was a shame what they were doing to her. Finally last year she called me after my brother's death to talk. She was the only one of their many children not to attend his funeral. She is the only one they don't acknowledge now. She told me how abused she'd been all those years (emotional not physical.) She has made it on her own, but now with no family. Her biological mother lives close by but they have little in common. She's held down the same job for the past 6-7 years @ a department store, and living independently despite my brother telling her she'd never make it on her own. Well she has so far. I asked her why my brother would allow that to go on under his roof for all those years? She told me that he didn't want to cause any friction between his wife and himself, so he'd go along with her to get along including how they cared for and treated their adopted children. She got the short end of the stick though. She told me when they'd go on family vacations my brother and his wife would buy souvenirs for their other children, but not her. She'd have to buy her own. Hearing that just made my stomach churn. She was their first adopted daughter. After a certain age, instead of treating her like their child, she was treated like their maid. I find that despicable and deplorable.

I've been blessed by knowing a very fine woman who was a LDS social worker my senior year of high school, who ran a program I lived in while finishing high school with other girls in Silicon Valley. They were from very wealthy homes, like your sister was working for (such families.) Only our social worker didn't get paid directly for her services, but an administrative fee for running the program. She didn't get wealthy off running ours. I was the only Mormon living in the program there during the time it was in operation.

Other LDS social workers I've known were questionable with questionable credentials. They're a mixed bag. You have to be careful with who you go to for treatment since not all are the same. That's true for the health field in general though.

My brother's religion was never in question. He held to it his life through. His wife may have been more of a cultural Mormon, but he never was. He was a Mormon apologetic right up to his dying breath. If I tried presenting him with evidence to the contrary he had an explanation for every subject. Even if it wasn't plausible except only to him and those from TSCC that must sit around thinking these explanations up for when such discussions take place. It sounded like nonsense to my ears, but to him it made perfect sense even if none of it was founded in historical fact.

He was very supportive of my being Jewish however. For that I give him credit. As for my SIL and the two younger bio children I do not consider family of mine since his death. They don't act like family. I knew when my brother died, their adopted children stand to inherit nothing. My SIL and her bio children will take whatever he spent his lifetime achieving after they divide what he left among themselves. I find that incredibly sad and abhorrent.

My brother was in the process of selling his near .5m home to downsize when he died. His life savings was tied up in that house, so my SIL will take all, while all he got was a dirt nap for his life's work.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2019 09:14AM by Amyjo.