Last night I was fortunate and blessed to have enjoyed the company of my many siblings and parent. All are from outward appearance and manner very TBM.

Conversation focused primarily on how being LDS would help specific people they know be better and happier and it teetered on condemning/assuming some bad things about people who leave the church.

The best moment was when my Bishop brother mentioned someone in his shepherding care who explained to him all the historical problems with the book of mormon.

My Bishop Brother explained how this made him feel and that the darkness brought on by this soon to be apostate person was of Satan and that this person must be doing something seriously wrong in his life to have brought those feelings into the room so strongly.

Moments later he says, "I teach my children that to be kind is always better than to be right".

I'm remain "befuddled".

Of Course it doesn't make sense. It's classic TBM

"Classic TBM," --to quote Dr. No. Textbook. Arrogance cloaked in humility.

They are reinforcing their insecure decision to stay TBM by trying to justify it to you and each other. Doesn't take a degree in psychology to see what is going on here.

And . . .

One can be kind and right at the same time if one acts with a lot of empathy and a little class. Alas, they teach neither of those in their Sunday School even though they would swear they do.

And of course, that bad feeling about the truth of church history was actually just a tidal wave of cognitive dissonance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2019 12:56PM by Soft Machine.

That is quite rude, assuming that you have left the church and/or have spoken out against it?
This is typical mormon spiel, but they really do think that way. Unfortunately this results in some very unchristian behaviour.

Mystery is your friend. I wouldn't doubt if their suspicions about you sparked the whole conversation. Enjoy the ride. There is a funny side to all this.

As I am an adulteress. I like to mention that. I get a big kick out of it. The neighbors HAVE TO KNOW. I mean my boyfriend comes over all the time and we go places all the time, especially Sundays. They see me with my mug and popcorn bucket. Oh, I need to buy the new one. We always go on Sundays to movies as we are in Utah.

The neighbors adore me, but then they invite me to church things. They mow my lawn and I pay well. I've always done things for the 6 kids. In fact, I just bought their Christmas gifts.

I think people tend to wonder about those of us who have left if they spend any time with us. My therapist's leader when he was in the stake high council and was leaving the church said, "I think you are a good man anyway." Oh, okay!

I had the darkest feeling ever when I got a letter from Boyd. I had to burn the thing as I couldn't just toss it. I kept it for a while in my glove compartment and every time I'd see it, I WOULD get a dark feeling. Lots of dark feelings on how they handled us and our situation. Nothing, absolutely nothing they said or did brought me peace, only stupors of thought and darkness.

I had one lady tell me she needed to bring me back into the light. She is the daughter of my mom's best friend. I told her I wish my parents were still alive so they could tell you what they think of that statement.

Like someone else has said, they fear us. They fear what we know and why we left. They fear we might just be right.

“They fear what we know and why we left. They fear we might just be right”.
Yes: this. I feel that when mormons start sounding off like this unprovoked, it sounds like a pre-emptive strike.
In my observations it can go in two ways: some mormons treat us better than when we were mormons because they recognise we no longer operate from the same rule book; it’s almost as though sometimes we are a breath of fresh air to them and they can relax. After all, we are hardly going to be judging them either. I just realised this about my best friend (other thread); she can talk to me as I’m the last person who is going to be judgmental. This is definitely a silver lining with some mormons, in an otherwise very dark cloud.
OR, you get people who are always so judgmental they even lack awareness of it, and will say things no normal human would, such as “bringing you back to the light”. Fortunately I haven’t experienced overt judgment in my face, but I can imagine running into certain church leaders and it would be a dark experience.
I don’t think you bring dark feelings to everyone. Some mormons I think might be secretly jealous which is why they are so outspoken with their judgments; they have to silence their feelings. Even as a VERY TBM I once responded to other mormons being judgmental about someone who left by saying: “Well maybe he just felt he had done his time”. They were silent. And then I realised I’d just unintentionally likened our church membership to a prison sentence; I waited for a backlash, but no one said a word!
I have dark feelings when I imagine what my family might really be thinking. It scares me, so I have to try not to think about it. As my friend said, I can’t really know, and they’re enjoying their lives and not apparently not worrying about me or my feelings, so why should I let it get to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2019 04:32PM by LJ12.

as my sister has been out to get me all my life, although we got along quite well for the years she was raising her kids. I knew someday something would happen that I couldn't hide from her that she had done and I didn't get angry about it to her, and 13 years ago it did. Our parents have both died since then. She was executor of the will by default as I turned it down, as did my brother as we were both getting divorced. Then my other sister, who my parents had made executor with her husband, divorced her husband, so my parents picked my older sister by default. She made a mess. She threw me out of the family. Now she is out of the family, but I'm trying to fix things so I can be around her kids (who don't dare have anything to do with me due to the wrath of their mother), but my nephew is now living here as his kids live 30 miles away and he is going through a divorce. His mother is very appreciative that I am watching out for him. Takes a load off her shoulders.

But a lot of things have been said about me. Shockingly horrible things. It gets under your skin. I "allowed" my kids to continue talking to her so they could still have a relationship with their cousins as they basically grew up as siblings. It would hurt when they spend time with her and the kids, but I owed it to my kids to not make them take sides.

So I'm hopeful that things will get better. I'm tired of it all. It doesn't matter what they say about us, we know who we are. But it hurts BADLY.

Actually, my other nephew invited me to his son's graduation party and I went. His son friended me on fb (I haven't had that much to do with him for 13 years--so he was small when this all happened) and he thanked me for coming to his party, then wrote me a thank you note and told me to ignore his grandmother, that she's a bit crazy. It made me cry. There are things you don't know about like what your brother really thinks. He has to make his wife happy. He has to be MORMON. Deep down, I tend to wonder what he is really thinking.

"I teach my children that to be kind is always better than to be right."

Lots of Mormons talk like this, but this type of thinking does not apply to people who have left the church. Mormons generally reserve a sort of psuedo-acceptance and kindness for people who they see as potential converts and exmos don't fall in that category.

I was thinking recently about how Mormons often like to give themselves and church leaders a pass by saying that people aren't perfect and everyone is just trying to do their best. That thinking only extends to them as well. As soon as you leave the church, you're not just a person like any other who is trying to make your way in the world and do your best. You're a person who is influenced by Satan and brings darkness everywhere you go.

I no longer go to church, but I recently had a conversation with the bishop of the ward I'm assigned to about an issue in the ward that was affecting me. He responded to my polite concern by insulting me with childish name calling and saying that I was letting the adversary influence my thinking. When I called him out on his bad behavior, he told me that I needed to understand that he was just an imperfect man who was trying to do his best in a difficult situation.

All of your observations are very astute and well put. I agree 100%. What your bishop said says everything about their double standards: WOW

Whenever you see an "either-or" formula like that being attached to something as vague as "being kind," you know you're going to be dealing with some serious nonsense.

Surgeon Dan: "Hey, Jack, I need a second opinion. They're telling me that maybe my hands are too shaky for me to be doing brain surgery. Ever since I started taking that medicine to treat my alcoholism, I've had some mild tremors, but I don't think they're significant at all. I look okay to you right? You'll back me up in my decision to go ahead with the operation this afternoon, right?"

Jack, wanting to be kind to his best friend and colleague, and studiously ignoring the cell phone and drinking glass that his friend has just dropped on the floor due to the tremors in his hands: "You look great Dan! Those other people are just jealous of your skills as a surgeon. You're gonna do great with that operation today. Go knock-em dead! Er...I mean I know you'll do great!"

befuddled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The best moment was when my Bishop brother
> mentioned someone in his shepherding care who
> explained to him all the historical problems with
> the book of mormon.
>
> My Bishop Brother explained how this made him feel
> and that the darkness brought on by this soon to
> be apostate person was of Satan and that this
> person must be doing something seriously wrong in
> his life to have brought those feelings into the
> room so strongly.

So...your Bishop Brother had no interest in the question of whether the historical problems were true. The only thing that mattered was how hearing about them made him feel. Hearing about the historical problems made him feel bad, so he interpreted his own uncomfortable feelings as being "of Satan". And since the historical problems were noticed by the "apostate person" and brought to Bishop Brother's attention, that means that the "apostate person" is an agent of Satan and is spreading "darkness" Satan.

Logically, that attitude is no different from thinking that your dentist is working for Satan because of the way you felt so bad when the dentist told you that you had cavities in your teeth that needed to be filled.

Bad news makes people feel bad. But bad news can also be true and factual.

Billy: Hey Bob, you know that investment fund that you've been investing in? The one managed by that Madoff guy who you claim is a good friend? Well, I've been doing some snooping around and it turns out that he's operating a ponzi scheme that's inevitably going to fall apart and since you're a latecomer as an investor....

Bob: Billy, why are you working for Satan? These dark, negative feelings I'm getting can only be from Satan. You must be doing something horribly wrong in your life to be bringing these dark feelings into this room so strongly.

“Logically, that attitude is no different from thinking that your dentist is working for Satan because of the way you felt so bad when the dentist told you that you had cavities in your teeth that needed to be filled.
Bad news makes people feel bad. But bad news can also be true and factual.”

I seriously feel like this should be put on a billboard, bumper sticker, or published somewhere just for all mormons to see!

it doesn't matter if the church is "right"?

I don't know how you can listen to that. Kudos for doing so for the sake of family harmony.

I personally would be dreaming of ways to mess with them. How about, "I don't know why some people have a problem with the prophet Joseph Smith sending his followers on missions and then having sex with their wives. After all, he did marry those wives. It's not like he was having unmarried sex." lol