What is happening here?
Is is possible that access to children is a significant reason for men to remain in tssc? Is it possible that accepting religious control of ones sexuality causes this kind of deviant behavior?


https://fox13now.com/2019/10/17/latter-day-saint-bishop-held-without-bail-after-child-pornography-investigation/

Their system of spiritual discernment has never worked. The church would keep all of their monsters out of the news if they could.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2019 10:34PM by messygoop.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2019 10:34PM by messygoop.

If you're looking to victimize a certain segment of the population, you naturally try to find a position that puts you next to the potential victims. The Catholic church knows this, as does the Boy Scout organization.

I suppose mormons have long known that Holy McGhost is useless when it comes to discernment, but they have to do all they can to hide this fact.

But what percentage of pedophilic bishops is acceptable? How about never letting any adult leaders be alone with a youth of the church?

EOD that is the standard for every mainstream denomination.

First, let's look at the available details. Bishop Hallows (ironic name, there!) is charged with possession and dissemination (pun intended) of child pornography--not pedophilic acts. Both are loathsome, but there is a qualitative difference. Second, his defense is that the images were "not real," meaning they may be Photoshopped, photo-manipulation, or 3D simulations. Whatever. Not a person who should hold that religious office. I'm sure RfMers will keep us posted.

But claiming it's "the standard for every mainstrean denomination" is grievously over-generalized. I'd qualify this as saying that churches with sacradotal doctrines are more vulnerable to these scandals. "Sacradotalism" is where clergy are given special spiritual powers and/or temporal authority over their congregants, as opposed to being shepherds, guides, and teachers. Such powers are claimed by RC and LDS clerics.

Incidentally, when my independent Baptist church bought a new building, we locked off the large basement, closed off a few other areas, and installed windows on every door. Also our pastor practices the "Billy Graham rule," of never being alone with a woman or child. That may seem silly to some, but it works.

Abuse of children and teens occurs in education, corporate, and political environments--witness Epstein and his network of corporate and political cronies.

But yes, people of a certain predilection will seek out target-rich environments, so OP Twinker is right.

Statistics vary, but often combine neglect along with physical, sexual, and psychological abuse. These problems are on the increase--probably a mix of improved reporting along with actual increase, which may well apply to LDS, but we'll probably never know for a precise certainty.

I bring this up as an analogy: We don't want to generalize about the perils and problems of state adoption and foster care programs, but we do want to acknowledge that in some states there is a serious problem. (E.g. Oregon is facing a class-action suit.) What we need to do is identify (1) where is it actually occurring (as opposed to our biased perceptions) and (2) what factors are present when child abuse is high.

Regarding #2, I suggested one factor above, with the perhaps too-sophisticated a term, "sacradotalism." I favor a church with "low" clergy, who are not "empowered" with special spiritual or temporal powers. So consider that a start.

See below.

Yes I acknowledge I made a sweeping statement. I was wondering about RC confession in that mix. The Episcopal church requires a person of both genders be with children at all times. The 60 something lady choir director told me my 11 and 14 year old daughters had to walk home alone in the August sun because she didn't have a man to ride with them if she gave them a lift. My daughters were no longer in the choir after that. I did the safe child training myself and quit teaching sunday school when I realized the purpose of the training was to protect the institution and not the child.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2019 01:16AM by siobhan.

Institutional structure matters.

Assume a constant rate of potential abusers in a general population. Some percentage of those people will actually molest, inevitably.

Then impose on that situation an institution that gives a subset of people, including potential abusers, easier access and some measure of authority to protect themselves. As a result of that institution, the rate of molestation will rise somewhat higher than would otherwise be the case. But if the institution is a large, strong one with an internal hierarchy one of whose duties is to protect the institution and its representatives, the rate of molestation will be higher still because the authority and protection functions are more developed.

This means that you can roughly predict higher and lower rates based on the organization within which the abuse occurs. In the lower range would be bridge clubs, which have structure but no real authority and little protection. Further up the scale would be responsibly run egalitarian religions of the sort that caffiend describes, since the pastor's authority is limited and there is no organized protection. Then come the scouts with their significant authority and significant protection, followed at some remove by the LDS church with its much stronger patterns of obedience and deference to authority. At the high end of the scale would be the Catholic Church and other (are there others?) institutions with extreme notions of authority, great traditions of obedience and trust, and a hierarchy that has been concealing molestation and other crimes for centuries.

Yes, there will be Epsteins. But those are exceptional. Most of the abuse occurs elsewhere, clustered especially in institutions that to one degree or another discount the welfare of children and other vulnerable groups. Moreover, even if a majority of abuse were to occur due to Epsteins, it remains a fact that insouciant organizations increase the prevalence of molestation in other parts of society. Combating the sins of powerful individuals and those of self-centered organizations are two different tasks. Ideally they will be pursued simultaneously but each of which could, and should, be undertaken independently.

In other words, Epstein does not in any way decrease the culpability of the Boy Scouts.